Jose Calderon is the most underappreciated Raptor of all time

[Madman]

I was watching the Spurs - Thunder game tonight and saw Tony Parker set the all time franchise record for assists with 4,475. I thought that number was pretty low for such a good PG. So I started looking at Jose's numbers (our franchise leader in assists) and before I go any further, I know Parker is more of scoring first point guard than Jose was/is.

Tony Parker has 4,475 assist in 770 games & 25,406 minutes,
Jose Calderon has 3,179 assistst in 451 games & 12,644 minutes

If you put Jose's assist per minute (which is not guaranteed that he would've continued throughout his career) and add another 10,000 minutes (he'd have to play around 30 minutes per game over 4 seasons, which coincidentally how many more years Parker has experience over Calderon) you could add another 2,514 assists to his total to give him

Jose Calderon around 5,693 assists in 779 games in 22,644 minutes

The thing I find really interesting about this is everyone would agree that over their total time in the NBA the Spurs have been in another category above the Raptors in terms of talent, you would think that Tony Parker would fluke himself into more assists solely based on the level of talent on his team even if he was primarily looking for his shot.

I know most of this post is completely based on nothing and it really isn't meant to be about the numbers but more about how we view Jose. The guy is easily the best point guard this franchise has ever had and yea he is not perfect and can't defend, but if you honestly go back and look at the guys he's played with (which is honestly really just a list of guys not in the NBA anymore) it makes it even more impressive. Hell maybe if he had a Dwayne Casey type coach from the beginning he wouldnt be such an awful defender. There is a thing about the typical Toronto sports fan we hate on the guys we have, but would be dying to have a pass first point guard like this.

***EDIT***

a friend on twitter brought up a good point to me, if you add all those minutes what happens to his turnovers, so taking his turnovers per minute and added those 10,000 minutes, this is what you end up with

Tony Parker has 1,944 Turnovers
Jose Calderon has 772 Turnovers

With 10,000 mins added Jose would have 1,382 TOs, still assist to Turnover ratio of 4 to 1

[Regression]

I applaud his longevity but stats on bad teams are misleading. It's an unfair comparison. Parker is a 3x NBA champion, 1 time Final's MVP and 3 time All-Star, regardless whether he also played alongside Duncan.

Difference:

[albertan_10]

I think you missed the point Regression. It wasn't "calderon is better than Parker," it was "Calderon is a lot better than we give credit for. If Tim Duncan was on our team we'd have won championships by now too. Just saying

[Madman]

I think you missed the point Regression. It wasn't "calderon is better than Parker," it was "Calderon is a lot better than we give credit for. If Tim Duncan was on our team we'd have won championships by now too. Just saying

yea this is what i meant

[Puffer]

A person could do an average scoring efficiency of the Raptors starting five during Jose's career, and then compare his assists total against the totals of other high level pg's versus their teams scoring efficiency. I am sure he would come out very well.

Think how many times this year we have seen him pass to DeRozan, Butler or JJ only to have them air ball it or clank it off the rim. If any of them were shooting with even average %'s for their positions, his assist totals for the year would be through the roof. True for the rest of his career in TO. Bosh was the only player he played with who consistently hit at a high efficiency.

Good thread and nice comparison of numbers with Parker.

[The Fox]

Very good thread and I wholeheartedly agree!

[Red and White]

I applaud his longevity but stats on bad teams are misleading. It's an unfair comparison. Parker is a 3x NBA champion, 1 time Final's MVP and 3 time All-Star, regardless whether he also played alongside Duncan.

People use the whole "good stats on a bad team" wayyyy to much. I can understand the argument of like Mike James having good stats on a bad team (with 20 points a game on a bad raptors team), but the argument is being made in regards to Jose is that Jose has done far better distributing the ball, with far less talent on his team. That is why the whole "good stats on a bad team" does not apply here.

[Miekenstien]

im going to say that the quitter is the most under appreciated raptor of all time. no one brought more spotlight or glory to the raps then the quitter.

i also think that you are confusing "best intrest of the team" with "not appreciating" jose is going to get the biggest ovation of any player coming back to toronto when he is on another team.

as fans we want the team to win. thats why we didnt follow bosh to miami, our hate did. for our team right now jose in another jersey is best.

also on skill alone, i think damon was the best point guard we ever had.

[Hugmenot]

A lot of the posters are of the type "trade X while his value is high" and would trade Jose for a late first round pick given the opportunity. Me, I am tired of the swing for the fences strategy and would prefer the Raptors would make incremental gains.

I think the latter is more likely with Jose on the team than with creating a huge hole at point guard with the hope the draft pick turns into a very good player. Jose can likely play 24+ minutes per game for the next three years and that gives the Raptors some flexibility as to find a replacement.

Assuming they extend him, of course (but not at $10M per year please).

[Nilanka]

I think it's highly unlikely Calderon gets extended. Call it a gut feeling, but I just don't see it happening.

[Miekenstien]

I think it's highly unlikely Calderon gets extended. Call it a gut feeling, but I just don't see it happening.

good gut. i hope bc sends him to a contender so he can play for something. he will say the right things when he is gone and so will the raps. it will a we can still be friends break up i hope.

[ebrian]

Even if this thread is about appreciating Calderon more, in order to push this sentiment forward, wouldn't it be more effective to compare Calderon to another pure point guard, which Tony Parker is not?

[WJF]

Even if this thread is about appreciating Calderon more, in order to push this sentiment forward, wouldn't it be more effective to compare Calderon to another pure point guard, which Tony Parker is not?

The Tony Parker comparison only came up because he just passed Avery Johnson for the most assists all time for the Spurs, not because they play similar.

I think Jose gets a little under-appreciated due to his somewhat fragile body over his tenure as a Raptor. He has played 68 games a season over the last 3, with many of those at not quite 100%. We are a better team when he is on the floor, and he does his job well. Make open shots, hit guys on the pick n roll, and take care of the ball.

[Nilanka]

Jose's biggest problem (at least on the offensive end) is his inability to create his own shot. Without a big man's screen, Jose is essentially useless with the ball in his hands. It's basically the only thing separating Jose from the truly elite pass-first PGs.

[p00ka]

Good stuff, Madman!!!
My opinion, off the top of my humble head, is that he's excessively under-appreciated because some are either:
- stuck on not appreciating someone unless they're at a Steve Nash or Chris Paul level
- or aren't turned on by a guy not playing with the panache of a street baller
- or stuck on criticism being the in thing, or their favourite activity
- or stuck on any piece of criticism of a Raptors player endorsing the "hang BC" faction which they're part of
- or simply happier when whining about something

He hasn't been perfect by any means, but he's been a loyal, hard working, team first pro, that has provided mostly very good court time despite not having much of the same around him most of the time. I think it's a shame he's as under-appreciated as he is, but it's almost sinful that he gets heaped on with so much derision when he has a bad game, which every player has sometimes, even the very best.