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Thread: The Point Guard of the Future and Free Agency

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I think there's a chance. The only thing I don't like about Lin is that he's careless with the ball. But someone's gonna give him a HUGE dollar amount. From a Raptors standpoint, it makes a ton of sense. 23-year old seemingly budding star, and with Toronto having a sizable Asian community, it seems like a nice match.

    Here's a question - not saying that I advocate it, but just throwing it out there... Should Lin continue his meteoric ascension, would you amnesty Jose to sign Jeremy Lin?

    I'm not sure Lin is possible. He's an RFA, so NY has the ability to match any deal. But the most a team can offer Lin is the MLE, which is $5M. NY will use their MLE to sign him. The one thing is that NY does not have his Bird's rights, but in this case it shouldn't matter since NY is not in luxury tax territory.

    (1/2) Lots of confusion out there. To repeat: Lin will be restricted FA. No Bird rights. But Knicks can match any offer.
    http://twitter.com/#!/HowardBeckNYT/...07340946182144

    (2/2) Under "Arenas" rule, no team can offer Lin more than avg player salary, approx $5 mil. Knicks can match using midlevel exception,
    http://twitter.com/#!/HowardBeckNYT/...07476644511745

    Source: @HowardBeckNYT

  2. #22
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Well, right there, at 5 mil per, the Knicks will more than gladly match any offer. It might also squash the Nash to NY rumours.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    2012 simply to not have to over pay for an restricted free agent in 2013. I'd look at someone like Aron Brooks whom is restricted but I wouldn't anticipate a huge bidding war for his services. Good 3 point shooter and has leadership qualities..super quick as well. He might not be the pg of the future for this team, but there shouldn't be too much of a drop off from Jose.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    2012 simply to not have to over pay for an restricted free agent in 2013. I'd look at someone like Aron Brooks whom is restricted but I wouldn't anticipate a huge bidding war for his services. Good 3 point shooter and has leadership qualities..super quick as well. He might not be the pg of the future for this team, but there shouldn't be too much of a drop off from Jose.
    I personally don't like the idea of moving Jose if we're not looking to shore up the PG void long-term. I'd rather keep Jose, than borrow Brooks for 2-3 years, and start the PG search again in 2015.

    The guys on the lists who intrigue me are Augstin, Jennings, Dragic, and to a lesser extent, Beaubois.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #25
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Unless the Raptors can get a lottery pick without taking any salary back, I would NOT trade Calderon this season/offseason.

    I would love to see Calderon playing with Valanciunas, a healthy Bargnani, another lottery pick and hopefully at least one big name free agent addition - that is essentially a completely different (and significantly improved) team than the one we're seeing right now.

    I could even envision Calderon re-signing after next season for a cheaper contract, to continue as the starter for a couple more seasons, since pass-first PG tend to have longevity in this league (ie: Nash, Kidd). Whether we sign a young PG this upcoming offseason or next, or we draft one, I really like the idea of Calderon being the mentor who can eventually make the transition to veteran backup PG.

    Besides, most players on the free agency list fall into one unfavourable category or another:
    - no chance of signing in Toronto because they want to play in a big US market
    - no chance of playing in Toronto because their team will match (or they will just re-sign stright up)
    - bidding war will cause them to be overpaid and hopefully Toronto won't be that unfortunate team
    - player is overrated and/or not a pass-first PG, which is what I'd like the Raptors' PG-of-the-future to be
    - player is too old to be considered long-term solution for Toronto
    - player just isn't that good

    The only player on the list that seems a legit possibility and doesn't fall into one of these unfavourable categories, is Dragic. However, he'll be 26 next season and has not proven he can be a starter, let alone an above-average player who is a true leader on the court. For me, I'd rather look to either the 2012 or 2013 draft, than pin my hopes on Dragic. Stick with Calderon.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 15th, 2012 at 10:44 AM.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Unless the Raptors can get a lottery pick without taking any salary back, I would NOT trade Calderon this season/offseason.

    I would love to see Calderon playing with Valanciunas, a healthy Bargnani, another lottery pick and hopefully at least one big name free agent addition - that is essentially a completely different (and significantly improved) team than the one we're seeing right now.

    I could even envision Calderon re-signing after next season for a cheaper contract, to continue as the starter for a couple more seasons, since pass-first PG tend to have longevity in this league (ie: Nash, Kidd). Whether we sign a young PG this upcoming offseason or next, or we draft one, I really like the idea of Calderon being the mentor who can eventually make the transition to veteran backup PG.

    Besides, most players on the free agency list fall into one unfavourable category or another:
    - no chance of signing in Toronto because they want to play in a big US market
    - no chance of playing in Toronto because their team will match (or they will just re-sign stright up)
    - bidding war will cause them to be overpaid and hopefully Toronto won't be that unfortunate team
    - player is overrated and/or not a pass-first PG, which is what I'd like the Raptors' PG-of-the-future to be
    - player is too old to be considered long-term solution for Toronto
    - player just isn't that good

    The only player on the list that seems a legit possibility and doesn't fall into one of these unfavourable categories, is Dragic. However, he'll be 26 next season and has not proven he can be a starter, let alone an above-average player who is a true leader on the court. For me, I'd rather look to either the 2012 or 2013 draft, than pin my hopes on Dragic. Stick with Calderon.
    I have been an advocate of the raptors trade ideas in the past, but Calderon is proving me wrong. He is playing great basketball, I like Bayless too.

    So, I agree with this post. I would only trade Calderon for a lottery pick and salary relief. The main purpose of any trade of calderon would be to free up salary for a big name FA acquisition and a draft pick.

    The idea of resigning calderon when his contract expires at a lower rate is also a good idea at this point.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Unless you're getting a clear upgrade I wouldn't bother. I wouldn't say guys like Felton or Augustine are clear upgrades. Didn't Felton just lose his starting job?

    Anyways, I'd throw good money at Holliday or Jennings but that's about it. Sincerely doubt the Sixers let Holliday go, but I could see Jennings coming here as a FA after his recent TO comments.

    If Jose gets traded though, then a guy like Felton or Augustine or even Dragic makes sense.

  8. #28
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Felton has struggled in Portland at times this year but I don't think that should discredit his past performances. You could chalk it up to a mix of a new system, virtually no camp and limited practice.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Felton has struggled in Portland at times this year but I don't think that should discredit his past performances. You could chalk it up to a mix of a new system, virtually no camp and limited practice.
    .... and showing up horribly out of shape.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I agree, I'm just saying Felton isn't a upgrade at the position. Why would I amnesty Jose to sign him?

  11. #31
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    .... and showing up horribly out of shape.
    Yeah and again, not a good excuse in this case but the lockout probably had a lot of impact on that point as well. On the bright side, him not working out diligently when there seemed to be little hope for a season probably indirectly lowers his price which is good for a buyer like the Raptors.

    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I agree, I'm just saying Felton isn't a upgrade at the position. Why would I amnesty Jose to sign him?
    Who says Jose needs to be amnestied to sign Felton?
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Feb 15th, 2012 at 11:33 AM. Reason: .

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I personally don't like the idea of moving Jose if we're not looking to shore up the PG void long-term. I'd rather keep Jose, than borrow Brooks for 2-3 years, and start the PG search again in 2015.

    The guys on the lists who intrigue me are Augstin, Jennings, Dragic, and to a lesser extent, Beaubois.
    I completely agree with you, but I was trying to stay within the confines of what the moderator asked for the question to be answered that being it had to be a free agent and not a trade or more importantly a draft pick. I truly beleive that our PG of the future is not on a free agent, but will be drafted either this summer or next. I think Jose would be a great mentor for any young PG, but if the question is about whom out of the two lists we should sign I would say Brooks. He's a great leader, lightning quick, has range from the outside and can be had on the cheap. I would think when he gets back from China where I think he is playing that he might be looking as long a contract as he can get, but hopefully we can sign him to a 2 - 3 year contract to be a back up when Jose leaves and continue mentoring the young PG of the future.

    Between Augustin, Jennings and Dragic I would be interested in Jennings the most, but I don't know if he's worth the investment in the new CBA for a border line All star.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Bargs will be back in a couple weeks and I'm sure we'll play our way out of a top 10 pick. Maybe Marshall will be our PG of the future?

    Edit: wait no draft talk, my bad

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Brooks is the one PG mentioned that I want absolutely nothing to do with. He's a checker and not a very good one at that.

    If we were open to a scoring PG (and I am) i'd go for Beaubois.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Yeah, I see Brooks as a slightly more polished Bayless (another undersized shooting guard).

    The same can be said about Beaubois, but he's young and inexperienced enough, that it might be possible to groom him as a distributor. Regardless, his ball-skills are undeniable.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Brooks is the one PG mentioned that I want absolutely nothing to do with. He's a checker and not a very good one at that.

    If we were open to a scoring PG (and I am) i'd go for Beaubois.
    You're right Brooks is a chucker. Any reason though for favouring Beubois? Seems to bring a lot of the same things to the table.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    The only player on the list that seems a legit possibility and doesn't fall into one of these unfavourable categories, is Dragic. However, he'll be 26 next season and has not proven he can be a starter, let alone an above-average player who is a true leader on the court. For me, I'd rather look to either the 2012 or 2013 draft, than pin my hopes on Dragic. Stick with Calderon.
    I don't see why you can't have both Dragic and Calderon. Dragic won't cost that much, at least not compared to someone like Augustine who is already a starter. You sign him next season and have a chance to evaluate him as the back up to Jose. If you don't see him as the future, Jose is still pretty good and should be for a few more years so you can try to resign and now you have a really good back up in case he gets hurt. If he does work out, you let Jose walk, or trade him, and now you have some nice cap.

    Dragic is only making 2 million right now. Even if you brought that up to 4 or 5 it wouldn't be so bad even if he doesn't work out as the starter. To put it in perspective, Bayless is set to make 4 million next year if we give him the qualifying offer and I put Dragic way above him.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Yeah, I see Brooks as a slightly more polished Bayless (another undersized shooting guard).

    The same can be said about Beaubois, but he's young and inexperienced enough, that it might be possible to groom him as a distributor. Regardless, his ball-skills are undeniable.
    Not to be cheeky, but I seem to recall you were really high on a certain undersized shooting guard in last years draft as well. So I gotta ask in the best Gary Coleman voice I can muster "what you talking about Nilanka"?

  19. #39
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    I don't see why you can't have both Dragic and Calderon. Dragic won't cost that much, at least not compared to someone like Augustine who is already a starter. You sign him next season and have a chance to evaluate him as the back up to Jose. If you don't see him as the future, Jose is still pretty good and should be for a few more years so you can try to resign and now you have a really good back up in case he gets hurt. If he does work out, you let Jose walk, or trade him, and now you have some nice cap.

    Dragic is only making 2 million right now. Even if you brought that up to 4 or 5 it wouldn't be so bad even if he doesn't work out as the starter. To put it in perspective, Bayless is set to make 4 million next year if we give him the qualifying offer and I put Dragic way above him.
    I didn't say you couldn't. In fact, I'd be happy with that pairing. I much prefer Dragic to Bayless.

    My only point was that if the Raptors bring in Dragic next year, he'll be 26. If Calderon continues to be the starter for another one-three seasons, suddenly Dragic won't be the starter until is 27-29 years old. To me, that's not the definition of "point guard of the future". To me, that player needs to be either a guy who's 24-26 now that will come in and start immediately, or a guy who's 19-23 that Calderon can mentor for a couple seasons. Dragic is neither, unless the Raps hand an unproven guy the starting job on a silver platter, in the hopes that he will become a star.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    You're right Brooks is a chucker. Any reason though for favouring Beubois? Seems to bring a lot of the same things to the table.
    Better defender, actually looks to pass sometimes. Higher character.

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