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Thread: Wilson Chandler to Toronto? Forget about it (473)

  1. #421
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    WC has played and been productive for successful/Playoff teams. We don't have a lot of thoses on this team. The fact another playoff team is going after him should say something.
    The point is not that Chandler isn't a good player. The point is whether signing an average SF to a long term, big money contract in the middle of a season makes any sense for a 20-win team that has no elite players and is 2-3 years away from being any good.

    Why can't this wait? There are lots of free agents this offseason. Lots of big names might move and who knows what players might come available via trade. Plus, the draft has a bunch of swing men you can take. There are potentially lots of different solutions to the hole at the SF spot. It doesn't need to be solved RIGHT NOW!!! and it doesn't need to be solved with another cap-killer of a deal.

  2. #422
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I think some members here really overvalue our current roster
    And some really overvalue anyone NOT on TO's roster...

    Totally agreed with Slaw's post above.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  3. #423
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    The point is not that Chandler isn't a good player. The point is whether signing an average SF to a long term, big money contract in the middle of a season makes any sense for a 20-win team that has no elite players and is 2-3 years away from being any good.

    Why can't this wait? There are lots of free agents this offseason. Lots of big names might move and who knows what players might come available via trade. Plus, the draft has a bunch of swing men you can take. There are potentially lots of different solutions to the hole at the SF spot. It doesn't need to be solved RIGHT NOW!!! and it doesn't need to be solved with another cap-killer of a deal.
    The biggest reason this deal is done "right now" is if Colangelo (and to a lesser extent, Stefanski) REALLY likes Chandler, on the assumption that players of Rudy Gay's calibre will never be attainable.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #424
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    The biggest reason this deal is done "right now" is if Colangelo (and to a lesser extent, Stefanski) REALLY likes Chandler, on the assumption that players of Rudy Gay's calibre will never be attainable.
    Or having a solid rotational/starter-quality player to trade in combination with future draft picks and rookie contract players should a player like Gay available.

    A big part of all the Gasol rumours out of LA is having big money ($25-30M in Kobe, $18M in Gasol, and $16M in Bynum) tied up in 3 players. LA appears to be trying to save money but also spread some of Gasol's contract around to other areas of need.

    This is why I would not overly object to over paying for a player like Chandler and Batum. Clearly I'd rather not overpay but since the Raptors are not bogged down by a max contract and are going to be heavily relying on players still on rookie contracts for the next 4 years (JV and 2012) with Bargnani who appears to be a steal at about $10M per year (still not 100% confident the 'new' Bargnani is permanent, but do I ever hope). Hopefully that makes sense. The fear with any signing though is the competitive drive is lost or injuries strike - that would really suck.

  5. #425
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    The biggest reason this deal is done "right now" is if Colangelo (and to a lesser extent, Stefanski) REALLY likes Chandler, on the assumption that players of Rudy Gay's calibre will never be attainable.
    Yeah, I get that. In my initial post I noted that I think there is a real possibility of this happening. It's classic Colangelo. Running as fast as you can to stay in exactly the same place.

    I'm just calling for patience. We just lived through this kind of rebuild in 2006-2009 where it was all about short-term solutions to paper over positional issues (Kapono, O'Neal, Marion, Turk, etc.). Needless to say, that didn't work. Honestly, I want to win. I'd love to win now. But that's not possible. I'd rather try and get a top of the food chain shooter like Barnes or a potentially elite defender with Maggette-like skills in MKG for 4 years on a rookie scale than bust the cap for a complimentary piece to add, what, 4 wins next year to a 20-win team?

  6. #426
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    This is what I like most about signing Chandler. If we move Barbosa to make cap room to sign him, and we pay roughly the same price for him and we get a future started or 6th man out of the deal. I think he is better than Barbosa, due to a more complete game (ability to play good defence and contribute on the offensive side of the ball), and his flexibility to play multiple positions.

    If we draft a SF this year, and he is good enough to start right away you can move Chandler to the 6th man role backing up DeRozan and the SF position. It makes for a tighter, better rotation. To me Barbosa is a roster filler right now, because he isn't part of this teams future. Chandler is 25 years old and has upside, he is still finding his game.

    I really hope we make this move!

  7. #427
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    This is what I like most about signing Chandler. If we move Barbosa to make cap room to sign him, and we pay roughly the same price for him and we get a future started or 6th man out of the deal. I think he is better than Barbosa, due to a more complete game (ability to play good defence and contribute on the offensive side of the ball), and his flexibility to play multiple positions.

    If we draft a SF this year, and he is good enough to start right away you can move Chandler to the 6th man role backing up DeRozan and the SF position. It makes for a tighter, better rotation. To me Barbosa is a roster filler right now, because he isn't part of this teams future. Chandler is 25 years old and has upside, he is still finding his game.

    I really hope we make this move!
    I can't read Chandler's mind, but I'm assuming he won't consider Toronto unless he envisions himself starting, or playing starter's minutes.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #428
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Kidd-Gilchrist just said he'll be back at Kentucky next year. Is that proving signing Chandler would be a good thing?

  9. #429
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The team always has the advantage in restricted free agency - that has never changed - but it is even worse in WC's case at this time.

    However all is not lost for Chandler.
    If Chandler waits until the summer, in my opinion, that hurts Denver and certainly adds leverage to Chandler. They might hold his NBA rights but they can't force him to play. Come this summer they are either going to lose him or sign him to a contract for more than they wanted - all the while missing a player that could help them make the playoffs and go beyond round 1 this year.


    No quite. If Chandler does not sign or play with Denver (say goes to Italy or...) next year he REMAINS RFA. The only advantage for To then is that they will have more cap room. Also Denver DOES NOT want him to sign just the remainder of season & become UFA next summer.
    What happens if he insists on playing out the rest of the season or willing to accept theit qualifying offer?
    I thing the likeliest scenario is that To send a player (BC deems expendable-JJ?) to Denver for say 2nd rounder, then To signs WC between 6-8 mil & Denver lets him go.
    Last edited by Mapko; Wed Feb 29th, 2012 at 03:34 PM.

  10. #430
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mapko wrote: View Post
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The team always has the advantage in restricted free agency - that has never changed - but it is even worse in WC's case at this time.

    However all is not lost for Chandler.
    If Chandler waits until the summer, in my opinion, that hurts Denver and certainly adds leverage to Chandler. They might hold his NBA rights but they can't force him to play. Come this summer they are either going to lose him or sign him to a contract for more than they wanted - all the while missing a player that could help them make the playoffs and go beyond round 1 this year.
    No quite. If Chandler does not sign or play with Denver (say goes to Italy or...) next year he REMAINS RFA. The only advantage for To then is that they will have more cap room. Also Denver DOES NOT want him to sign just the remainder of season & become UFA next summer.
    What happens if he insists on playing out the rest of the season or willing to accept theit qualifying offer?
    I thing the likeliest scenario is that To send a player (BC deems expendable-JJ?) to Denver for say 2nd rounder, then To signs WC between 6-8 mil & Denver lets him go.

    Of course, he remains a RFA. However his advantage comes in that there will be plenty more teams with money to spend than just Toronto, Indiana, Sacramento, and Cleveland. If you look through here you'll see there are a lot of teams heading in to 2012-13 with cap space this summer.

    Also, the qualifying offer is no longer available to Chandler. Chandler has no choice regarding playing for just the remainder of this year with Denver. It is 100% Denver's decision and, like you said, they are not willing to go that route - supposedly.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Feb 28th, 2012 at 05:43 PM.

  11. #431
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    Signing Chandler now has 2 major advantages:
    1. The only other 3 that will be available in the summer may be Nicolas Batum. I am not convinced he is significantly better than Chandler (will likely be more expensive & since he is playing 2 Portland might be more likely to resign him as 2). Others are either not in same category or make too much money (Eg. Rudy Gay -and Memphis will not let him go for a TPE);
    2. More importantly it allow us to use our HIGH first rounder for: either a very solid back up, or a combo 2,3 like Chandler OR trade that pick with say Jose for Rondo (?) or Demar & first for Harden (maybe I am dreaming, but how many Max contracts can OKC handle?). That IMO would be solid playoff team.

  12. #432
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Ryan Wolstat ‏ @WolstatSun
    A few Raptor tidbits coming later tonight once I gather a bit more intel ... Will say sources believe Chandler to TO highly unlikely by Thrs

    Ryan Wolstat ‏ @WolstatSun
    Chandler to Raptors in summer could still happen but sources say that's also unlikely unless pricetag shrinks fair bit.

    This should be relief for many Raps fans on many fronts:

    1) no chance of subtracting pin balls from the drum,

    2) unwilling to overpay.

  13. #433
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    This should be relief for many Raps fans on many fronts:

    1) no chance of subtracting pin balls from the drum,

    2) unwilling to overpay.


    happy for number 2. sadface for no chandler though

  14. #434
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Shucks, I was hoping Chandler would come over this week.

    I was looking into how we could keep James Johnson and Wilson Chandler both in the starting line up and came across this:

    http://fromthebaseline.com/home-main...ng-the-2-guard

    A tidbit

    “I feel I have a height advantage playing the two guard over a lot of 2 guards in this league… I feel good about playing the 2 guard. The 2 guard is good for me. I’m confident in that. My strength and height helps me play the 2 guard. Maybe only to the exception of Kobe and D-Wade. For the most part I have the advantage against most 2 guards.” –Wilson Chandler
    Written in 2010 when he was with the knicks. I kind of like Chandler at the two and James Johnson at the three. It gives us a massive size and length advantage on the wings. It also enables us to keep Kleiza, who I really would hate to lose.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  15. #435
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Shucks, I was hoping Chandler would come over this week.

    I was looking into how we could keep James Johnson and Wilson Chandler both in the starting line up and came across this:

    http://fromthebaseline.com/home-main...ng-the-2-guard

    A tidbit



    Written in 2010 when he was with the knicks. I kind of like Chandler at the two and James Johnson at the three. It gives us a massive size and length advantage on the wings. It also enables us to keep Kleiza, who I really would hate to lose.
    I'd like Chandler. But not replacing Demar to a lesser role where he can't develop.

  16. #436
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    If the Raptors have to get the offer to him tomorrow then don't they need to have a trade worked out today so there is time for the league to review and approve it? Making a trade tomorrow would be living on the edge in terms of meeting the deadlines.

  17. #437
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I'd like Chandler. But not replacing Demar to a lesser role where he can't develop.
    Meh, right now I'm higher on Johnson than Derozen. If defense is key than Chandler and JJ on the wings is a very solid set up.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  18. #438
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Phew, future mediocrity (for the time being) averted. I still have no idea what you guys seen in Wilson Chandler.

  19. #439
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Phew, future mediocrity (for the time being) averted. I still have no idea what you guys seen in Wilson Chandler.
    I can't speak for anyone else but I see a versatile, 2-way, 24 year old NBA starter. He is not your 1st or 2nd option (maybe not even 3rd) but he can play SG and SF on O and guard 2, 3, and 4 on D. He is the epitome of a glue guy and he is, overall, better than anything currently on the roster. If you look around the league at the contracts for wings, $7-8M would not be obscene and $5-6M would be a steal.

    Just letting you in on what I see - obviously doesn't make it fact.

  20. #440
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I can't speak for anyone else but I see a versatile, 2-way, 24 year old NBA starter. He is not your 1st or 2nd option (maybe not even 3rd) but he can play SG and SF on O and guard 2, 3, and 4 on D. He is the epitome of a glue guy and he is, overall, better than anything currently on the roster. If you look around the league at the contracts for wings, $7-8M would not be obscene and $5-6M would be a steal.

    Just letting you in on what I see - obviously doesn't make it fact.
    Agreed. I'm more surprised when people say they DON'T see much in Chandler...
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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