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Thread: Nash Watch: L.A. bound (#1009)

  1. #481
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Nash, with Melo, Amare, Chandler and guys like Novak and Shumpert could easily compete for tops in the east. Couple of bounces and they might be in the finals.

    Nets are awful, so agree in that count.

    you are hiring Nash because he is an offensive wizard. Melo kills all offensive movement.

    Nash + Melo = net losses.

    Knicks need a strong defensive PG who can hand the ball over to Melo and stand in the corner to catch and shoot threes.

    Knicks have a better chance at winning a championship if they traded Melo for a bunch of high quality role players and left Amare and Chandler as stars.

  2. #482
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    You're out of your mind if you think you can run the offense through Amare alone. Melo has gained this unfair reputation of being selfish or demanding the ball when the fact is the ball ends up in his hand because he's a natural scorer.

  3. #483
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    to melo this is the most efficient offense

  4. #484
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    You're out of your mind if you think you can run the offense through Amare alone. Melo has gained this unfair reputation of being selfish or demanding the ball when the fact is the ball ends up in his hand because he's a natural scorer.
    Fact is he struggled in a ball movement system. Instead of learning how to play in a team system he elected to make a play that got his coach axed. At least he gets his uncontested now. That seems to be the biggest motivation of a guy who has like a 100'' mural of himself over his mantel in his home.

  5. #485
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Fact is he struggled in a ball movement system. Instead of learning how to play in a team system he elected to make a play that got his coach axed. At least he gets his uncontested now. That seems to be the biggest motivation of a guy who has like a 100'' mural of himself over his mantel in his home.
    I think that should read "...he elected to make NO play FOR his coach, TEAMMATES, FRANCHISE, & FANS..."

  6. #486
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    The downside?
    1) all that cap flexibility/options BC has been bragging about over the past 2 seasons GONE
    2) core players are under 25 Nash does not fit
    3) Nash is not a great defender of the point so why hire Duane Casey?
    4) whatever guard they try to get is not going to develop behind Nash so in a couple years you are back to square 1
    5) for roughly the same money you could get Sessions and Johnny Flynn.
    1) And what else would BC have spent it on? When is the "right" time to bring in solid vets to complement the young players? There's a price to be paid for having the right vets to spur development.
    2) Riiiight, because most successful teams are composed of players all the same age? You're reaching...
    3) Nash is certainly no worse than Calderon, and Jose had a good year on defense under Casey. Some would argue Nash is already better than Jose.
    4) Goran Dragic says "hi". Any backup PG playing behind Steve Nash can't help but improve. He's one of the top-10 offensive point guards in the NBA, ever, and he clearly has no problems being a mentor to younger guys.
    5) Maybe, maybe not, but either way, that would be a step backwards for Toronto, which is saying a lot.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  7. #487
    Raptors Republic Starter Prime's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    1) And what else would BC have spent it on?
    What about Lin? We could pull a Houston and offer him a backloaded deal in upwards of 25M. He's younger, better defensively, and would probably generate more ticket sales than Nash ever could.
    4) Goran Dragic says "hi". Any backup PG playing behind Steve Nash can't help but improve. He's one of the top-10 offensive point guards in the NBA, ever, and he clearly has no problems being a mentor to younger guys.
    Aaron Brooks?

  8. #488
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    Nash is certain to leave Phoenix. They have a returning Aaron Brooks, Goran Dragic and the rookie Marshall.

    The only real competitors we have are Dallas and Brookyln. If D-will signs for cuban and dwight howard stays put we are certain to come out winners.

    NY will risk losing Lin and Novak if they try for Nash. It will make things more interesting as Lin will cost us only 5million/year and will bring in same $$$ . And I don't see NY trading Melo.

  9. #489
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    Nash is certain to leave Phoenix. They have a returning Aaron Brooks, Goran Dragic and the rookie Marshall.

    The only real competitors we have are Dallas and Brookyln. If D-will signs for cuban and dwight howard stays put we are certain to come out winners.

    NY will risk losing Lin and Novak if they try for Nash. It will make things more interesting as Lin will cost us only 5million/year and will bring in same $$$ . And I don't see NY trading Melo.
    Did I miss a signing? Dragic is a free agent.

  10. #490
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Did I miss a signing? Dragic is a free agent.
    sure/

  11. #491
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    What about Lin? We could pull a Houston and offer him a backloaded deal in upwards of 25M. He's younger, better defensively, and would probably generate more ticket sales than Nash ever could.
    Aaron Brooks?
    Lin is highly unproven. The kind of deal to bring him here would be crippling in the backloaded years. And when you say "upwards of 25M", do you mean somwhere around 40M, b/c that's what you'd have to offer to beat out the Knicks. No thank you.

    Brooks actually did improve behind Nash. And then left for China.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  12. #492
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Lin is highly unproven. The kind of deal to bring him here would be crippling in the backloaded years.
    Unproven? The guy singlehandly reignited the Knicks franchise on the world's biggest stage. Even if he doesn't pan out we could use the 15M expiring in the last year as trade bait.
    And when you say "upwards of 25M", do you mean somwhere around 40M, b/c that's what you'd have to offer to beat out the Knicks. No thank you.
    No, the Knicks can only offer up to 24M. Obviously if they plan on signing Nash they would have to forfeit at least 24M in capspace over the next years.
    Brooks actually did improve behind Nash. And then left for China.
    Not significantly, no. But if you want more examples here are some more:
    -Sebastian Telfair
    -Damon Jones
    -Travis Best

  13. #493
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Unproven? The guy singlehandly reignited the Knicks franchise on the world's biggest stage. Even if he doesn't pan out we could use the 15M expiring in the last year as trade bait.
    No, the Knicks can only offer up to 24M. Obviously if they plan on signing Nash they would have to forfeit at least 24M in capspace over the next years.
    Not significantly, no. But if you want more examples here are some more:
    -Sebastian Telfair
    -Damon Jones
    -Travis Best
    Sebastian Telfair actually had a really solid season playing behind Nash. I watches a lot of Suns games, & he could run a team well enough. Telfair's IQ picked up over the last year due to playing behind Nash.

  14. #494
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Sebastian Telfair actually had a really solid season playing behind Nash. I watches a lot of Suns games, & he could run a team well enough. Telfair's IQ picked up over the last year due to playing behind Nash.
    Telfair has always been good at running a team. It's his horrible offensive efficiency that has always defined him. Yes, he did shoot better playing behind Nash, but that was only a handful of games under a up-tempo offense.

  15. #495
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Telfair has always been good at running a team. It's his horrible offensive efficiency that has always defined him. Yes, he did shoot better playing behind Nash, but that was only a handful of games under a up-tempo offense.
    No he hasn't. That's always been his one knock as a player, can he run an NBA team? Know for a fact that guy came straight out of high school, and was a street-baller before coming to the NBA.
    Think on why he's bounced around over and over again.

  16. #496
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    Are we talking about the same person here?

    Telfair, since he came into the league, has been excellent running the drive and dish and otherwise pretty decent playing the PnR/PnP, which is complemented by his slick handles and passing ability.

  17. #497
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Unproven? The guy singlehandly reignited the Knicks franchise on the world's biggest stage. Even if he doesn't pan out we could use the 15M expiring in the last year as trade bait.

    No, the Knicks can only offer up to 24M. Obviously if they plan on signing Nash they would have to forfeit at least 24M in capspace over the next years.
    Depending obviously on the current financial obligations to your team, a heavy backload to poison pill the opposition is a dangerous game to play. I suppose one can do this if the penalties in the new cba does not faze. Re Houston/Azik
    , Chicago is pondering whether to match because of the constraints it places on the outlying years. I assume Houston has calculated its own position in those years. RE the trade bait option to rid yourself of the contract...using Jose as an example, with a much lower salary and his own standing as a player, it does not seem to be an easy thing to do. Azik will have to have at least improved considerably for that option to be taken seriously. In anycase why go thru all this bother just to have him for 2 yrs.

    RE the 24 mill restriction you have implied to the Knicks, my reading is that this is only a restriction because of the cap (luxury tax). Their top 4-5 players would put them over the top. The Knicks can theoretically match any offer as long as the tax is of no concern. If 40 mill were the number 15 for each of the 3rd-4th year is a large gulp with definite consequences on flexibility going forward. This is Jeremy Lin we are discussing not someone coming off even a rookie contract showing a body of work not just in the pros but a significant college resume. As a matter of measure, Dragic would probably command the same 40 over 4 yrs. If given a choice I would take Dragic and the avoidance of salary structure problems.

  18. #498
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Are we talking about the same person here?

    Telfair, since he came into the league, has been excellent running the drive and dish and otherwise pretty decent playing the PnR/PnP, which is complemented by his slick handles and passing ability.
    Yeah, that's why he's been a starting point guard for all these years right?

  19. #499
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Are we talking about the same person here?

    Telfair, since he came into the league, has been excellent running the drive and dish and otherwise pretty decent playing the PnR/PnP, which is complemented by his slick handles and passing ability.
    Yeah, that's why he's been a starting point guard for all these years right?

    Just because he can do what almost every other point guard can do, doesn't mean you can run the team well. If he did all those things well, he would be an all-star and starting over Steve Nash right? Nope. The guy sure has ability, but does it necessarily impact the team's success during a game.

  20. #500
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    From the Chad Ford chat today on ESPN:

    Raptorcity (Toronto)
    What grade would you give Raps draft if they land Nash? I agree on your Ross assessment, he was picked for Nash style

    Chad Ford
    B+. But I'll give the Raptors an off-season A if they land Nash. He will help make them relevant again, I think he'll make Bargnani a much better player. This is a home run for the Raptors at any cost.

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