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Nash Watch: L.A. bound (#1009)

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  • Who is better on D - Nash or Calderon?

    Nash turned 38 in February, is obviously past his prime, and isn’t any better defensively at the point than Jose Calderon (he may even be worse considering Calderon’s defensive improvements this season). Those traits don’t sound like they would normally mesh with a young team that isn’t even sniffing contention yet and is led by a defensive maestro in Dwane Casey.
    And about being possibly a worse defender than Jose Calderon, let’s remember that Dwane Casey seems to have constructed a defensive scheme here (and an impressive one at that) that has already had to adapt to a defensively inept point guard.
    http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog...it/#more-10451

    (I realize neither are great defenders so keep that in mind in this discussion.)

    Stats are not everything but they do not support the claims that Nash is a worse defender than Jose (and Nash did not have a defensive scheme created to cover his weaknesses).

    Nash:
    OppPER per48 minutes: 13.6
    on court point differential: +4.3
    off court point differential: -7.7
    win%: 60.3

    Calderon:
    OppPER per48minutes: 17.8
    on court point differential: -3.7
    off court point differential: -2.7
    win%: 38.5
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu May 10, 2012, 08:58 AM.

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    • LBF wrote: View Post
      I belive I can confirm that rumour as fact.

      As I believe i'm still banned from a certain site and you had an influence on that.
      LBF, I have no pull whatsoever at lululemon.com. You've been deceived.

      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Stats are not everything but they do not support the claims that Nash is a worse defender than Jose (and Nash did not have a defensive scheme created to cover his weaknesses).
      Ignoring the stats and just basing this one what I've seen over the years I am of the belief that Calderon is a better defender. This is the first time I can think of in a long time that I uttered such a phrase. Calderon has almost always played with a horrible defensive supporting cast where as Nash has had the luxury of playing with Raja Bell and Shaun Marion to name a few.

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      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
        ...
        Stats are not everything but they do not support the claims that Nash is a worse defender than Jose (and Nash did not have a defensive scheme created to cover his weaknesses).
        ...
        Not totally correct in my opinion. E.g. Nash has Grant Hill, who is still an excellent defender, covering pointguards on a regular basis.

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        • http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1075531

          NY Knicks forward Amar'e Stoudemire is fired up to bring Steve Nash to Madison Square Garden

          It is believed that the Knicks would have a better chance at signing Nash if his former coach, Mike D’Antoni, was still coaching the Knicks. However, a source close to Nash asked the veteran that same question and Nash responded by saying he isn’t “ruling out anybody at this point.”

          One dark horse team could be the Portland Trail Blazers, the nearest NBA city to Nash’s hometown of Vancouver. Nash has several business interests in Vancouver, including ownership in the Major League Soccer team there, and playing for the Trail Blazers would make sense personally and professionally for him.



          Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...#ixzz1uTKjPLbD
          Last edited by jbml; Thu May 10, 2012, 09:14 AM.

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          • Apollo wrote: View Post
            Ignoring the stats and just basing this one what I've seen over the years I am of the belief that Calderon is a better defender. This is the first time I can think of in a long time that I uttered such a phrase. Calderon has almost always played with a horrible defensive supporting cast where as Nash has had the luxury of playing with Raja Bell and Shaun Marion to name a few.
            The numbers are for 2011-12.

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            • Soft Euro wrote: View Post
              Not totally correct in my opinion. E.g. Nash has Grant Hill, who is still an excellent defender, covering pointguards on a regular basis.
              So then Nash has to guard larger 2 guards?

              The numbers are what they are.

              The Raptors did 'less bad' with Calderon off the floor. The Suns did MUCH worse with Nash off the floor.

              Calderon's opponents had a higher PER than him and above NBA average. Nash's opponents had a lower PER than him and a lower than NBA average.

              Calderon had a much lower win percentage compared to Nash.
              Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu May 10, 2012, 09:51 AM. Reason: clarification

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              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                The numbers are for 2011-12.
                Well the stats certainly suggest Nash is a far superior defender to Calderon this season.

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                • Apollo wrote: View Post
                  Well the stats certainly suggest Nash is a far superior defender to Calderon this season.
                  Right, that should be noted if it wasn't already picked up on. We are looking at just one season - 2011/12.

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                  • Looks can be deceiving I suppose... Maybe Nash is a better defender in general. I don't know, I've always felt Calderon looked more competent but that just might be my biased interpretation...

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                    • Apollo wrote: View Post
                      Looks can be deceiving I suppose... Maybe Nash is a better defender in general. I don't know, I've always felt Calderon looked more competent but that just might be my biased interpretation...
                      Nobody can get down in a stance and look intense like Jose! lol

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                      • If you can't fill the part you better look the part. Touché.

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                        • According to Alex Kennedy (Hoopsworld):

                          Sources say Phoenix will likely offer Steve Nash two years, $20 million. However, I think Nash leaves money on the table to join contender.
                          Nash wants to win now. He has made it clear that he wants to be on a competitive team. Unless the Suns make big changes, I think he leaves.
                          https://twitter.com/#!/AlexKennedyNBA

                          Comment


                          • See the thing is, when you take all factors into consideration, the Raptors will be a highly competitive team next season if Nash were to join. Not only that but he would be the leader of the squad. That might mean a lot to him because he's already said he doesn't want to be like the Glove(without specifically mentioning him). I mean the Raptors will land a good player in the draft and they have another on the way from Europe. With those guys and trade assets like the Johnsons, Davis and Calderon's fat expiring contract the Raptors have enough to totally revamp the roster into a team that is better than what the Knicks have right now.

                            Comment


                            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              So then Nash has to guard larger 2 guards?
                              That Hill defends pointguards that Nash can't handle isn't something I'm making up here ...

                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              The numbers are what they are.

                              The Raptors did 'less worse' with Calderon off the floor. The Suns did MUCH worse with Nash off the floor.

                              Calderon's opponents had a higher PER than him and above NBA average. Nash's opponents had a lower PER than him and a lower than NBA average.

                              Calderon had a much lower win percentage compared to Nash.
                              I am not saying that Nash isn't the better player; no need to argue that point. I'm not even saying that Calderon is or isn't better on defense (I don't have an opinion on that at this moment). All I wanted to say was that Phoenix does have some twists to make the life of Nash easier on defense in reaction to your statement that "Nash did not have a defensive scheme created to cover his weaknesses".

                              To add something: I find Opponent's PER one of the most ambiguous stats. It doesn't even look at who is defending who; if you are a pg, the OppPER is the per of the other pg, period. It's also one of the most noisy stats because of the defense of the whole team.

                              Comment


                              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                                See the thing is, when you take all factors into consideration, the Raptors will be a highly competitive team next season if Nash were to join. Not only that but he would be the leader of the squad. That might mean a lot to him because he's already said he doesn't want to be like the Glove(without specifically mentioning him). I mean the Raptors will land a good player in the draft and they have another on the way from Europe. With those guys and trade assets like the Johnsons, Davis and Calderon's fat expiring contract the Raptors have enough to totally revamp the roster into a team that is better than what the Knicks have right now.
                                For Nash to choose Toronto, all those changes may need to be in place before he makes his decision....which would mean Colangelo needs to get on his horse as soon as July 1 rolls around.

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