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Thread: Nash Watch: L.A. bound (#1009)

  1. #101
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Steve has already been mentoring Kabongo. Kabongo has commented on how much it means to him and how much it helps.

    You just have to look at Steve's own stats to see what kind of improvement is possible. Going from 42% to 53% FG shooting over 10 years. And from 2/1 to 8/1 assist to TO ratio and from .3 pts/min to .5 pt/min in scoring. It wasn't until his third year he even started playing 30 minutes a game. His physical skills haven't improved that much. He was 22 years, 8n months old when he started playing in the NBA. He didn't peak until he had been in the league for 10 years.

    I think a guy who has improved his game that much, and maintained it at that high a level has something to teach a younger player. Particularly one who has already said he wants to continue to learn from a veteran.
    8/1 assist to turnover ratio? He has the highest turnover ratio of starting pointguards (on hoopdata) and is averaging over 3,5 turnovers a game. An 8/1 assist to turnover ratio would be outerworldly.

  2. #102
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    I said he went from 2/1 to 8/1 over a ten year period, and he did. When he started, he was getting 2 assists to 1 T/O per game. Ten years later he was 11.1 assists to 1.4 T/O per game. 11.1/1.4 gives you 8/1. I simplified the numbers to make the ratio clear. Outerworldly maybe, but those were his numbers and what he accomplished by working at his trade and improving every year.

    I used his career stats so readers of the thread could "...see what kind of improvement is possible." I thought the meaning was clear within the context of that paragraph.

  3. #103
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I said he went from 2/1 to 8/1 over a ten year period, and he did. When he started, he was getting 2 assists to 1 T/O per game. Ten years later he was 11.1 assists to 1.4 T/O per game. 11.1/1.4 gives you 8/1. I simplified the numbers to make the ratio clear. Outerworldly maybe, but those were his numbers and what he accomplished by working at his trade and improving every year.

    I used his career stats so readers of the thread could "...see what kind of improvement is possible." I thought the meaning was clear within the context of that paragraph.
    You simplified the stats by rounding down 3,6 to 1,4. Like I tried to say your stats are wrong. A 8/1 ratio would mean he is a son of Zeus, that should triggered a statcheck I'd think.

  4. #104
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Here is Nash's rating from 82games. As they say "The main components of the 'Simple Ratings' are a production measure (a variant of John Hollinger's PER rating) for a player's own stats versus the counterpart player on the other team while he is on the court, as well as a simple on court/off court plus minus.

    Rating
    MIA James +18.0
    LAC Paul +15.9
    MIA Wade +14.9
    ORL Howard +12.7
    OKC Durant +11.1
    ORL Anderson +10.6
    PHO Nash +10.6

    Nash is tied for 6th in this measure of his effectiveness against opponents, in terms of on court production. How much of a drop off would you expect to see in two years?

    The first Raptor in the list comes in at 53nd place. Calderon comes in at 140. I would suggest that being Canadian might be some draw, but this kind of production is far more important. You might note that I suggest bringing in a young point guard for Nash to groom, and I advocate bringing Calderon back. When three years are done, and his production drops off, other options will be available. So I am targeting a 20-25 year old point guard to grow with the team.

    Maybe go back and read the orignial post, and read Matt's original post.
    Last edited by Puffer; Sun Apr 1st, 2012 at 09:22 PM.

  5. #105
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Actually after going back and reading Matt's original post I see I added very little to his points, other than the thought of a three year contract, with two years being the players option. I think giving Nash the chance to walk away if he doesn't like how things are going would be a key.

    I think I read that he lives in New York, so he'd be a little closer to home.No big deal, but no jet lag, no time difference for phone calls if true.

  6. #106
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    The whole idea of Nash is part of the 'hit the ground running' memo BC and Casey have been issuing all season.

    There is no one better in the NBA at running the pick and roll which will be extremely important with JV.
    The guy is year in and year out flirting with 50/40/90 in shooting percentages - extremely rare.
    He makes everyone around him better (the only person Jose has made look good is Amir - but so has Bayless, actually).
    He adds instant credibility around the league.
    He adds instant credibility in the locker room as a 2 time MVP.
    He adds professionalism and a voice for a young team on the importance of diet and training (monkey see, monkey do).
    Statistically, his defense is much better than Calderon's - Bayless too. Put him in Casey's system and maybe he looks good.
    Look at the roster in PHX, yet they are just 1.5 games out of the tough Western Conference playoffs.
    He will not be playing more basketball this summer, he'll be training to survive the rigors of an 82 games season.



    The key to any signing of Nash would be to have a plan moving forward. Personally, I still like the Kabongo idea. It will just have to possibly wait 1 year.


    Also, one thing about Nash is he is an extremely nice guy. Yeah he said he'd play for the HEAT but he also said he'd consider the Knicks. Bottom line is he'll say he'll consider anyone because no doubt he will - he is unrestricted. There are only a handful of teams capable of offering him anything near what he is getting now ($11M). The contenders will be limited to $5M or $3M.

  7. #107
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    ...There are only a handful of teams capable of offering him anything near what he is getting now ($11M). The contenders will be limited to $5M or $3M.
    I think this is key. While the whole idea of playing back in his home country may be attractive, Nash obviously approaches basketball in a business like way. And I don't think you give up on Kabongo. If he knew Nash was coming, and that the Raps were willing to take a shot on him, he would declare.

  8. #108
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    I don't think money is that important to Steve, though. He's a winner and wants to win more than anything else.
    @jerboat

  9. #109
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    You simplified the stats by rounding down 3,6 to 1,4. Like I tried to say your stats are wrong. A 8/1 ratio would mean he is a son of Zeus, that should triggered a statcheck I'd think.
    Ha, you are exactly right. Got my columns mixed up.
    Correct numbers are as you say 3.5/1 in his best year. Guess I mixed him up in my mind with Jose :-)

  10. #110
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Default More from Chisolm

    The Raptors will be in a position to offer Nash more money than basically every contending club that is supposed to be in the running for Nash’s services (like Miami or Los Angeles). The Raptors will also be in a position to offer Nash more than New York, his home town in the summertime. They won’t be in a position to offer more than Phoenix, of course, but Nash has laid out pretty explicit terms for returning to Phoenix that don’t seem to be too realistic for a spendthrift club. That puts Nash onto Toronto’s radar. However, Nash is going to be 39 when the next season starts and has carried a bad back with him since his days in Dallas and eventually advancing age and a bad back are going to severely limit his abilities on the basketball court. While Nash surely has another year left in him to play at a high level, no one can say for sure how high that level will be nor how soon the drop-off will come (nor how steep the drop-off will be).
    The fact is that while Nash’s age and his balky back have been issues that have been swept under the rug by his stunningly effective play that they aren’t issues and that they shouldn’t be considered by fans clamoring to bring Captain Canada back to Canada. Colangelo rolled the dice once on Nash’s back in Phoenix and won out big, but he’d be tempting the fates to try the same thing again this summer.
    http://www.thecheapseats.ca/2012/04/...e-raptors.html
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  11. #111
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I think this is key. While the whole idea of playing back in his home country may be attractive, Nash obviously approaches basketball in a business like way. And I don't think you give up on Kabongo. If he knew Nash was coming, and that the Raps were willing to take a shot on him, he would declare.
    can we get him to sign for us by offering him a coaching role when he decides to hang his boots?

    Barbosa is gone too.

  12. #112
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    My only contention with signing Nash is his ability to keep up defensively with younger guards. But if the Raps have a frontline of JJ, Bargnani and JV, that could potentially hide Nash's defensive liabilities, much like with Jose currently.

    Probably the greatest thing that would happen with Nash in Toronto is him coming out every night and trying to win for his native team. He wont just be playing for wins but for pride as well, and thats something that not every player has. Like Rose's determination to take the Bulls to the next level because he's a chicago native.

    The worst he'd probably be, at his age, IMO, is a version of Jose. Mostly passing, no penetration and shooting open 3s. Not bad.

    He might even give the Raptors a home-country discount.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Wed Apr 4th, 2012 at 11:47 AM.

  13. #113
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    The glaring difference between Calderon and Nash's game, is Nash's ability to create his own shot in short-clock iso situations. Calderon couldn't do so to save his life.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    The glaring difference between Calderon and Nash's game, is Nash's ability to create his own shot in short-clock iso situations. Calderon couldn't do so to save his life.
    +1. Bayless can too...hahahaha

  15. #115
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    +1. Bayless can too...hahahaha
    Yeah, but Bayless will be playing in Tel-Aviv next season
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #116
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    http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/160708

    Nash's closing words ... for year or as a Sun

    Suns guard Steve Nash spoke for 10 minutes following the team’s losing finale Wednesday night at US Airways Center. Here is everything he said:

    On the home fans’ fourth-quarter “We want Steve” chant: "It was obviously amazing to get that type of reception and support. It's very special because it's not something I asked for or imagined. To get that type of spontaneous reaction means it's authentic, the relationship I thought we had. It’s great. It really feels special. The fans have been phenomenal and it's meant a lot to me to play in a city like this for as long as I have and to feel important to the fans and the community. I just feel like a very lucky guy."

    On his emotions entering Wednesday night's finale: “First, I must admit that I’m not the most sentimental person in the world. It’s something I shy away from more than try to soak it up and get emotional. To be honest, I really didn’t get a chance to think about it. If this were to be my last game, it would be a night I’ll remember. It’ll be an important night for me. I didn’t get a lot of moments to put that in perspective because we were playing for our lives last night and coming back in the middle of the night and getting the kids from school and stuff like that, it’s not like you have a lot of time to sit around and put your career in perspective. I just wanted to play hard and go out on a good note for this season.”

    On his next career move: “I’m going to have to obviously sit down and consider my options and maybe predict and evaluate possibilities but I’m in no rush. I think it’s important to take my time and just gain some perspective on what’s happened in my career and what the future may hold. Just a lot of speculation at this point.”

    On what he needs to see from Suns management to stay: “For me, I just want our team to be as competitive as possible if I were to return. We’ll see. There are a lot of factors involved and I’ll get a chance to sit down and evaluate them all at some point.”

    On the chances of him staying in Phoenix: “Honestly, I have no clue. I couldn’t predict. I don’t know what the future holds at this point. And I’m actually OK with that. I think now’s the time to maybe get some distance from it and try to find a clear perspective on where I am. Until I do that, I couldn’t put a number on it or take a guess on what the chances are on whether I’ll be back or not.”

    On his desire to play three more years: “I’d like to play three more years. I’m flexible. I want to see what’s the best situation for me and we’ll see what happens.”

    On the importance of winning: “Winning and being competitive and being part of a good environment, those are the top.”

    On going through this process in 2004: “In a lot of ways, I feel like I’ve done everything before at this stage of my career. This is still a new moment because every moment is unto itself. We could talk all night and maybe I would never give you a straight answer because I don’t really know. I appreciate the interest and I appreciate that people are excited for whatever comes next and also interested in what my future holds. It’s very flattering.”

    On the oddity of having his future up in the air after eight years in Phoenix: “Just the fact that I’m unattached in a way coming out of the NBA season is strange. I’ve been here eight years. It’s flown by. It doesn’t feel like eight years. It’s incredible. The seasons blend into one and sometimes you don’t realize how long of a period it’s been. It is strange.”

    On what he thinks the Suns need: “It depends on your method and philosophy but I think the team could use more playmakers. It depends on your strategy. You could go for bigs. You could go for a consistent 20-a-game scorer. Or you could go for a few more playmakers at different positions. There are different philosophies and different ways to go about it. The team and the club need to really analyze what their philos0phy is moving forward and put a contingency plan together to build the best team. It'll be an interesting period."

    On the job Coach Alvin Gentry did: “I think Alvin was unbelievable this year. If you think about it, Michael Redd was a late signing and hadn’t played for two years. So other than Michael Redd, I think Grant and I are the only guys who had really been NBA starters before. There were quite a few new guys this year too. For Alvin to put all those pieces together, for all our flaws and faults, he put us together. When we were 12-19, he didn’t let us quit. We were 12-19 and we really didn’t have a lot of answers at that point either. It wasn’t like, ‘Hey, we’re going to get better. We’re going to get better at this, that and the other.” It was like, ‘I’m not sure we’re going to get better at any of this stuff but he wouldn’t let us relent. He was phenomenal. I love playing for Alvin. I think he’s a great coach.”

    On how he will remember this season: “This is a rewarding year. This is a positive season. Obviously, I’m used to playing in the playoffs. That’s important to me. We took it about as far as we could this year. It’s inevitable with the change and from some of our flaws, that we weren’t going to have a good start. We needed time. We struggled. The most important thing is the coaches stuck with us and never let us give up and found a way to make the pieces work to be greater than the sum of the parts and here we are with a chance to get in the playoffs and here we are with a chance to get in the playoffs and here we are ending .500, which is pretty fitting. We hung in there. There is reward to be had. It’s not the championship. It’s not the playoffs so we’re disappointed in that. But at the same time, when you look at it, we were greater than the sum of our parts. We had a lot of guys who sacrificed and fought and made this a pretty good year.”

    On his health: “I actually feel pretty good. There’s no question it takes its toll. The NBA season is notoriously rigorous as it is but this year was crazy. From Saturday was 13 games in 19 nights. The fact that we’re going out there and playing at a pretty good clip, a clip that was just about to make the playoffs, is very acceptable. So, personally, I feel encouraged. Maybe with an elongated season and a little bit more rest, I could even play at a higher level.”

    On how he would want to be remembered as a Sun: “I always hope people think of me as a competitor and a great teammate and a winner. If I’m fortunate enough for people to think of me that way as a Sun, then I’m very flattered.”
    Thursday, April 26, 2012 at 12:09 AM

  17. #117
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    After Wednesday’s meeting with the media, Babby’s comments reflected that Nash and the Suns are communicating and on the same plane of thought. Babby said he spoke with Nash after the lockout was lifted, and it was at that when point both parties made the agreement to hold steady for an entire season.

    “I made a commitment to him that we weren’t going to trade him if he wanted to stay,” Babby said. “He was the ideal partner all season long.”

    Now, Nash finally has a decision to make, but Babby said the Suns will be “full participants in that process” of reaching a final verdict.

    After all, the reaction by the Phoenix home crowd in the final game of the year spoke volumes at how important Nash is to the Phoenix community, and as such, the team has every reason to go after their franchise point guard despite his age. Still, the team and the player will need to come to conclusion that their expectations of each other align.

    “We have to go down the road with him and see if we can find a common path, a path that makes sense for him and that makes sense for us,” Babby said.

    "Full participants in that process"

    Sign and trade could be part of that process



    Read more: http://valleyofthesuns.com/#ixzz1touPcl4o
    Last edited by jbml; Thu May 3rd, 2012 at 11:25 AM.

  18. #118
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Yeah unlike our f/a of note (cough) who left and had also promised to be a "full participant" in the process, I am confident Nash will keep his word and if he did leave the Suns will get someone back of value.

  19. #119
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    I don't have the patience to read all that. But it'd be great if we signed Nash (even overpaying). I think he's going end his career on a winning team and the only thing that could make me dislike his choice is if he becomes a Laker.

  20. #120
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I don't know what to think of the Nash to Toronto anymore.

    Any move that brought him here would have to be one of a series of moves.

    It would be tough to have an opinion one way or another without seeing the full picture.

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