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Thread: Wilson Chandler to Toronto? Forget about it (473)

  1. #81
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    nah, starters minutes is when you play 80+ minutes on a back2back coming off a leg injury.
    Actually, I believe those are called 'Kobe Minutes'.
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    ok thank you. and i assume that the tpe must cover the entire cost of the player then, and the normal trade rules on salaries don't apply? because la' is 8.9 million and i think they can't add a player to even it out as well right?
    What makes the Calderon to LA transaction even more difficult is the "trade kicker" or bonus of 10% in his contract. He can waive this but thats a lot of dinero at his salary.

  3. #83
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default I'm a little late getting to the party but here are a few thoughts:

    Both Chandler and Batum are highly talented players with the ability to perform on both ends of the court. Both would fit in well with what the Raptors are trying to build. Both are very young, Batum being a year younger. If Chandler looks to get his money right now and bypass summer free agency he's not going to have as many bidders. What that means to me is that the Raptors are more likely to get him at a fair price, instead of what a market with lots of money to burn dictates. Timing is everything. My vote is with Chandler because he will be the more economical option and the level of talent between both is very comparable.
    Last edited by Apollo; Tue Jan 31st, 2012 at 09:34 AM. Reason: .

  4. #84
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    ok thank you. and i assume that the tpe must cover the entire cost of the player then, and the normal trade rules on salaries don't apply? because la' is 8.9 million and i think they can't add a player to even it out as well right?
    Very good questions man, as often posters will just assume they can combine or gloss over details like rules. Impressed that you are taking the opportunity to learn and apply.

  5. #85
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    For all those saying Batum hasn't had Starters Minutes yet: He played 31.5 minutes per game, Starting 67 games in 2010-2011.
    Thats "Starters Minutes" if you ask me.

    Not to mention he started in 76 games as a Rookie. Though his minutes weren't high, no one can say this kid hasn't been given a chance to prove whats he's got.
    To me, it's not a question of minutes but a question of variability.

    Wilson Chandler's numbers were very consistent with some small incremental progress every year. While I do not suggest he has reached his ceiling, I suspect he is close to it.

    Nicolas Batum's shooting percentages are all over the place, with averages that are higher than Chandler's and high numbers which are much higher than Chandler's. His norm has yet to be established with a high degree of confidence and thus, if I was gambling, I might take a chance his norm will be close enough to his historical high numbers.

    In other words, I think Wilson Chandler is the safe player while Nicolas Batum is still an enigma.

  6. #86
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post

    In other words, I think Wilson Chandler is the safe player while Nicolas Batum is still an enigma.
    this is why you go chandler. you know what you are getting. next year we will have two "enigmas" already if not 3. bigV, first rounder/second rounder. i would think the coach would want something or someone he can rely on night in and night out to stabilize the rookies he will need to integrate into the team

  7. #87
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    this is why you go chandler. you know what you are getting. next year we will have two "enigmas" already if not 3. bigV, first rounder/second rounder. i would think the coach would want something or someone he can rely on night in and night out to stabilize the rookies he will need to integrate into the team
    There is also only a year and 5 months between them in terms of age.

    I think Chandler can be had for much less than Batum and Portland will match any reasonable offer to him.

  8. #88
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Yeah, the Blazers are much better off matching and figuring out how to make it work via trades later. They certainly cleared some tax burden by amnestying Roy and so there is some wiggle room to be utilized there.

  9. #89
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    According to ESPN (sorry, the link is an ESPN Insider page), Batum is undergoing an MRI today, after injuring his knee. Could be a bump to Chandler's value.

  10. #90
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    They hand out MRI's like candy in this day in age. Batum said he thought he twisted it and he'll be ok but then again you never know.

  11. #91
    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    I would prefer Chandler. Only if we sign him this season because we probably could get him for a reasonable price. He's a proven player, that's versatile, and consistent. He might not be an all-star but we are not paying all-star money for him. He would be a huge upgrade over our 3's and if we draft a 3 this year (and they become elite) he can be moved to a sixth man role playing both the 2 and 3.

  12. #92
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    this is why you go chandler. you know what you are getting. next year we will have two "enigmas" already if not 3. bigV, first rounder/second rounder. i would think the coach would want something or someone he can rely on night in and night out to stabilize the rookies he will need to integrate into the team
    Nicolas Batum is already a good player (better than Wilson Chandler on average) but his norm is yet unknown. He is an enigma in that sense.

    Nicolas Batum has averaged 53.4% shooting from 2-point land and 36.9% shooting from 3-point land so far in his career but with wild swings from year to year. These numbers compare very favorably to Wilson Chandler's numbers, 49.6% (2-point) and 32.4% (3-point).

    Nicolas Batum would provide the Raptors with a serious 3-point threat and create spacing for his teammates, more so than Wilson Chandler.

    If the Raptors sign Wilson Chandler to a reasonable contract, I have no problem with it as he is an average starter and a significant upgrade over what we currently have. I don't view WC as an impact player but neither would I see the small forward position as one of weakness anymore.

    I believe there is a high enough probability Nicolas Batum will be significantly better than Wilson Chandler to take a flyer on NB at the right price. I think the Raptors should first try to acquire WC at a reasonable price before determining what is the right price for NB. What I don't want to see if the Raptors entering a bidding war for WC services, nor for NB if WC ends up with another team.

  13. #93
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    If Batum has no interest in playing for Toronto (there are some reasons to believe this is true), then Chandler it is.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  14. #94
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    What I don't want to see if the Raptors entering a bidding war for WC services, nor for NB if WC ends up with another team.
    I don't think that's likely given the time of year. The Nuggets, Raptors, Jazz, Pacers, Grizzlies, Pistons, and Kings are the only teams who can outright sign the guy. Most of those teams won't be bidding in my opinion. Beyond them you have teams over cap who are willing to do a S&T but I think the advantage is in the Raptors' court because they don't necessarily need to deal with the Nuggets at all to get to Chandler and beyond that Colangelo has a good relationship with their GM, they know each other well. Because of that finding a deal whether it be a regular signing or even S&T should be more straight forward.

    Maybe the Raptors offer up Alabi and Kleiza? One is their GM's former pet project and the other used to be a Nugget and was well like within the organization. If they asked for James Johnson instead of Kleiza that would also work for me although I'd rather avoid that because the Nuggets don't have much leverage beyond matching an offer they don't want to necessarily match.

  15. #95
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    If Batum has no interest in playing for Toronto (there are some reasons to believe this is true), then Chandler it is.
    I could be wrong, but I believe Toronto would have to wait until this off season to even talk to Batum and to gauge his interest in Toronto, where as with Chandler they just need to wait until he comes back from China.

    I don't see Chandler still available by the end of this year. The guy went all the way to China to play just in case the season was cancelled. He likes his pay check. If an offer came around for guaranteed money I think he takes that over being a rental to a contender for a couple of months, IMO.

  16. #96
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I could be wrong, but I believe Toronto would have to wait until this off season to even talk to Batum
    Correct. Otherwise they're getting fined by the league for tampering.

  17. #97
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't think that's likely given the time of year. The Nuggets, Raptors, Jazz, Pacers, Grizzlies, Pistons, and Kings are the only teams who can outright sign the guy. Most of those teams won't be bidding in my opinion. Beyond them you have teams over cap who are willing to do a S&T but I think the advantage is in the Raptors' court because they don't necessarily need to deal with the Nuggets at all to get to Chandler and beyond that Colangelo has a good relationship with their GM, they know each other well. Because of that finding a deal whether it be a regular signing or even S&T should be more straight forward.

    Maybe the Raptors offer up Alabi and Kleiza? One is their GM's former pet project and the other used to be a Nugget and was well like within the organization. If they asked for James Johnson instead of Kleiza that would also work for me although I'd rather avoid that because the Nuggets don't have much leverage beyond matching an offer they don't want to necessarily match.
    Apollo, I am assuming you used the HoopsHype.com site for the salary numbers. They have not included figures for some extensions from last year (Z-Bo in Memphis for example) and free agent signings (Detroit for example).

    The only teams that could sign him outright for a realistic contract are Sacramento, Toronto, Indiana, and Denver - and even Toronto might not be realistic as they only have $4M at this time.

  18. #98
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't think that's likely given the time of year. The Nuggets, Raptors, Jazz, Pacers, Grizzlies, Pistons, and Kings are the only teams who can outright sign the guy. Most of those teams won't be bidding in my opinion. Beyond them you have teams over cap who are willing to do a S&T but I think the advantage is in the Raptors' court because they don't necessarily need to deal with the Nuggets at all to get to Chandler and beyond that Colangelo has a good relationship with their GM, they know each other well. Because of that finding a deal whether it be a regular signing or even S&T should be more straight forward.

    Maybe the Raptors offer up Alabi and Kleiza? One is their GM's former pet project and the other used to be a Nugget and was well like within the organization. If they asked for James Johnson instead of Kleiza that would also work for me although I'd rather avoid that because the Nuggets don't have much leverage beyond matching an offer they don't want to necessarily match.
    What about Alabi, Forbes, and a TPE?

    I really like Kleiza and they might feel they already have a Kleiza-type player in Harrington.

  19. #99
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Apollo, I am assuming you used the HoopsHype.com site for the salary numbers. They have not included figures for some extensions from last year (Z-Bo in Memphis for example) and free agent signings (Detroit for example).

    The only teams that could sign him outright for a realistic contract are Sacramento, Toronto, Indiana, and Denver - and even Toronto might not be realistic as they only have $4M at this time.
    Yeah, I'm not as diligent as I used to be during fact finding. Thanks for correcting that.

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What about Alabi, Forbes, and a TPE?

    I really like Kleiza and they might feel they already have a Kleiza-type player in Harrington.
    Well let me ask you this. When your forwards are Bargnani, Amir Johnson, Ed Davis, Wilson Chandler, James Johnson and Linas Kleiza, who are the odd men out? What do you do with them? I think it's fair to say that one of Amir or Ed is out of here this summer. If the Raptors land Chandler then I think it would be fair to say one of Johnson or Kleiza are out of here maybe when the trade is made, maybe by the summer.

    The Nuggets could have kept Forbes if they really wanted him but they chose to let him walk.

  20. #100
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Surely, this guy can be replaced.

    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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