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Nash Watch: L.A. bound (#1009)

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  • Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors trade their #8, I would strongly consider Bayless/DeMar for Nash/#13. Not sure Phoenix would be up for it. Assuming (big assumption) that #8 went out as part of a deal for Gay, DeRozan could be replaced at #13 if a guy like Lamb fell or Ross, Waiters, or Rivers was selected.
    If we flip #8 for Gay i would be ALL over this. Guys like Ross or Harkless should still be there and would fill out the roster nicely. Ross is a upgrade over Demar imho and i'm extremely intrigued by Harkless' potential. He could be our defensive wing much like George is for the pacers until he's ready to be the man.

    Nash/Machado?/Ouzo
    Ross or Harkless/Forbes
    Gay/JJ/Kleiza
    Bargs/Ed/Amir
    JV/Gray

    is drool worthy. a really nice blend of youth with talent and experience.
    @sweatpantsjer

    Comment


    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      That does sound too easy - no offense!

      Then again you never know with Phoenix. They appear to be the kings of 'settling' in recent years with multi-year, semi-expensive contracts to Childress, Warrick, Frye, and Brown. Now they are reported to have their sights set on Alonzo Gee at 4 years, $16M (now that could easily be his agent trying to up his value but given recent history it seems plausible).

      If Nash is to come to Toronto, I do think Bayless is the key to any deal with him being young (23), talented, eager to start, and a hometown boy. Throw in a guy like Forbes and/or #56 and that could do it. I would not give up any first round picks - this year or future.

      *EDIT*

      If the Raptors trade their #8, I would strongly consider Bayless/DeMar for Nash/#13. Not sure Phoenix would be up for it. Assuming (big assumption) that #8 went out as part of a deal for Gay, DeRozan could be replaced at #13 if a guy like Lamb fell or Ross, Waiters, or Rivers was selected.
      Can S&T be done prior to the July 1st date when free agency begins? If not, then draft picks wouldn't be able to get included in such deals.

      You beat me to the other idea I had, which would be a mutual S&T deal of Nash for Bayless. Again, Bayless would be a straight positional replacement, could finally get his starting shot and would be playing in front of the hometown faithful. Perhaps a 2013 2nd round pick could be included in that deal.

      I agree that I wouldn't give up any 1st round picks, even in a trade-down scenario. I understand Nash's desire to do-right by his former team, but technically he could just sign with Toronto if that's where he wants to go, so there's no reason for Toronto to giveup much in a S&T deal. Bayless and a future 2nd rounder seems fair to me.

      Calderon then becomes an asset to use in another trade, allowing the team to even further improve. Man this is going to be an exciting offseason!

      Comment


      • id probably flip amir for a solid backup PG. nash is going to need to play less minutes than he has in the past and has always been at his best when doing so.
        @sweatpantsjer

        Comment


        • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
          Can S&T be done prior to the July 1st date when free agency begins? If not, then draft picks wouldn't be able to get included in such deals.

          You beat me to the other idea I had, which would be a mutual S&T deal of Nash for Bayless. Again, Bayless would be a straight positional replacement, could finally get his starting shot and would be playing in front of the hometown faithful. Perhaps a 2013 2nd round pick could be included in that deal.

          I agree that I wouldn't give up any 1st round picks, even in a trade-down scenario. I understand Nash's desire to do-right by his former team, but technically he could just sign with Toronto if that's where he wants to go, so there's no reason for Toronto to giveup much in a S&T deal. Bayless and a future 2nd rounder seems fair to me.

          Calderon then becomes an asset to use in another trade, allowing the team to even further improve. Man this is going to be an exciting offseason!
          My dream goal is to land both Gay and Nash. IMO, Bayless would be better off in Memphis, who desperately need a backup PG and a shooter (both of which Bayless could provide). I think Bayless+Amir+JJ+8 for Gay+25 would work there.

          Phoenix has RFA rights on Brooks, and I see them capitalizing on it. For Nash since they won't have as much leverage, I think a trade of Davis+25+37 for Nash+13 could work. Phoenix drops in the lottery but would gain a valuable 2nd rounder (which would be non-guaranteed), and get a serviceable big with upside.

          You could potentially throw in Kleiza or Forbes (or Alabi!) to make the pot sweeter for Phoenix, but again they won't have as much leverage so I wouldn't want to give too much away.

          Comment


          • planetmars wrote: View Post
            My dream goal is to land both Gay and Nash. IMO, Bayless would be better off in Memphis, who desperately need a backup PG and a shooter (both of which Bayless could provide). I think Bayless+Amir+JJ+8 for Gay+25 would work there.

            Phoenix has RFA rights on Brooks, and I see them capitalizing on it. For Nash since they won't have as much leverage, I think a trade of Davis+25+37 for Nash+13 could work. Phoenix drops in the lottery but would gain a valuable 2nd rounder (which would be non-guaranteed), and get a serviceable big with upside.

            You could potentially throw in Kleiza or Forbes (or Alabi!) to make the pot sweeter for Phoenix, but again they won't have as much leverage so I wouldn't want to give too much away.
            My thought about Memphis was to give them DeRozan & Amir & JJ & #8, for Gay & #25. They could then use the #8 pick to pickup their backup PG/scorer (ie: Lillard or Waiters).

            That would then keep the Bayless & future 2nd rounder for Nash available, provided Calderon could be traded elsewhere (or could be part of a multi-team trade with Phoenix) or amnestied, to make room for Nash.

            The Raps would then need to either draft, sign or trade for a starting SG (could be acquired in a multi-team Nash/Calderon trade) to replace DeRozan. Who knows, they could even try to sign Barbosa for vet minimum, as the backup SG.

            C: Valanciunas, ???
            PF: Bargnani, Davis
            SF: Gay, Kleiza
            SG: ???, ???, Forbes
            PG: Nash, ???

            + #25 pick, #37 pick, #56 pick, MLE, Vet Exception, about $7-8M cap space (after Memphis trade and replacing Calderon with Nash)
            Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:17 PM.

            Comment


            • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
              My thought about Memphis was to give them DeRozan & Amir & JJ & #8, for Gay & #25. They could then use the #8 pick to pickup their backup PG/scorer (ie: Lillard or Waiters).

              That would then keep the Bayless & future 2nd rounder for Nash available, provided Calderon could be traded elsewhere (or could be part of a multi-team trade with Phoenix) or amnestied, to make room for Nash.

              The Raps would then need to either draft, sign or trade for a starting SG (could be acquired in a multi-team Nash/Calderon trade) to replace DeRozan. Who knows, they could even try to sign Barbosa for vet minimum, as the backup SG.

              C: Valanciunas, Gray
              PF: Bargnani, Davis
              SF: Gay, Kleiza
              SG: ???, ???, Forbes
              PG: Nash, ???, Uzoh

              + #25 pick, #37 pick, #56 pick, MLE, Vet Exception
              I don't mind trading DeMar but it would leave a pretty big SG hole for us.. I think if Memphis trades Gay they would want to resign Mayo, and as such wouldn't need DeMar. Also the 8th pick could net them a SF who they could use to replace Gay. A guy like PJ3 would work for example. DeMar may be better off in Phoenix, but then I think that's giving too much away to a team that has no leverage.

              I also like the pairing of Nash/Calderon. Calderon would be awesome as our leader of the 2nd unit (and would be happy doing it). He'd then become a great asset to work with at the deadline. Since we don't have a PG of the future, what's better than having two unselfish quarterbacks with high IQ's working with/against each other in practice.

              Comment


              • i'm not really huge on the back end of the first round in this draft
                @sweatpantsjer

                Comment


                • planetmars wrote: View Post
                  I don't mind trading DeMar but it would leave a pretty big SG hole for us.. I think if Memphis trades Gay they would want to resign Mayo, and as such wouldn't need DeMar. Also the 8th pick could net them a SF who they could use to replace Gay. A guy like PJ3 would work for example. DeMar may be better off in Phoenix, but then I think that's giving too much away to a team that has no leverage.

                  I also like the pairing of Nash/Calderon. Calderon would be awesome as our leader of the 2nd unit (and would be happy doing it). He'd then become a great asset to work with at the deadline. Since we don't have a PG of the future, what's better than having two unselfish quarterbacks with high IQ's working with/against each other in practice.
                  I suppose I was thinking that DeRozan could play SF in Memphis. Or, if Mayo really wants to play some PG (I remember reading a week or so ago that he said something to that regard), then perhaps DeRozan could shift between SF/SG with Memphis.

                  I would love a Nash/Calderon PG tandem for Toronto, but I don't see it happening. First, I don't think they could manage both financially, if they want to make any other moves this offseason. Second, I think paying your backup PG $10M is a waste of money and the waste of a tradeable resource (veteran pass-first PG on an expiring contract). Third, it makes more sense to try and find a young PG to mentor behind Calderon/Nash, in attempt to groom him into that PG of the future, rather than go forward with two PG who are both well over 30.

                  Comment


                  • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    Can S&T be done prior to the July 1st date when free agency begins? If not, then draft picks wouldn't be able to get included in such deals.

                    You beat me to the other idea I had, which would be a mutual S&T deal of Nash for Bayless. Again, Bayless would be a straight positional replacement, could finally get his starting shot and would be playing in front of the hometown faithful. Perhaps a 2013 2nd round pick could be included in that deal.

                    I agree that I wouldn't give up any 1st round picks, even in a trade-down scenario. I understand Nash's desire to do-right by his former team, but technically he could just sign with Toronto if that's where he wants to go, so there's no reason for Toronto to giveup much in a S&T deal. Bayless and a future 2nd rounder seems fair to me.

                    Calderon then becomes an asset to use in another trade, allowing the team to even further improve. Man this is going to be an exciting offseason!
                    Sign and trades can't be done until July 1st and cannot be executed until July 11th.

                    Drafted players (i.e. the rights to a drafted player) can be traded after July 1st/July 11th provided they have not signed their contract. Think when the JO/Ford deal went down with Hibbert's rights traded.

                    Comment


                    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      Sign and trades can't be done until July 1st and cannot be executed until July 11th.

                      Drafted players (i.e. the rights to a drafted player) can be traded after July 1st/July 11th provided they have not signed their contract. Think when the JO/Ford deal went down with Hibbert's rights traded.
                      That's what I thought, which made me realized the idea of including a draft pick from this year wouldn't work in any S&T deals for Nash, unless Toronto was essentially picking for Phoenix with a deal already unofficially agreed upon.

                      Comment


                      • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        That's what I thought, which made me realized the idea of including a draft pick from this year wouldn't work in any S&T deals for Nash, unless Toronto was essentially picking for Phoenix with a deal already unofficially agreed upon.
                        Here is an interesting proposition:

                        DD/JB for Nash/13

                        Draft Waiters.

                        Sign Danny Green (MLE?)

                        Nash
                        Green
                        Gay
                        Barg
                        JV

                        with Waiters as 6th man.

                        Comment


                        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          Here is an interesting proposition:

                          DD/JB for Nash/13

                          Draft Waiters.

                          Sign Danny Green (MLE?)

                          Nash
                          Green
                          Gay
                          Barg
                          JV

                          with Waiters as 6th man.
                          Interesting, but I think it would be a hard sell to the Phoenix fans to justify trading away both Nash AND the #13 pick. If (and its a big if) Toronto could get Gay and the #25 pick from Memphis, without having to include DeRozan, then that deal could work if the #25 pick was also sent to Phoenix (DD/JB/#25 for Nash/#13). I guess it comes down to whether Phoenix fans would be more accepting of a true rebuild that starts with DeRozan or the #13 pick... this all would have to get done after the draft as well, so the rookies in question would be known quantities, not just the hope associated with a particular pick #.

                          Plus there's still the small matter of figuring out what to do with Calderon first, in order to free up enough cap space to acquire Nash, especially if this deal goes down after a Memphis deal.
                          Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Jun 4, 2012, 01:14 PM.

                          Comment


                          • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                            Interesting, but I think it would be a hard sell to the Phoenix fans to justify trading away both Nash AND the #13 pick. If (and its a big if) Toronto could get Gay and the #25 pick from Memphis, without having to include DeRozan, then that deal could work if the #25 pick was also sent to Phoenix (DD/JB/#25 for Nash/#13). I guess it comes down to whether Phoenix fans would be more accepting of a true rebuild that starts with DeRozan or the #13 pick...
                            I'd take Bayless and DD over #13 and Alonzo Gee

                            Comment


                            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              Sign and trades can't be done until July 1st and cannot be executed until July 11th.

                              Drafted players (i.e. the rights to a drafted player) can be traded after July 1st/July 11th provided they have not signed their contract. Think when the JO/Ford deal went down with Hibbert's rights traded.

                              Extend and trades would be possible I believe? However there would be a 2 year limitation. The max we could offer would be in the range about 12.2 mil per year a little higher than the 10 being discussed here.

                              Comment


                              • jbml wrote: View Post
                                Extend and trades would be possible I believe? However there would be a 2 year limitation. The max we could offer would be in the range about 12.2 mil per year a little higher than the 10 being discussed here.
                                I do not think an extend and trade is applicable here because there is no player option for next year or time left on the contract.

                                I think there must be time left on the original contract to do an extend and trade.

                                I am not certain though.

                                Comment

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