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Thread: Nash Watch: L.A. bound (#1009)

  1. #41
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I can't speak for Nash personally, but the sense I get from him is. He would rather earn a championship than air drop in and chase one. It's sort of a cop out on a career to go somewhere in your final years just to get the ring. I don't buy that he would force or ask to be traded to a contender.

  2. #42
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    As for the original idea, a few things would have to happen but I don't think it is crazy. Attempting to sign 3 of the top 5 picks in very strong draft 7 years later would be dream-like and foolish...... ummmm..... nevermind.
    That's just plain silly Matt; you know as well as I did Pat Riley did not plan this 7 years in advance.

    Not only that, but Riley made a big trade for Shaquille O'Neal and the Heat won a championship with Shaq and Wade.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I can't speak for Nash personally, but the sense I get from him is. He would rather earn a championship than air drop in and chase one. It's sort of a cop out on a career to go somewhere in your final years just to get the ring. I don't buy that he would force or ask to be traded to a contender.
    Absolutely but he's not doing it with that roster.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    That's just plain silly Matt; you know as well as I did Pat Riley did not plan this 7 years in advance.

    Not only that, but Riley made a big trade for Shaquille O'Neal and the Heat won a championship with Shaq and Wade.
    I know it was not planned 7 years in advance. I either did a poor job conveying the thought or you misinterpreted the context.

    Even if Riley only conceived the thought 6 months in advance, it was still crazy to think..... crazier to do.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I can't speak for Nash personally, but the sense I get from him is. He would rather earn a championship than air drop in and chase one. It's sort of a cop out on a career to go somewhere in your final years just to get the ring. I don't buy that he would force or ask to be traded to a contender.
    I 100% agree.

    I'm not so certain though once he has earned the right to unrestricted free agency. If he was to leave Phoenix as an UFA, I still think Toronto would have a legit shot given the original points in the first post.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Starter TheR3dMenace's Avatar
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    I want this whole scenario to happen to very badly.

    Nash would take this team to another level, I think the raptors could be top4 in the East next season, and who knows after that. And from what I've seen of Kabongo is that he is a natural leader that players love to play for. He's only going to get better as the quality of targets improve.

    Even if Kabongo isn't an option, I think Nash+Jose would be a pretty deadly duo for next year the way our frontcourt is shaping up. I mean, look how good Nash makes Marcin Gortat and Robin Lopez look. Can you even imagine what it would be like with Bargnani, Jonas and Amir? I would be willing to least roll the dice and see it play out until next years deadline. Jose, like Nash, is always a team-first and loyal guy, and he might be willing to give us a sweetheart deal on contract if it means contending deep in the playoffs. Guys, it's almost exclusively veteran teams (read: old dudes), that are the ones who win championships, often with the aid of some youthful talent and a stud scorer in his prime. If Colangelo and Nash could make this happen, I see this as the exact scenario shaping up for the Raptors in the near future.

    Signing Nash to a 2 year, or even a 3yr, deal doesn't impair the long-term plan.

    Maybe I'm an eternal optimist.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    Great writeup man.
    In there a source mentioned his special psychological makeup--it is this trait that, genuinely, leads me to think that Nash would take to the idea of finishing his career in Toronto just as much as going to a contender. He is the last of a dying breed in the NBA--he's not greedy, money hungry, attention-starved like so many young superstars. He's different.
    I truly believe (as @Matt52 does) that he would enjoy playing in Toronto, because he prides himself in being an ambassador of the game and he knows his presence alone in T.O. would take basketball to new heights in this country. This, arguably, would be more satisfying for him than winning an NBA championship and would create a legacy separate, more meaningful than so many NBA stars before him.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote IROR wrote: View Post
    Great writeup man.
    In there a source mentioned his special psychological makeup--it is this trait that, genuinely, leads me to think that Nash would take to the idea of finishing his career in Toronto just as much as going to a contender. He is the last of a dying breed in the NBA--he's not greedy, money hungry, attention-starved like so many young superstars. He's different.
    I truly believe (as @Matt52 does) that he would enjoy playing in Toronto, because he prides himself in being an ambassador of the game and he knows his presence alone in T.O. would take basketball to new heights in this country. This, arguably, would be more satisfying for him than winning an NBA championship and would create a legacy separate, more meaningful than so many NBA stars before him.
    Thank you.

    I agree with both paragraphs above. I never made that point as clear as you did and it is spot on in my opinion.

  9. #49
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote IROR wrote: View Post
    I truly believe (as @Matt52 does) that he would enjoy playing in Toronto, because he prides himself in being an ambassador of the game and he knows his presence alone in T.O. would take basketball to new heights in this country. This, arguably, would be more satisfying for him than winning an NBA championship and would create a legacy separate, more meaningful than so many NBA stars before him.
    It would be great to have Nash here, but Canada Basketball is ever growing and I don't think him playing for Toronto would be taking basketball to new heights in this country (unless Toronto is a absolute contender and he wins a title in Toronto, that's the only way basketball in this country would be brought to unseen status). If you ask any athlete, they would tell you that they play to win a ring. Nash has made a lot of money in his career where he could sacrifice some cash to chase a title. And he deserves to go out on top. That's just me though.

  10. #50
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    It would be great to have Nash here, but Canada Basketball is ever growing and I don't think him playing for Toronto would be taking basketball to new heights in this country (unless Toronto is a absolute contender and he wins a title in Toronto, that's the only way basketball in this country would be brought to unseen status). If you ask any athlete, they would tell you that they play to win a ring. Nash has made a lot of money in his career where he could sacrifice some cash to chase a title. And he deserves to go out on top. That's just me though.
    I agree. There was an interview with Nash about a week ago (sorry, no link) where he mentions that he'd understand being traded, but wouldn't ask to be traded to a contender. For me, reading between the lines, I took that to mean that he'd badly love to win a championship and knows it won't happen in Phoenix, but doesn't want to tarnish his character/reputation of being a stand-up guy/player/teammate/etc... He's just waiting for the Suns' GM to ask him if he'd be ok with trade 'x', so he can say "yes please" and make a run for a ring, without it being him who called for a trade. Some might say it's just semantics, but I think it speaks highly of Nash, while also realizing he's a normal, competitive guy who just wants to win.

    As a free agent, I think he would strongly consider Toronto, only if he felt he could help them make a playoff run. However, given the state of the Raptors (barring any other significant roster upgrades in the meantime), I expect Nash to consider Toronto, before signing with a legit contender to chase that elusive championship (but I highly doubt he'd ever choose the Heat).

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I agree. There was an interview with Nash about a week ago (sorry, no link) where he mentions that he'd understand being traded, but wouldn't ask to be traded to a contender. For me, reading between the lines, I took that to mean that he'd badly love to win a championship and knows it won't happen in Phoenix, but doesn't want to tarnish his character/reputation of being a stand-up guy/player/teammate/etc... He's just waiting for the Suns' GM to ask him if he'd be ok with trade 'x', so he can say "yes please" and make a run for a ring, without it being him who called for a trade. Some might say it's just semantics, but I think it speaks highly of Nash, while also realizing he's a normal, competitive guy who just wants to win.

    As a free agent, I think he would strongly consider Toronto, only if he felt he could help them make a playoff run. However, given the state of the Raptors (barring any other significant roster upgrades in the meantime), I expect Nash to consider Toronto, before signing with a legit contender to chase that elusive championship (but I highly doubt he'd ever choose the Heat).
    The articles you are talking about is linked in the first post.

    Re: bolded - it will be interesting to see what the roster looks like after trade deadline and draft night. Things could be very different come the start of free agency..... or they could be the same

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    in general, i like the idea of nash finishing out his playing days in TO, and then maybe sticking around and learning the coaching (or managerial) ropes here, but it's kinda/sorta selfish to want that, since i want even more for him to have a chance to at least compete for a chip (and not as a 42-yr old hanger-on...though i can't imagine that happening).

    even the most optimistic raptor fan would have to acknowledge that a large number of circumstances would have to turn in the raptors favour for them to be competing for a playoff spot (let alone advancing in the playoffs) by next year...and as much as nash might accelerate the improvement, i'm not sure there's enough time.

    in general, while it would be nice for nash to wind up in TO, and while it does make sense on certain levels, it feels just out of reach. there are all kinds of potential moves that 'make sense' (i.e. miami dealing wade or lbj for howard), but that would never happen for human reasons.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  13. #53
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    I posted about nash to toronto a few months ago..it would probably be the best thing for the raptors and basketball in canada. we'd be set up to compete now and transitioned properly to compete for the foreseeable future.

    Nash is a pro and wont leave phoenix. Since he has openly said he'd play in toronto, sign him after this season is over. I stand by the fact that KEEPING jose and adding nash, even at 10-11 mil/year over 2-3 years, would make our PG duo #1 in the nba, considering how well calderon is playing now. adding kybongo (via mid-late first round pick for barbosa or bayless or any non-core pieces) gives you a CANADIAN PLAYMAKING INSURANCE PLAN incase the older legs of caleron and nash, go down anytime in the season. Furthermore, he's be learning from nash/calderon. what better veteran mentorship could you ask for? In 2-3 years, we have our future starting PG, still on rookie scale. the fact that, as matt mentioned, nash/kybongo already have a nice working relationship with eachother. the kid's already being groomed by one of the best pgs in history. if defense is an issue, dont forget we're getting JV, and by all accounts, hes NBA ready.

    also, figure our offense is very pick n roll oriented. we'll have JV and hopefully a healthy bargs on the receiving ends of passes. Amir is also an above average pick n roll forward who'd benefit from nash being around. also it's too early to give up on Ed davis. the rotation of JV, Bargs, Amir, Ed and Gray is young, experienced, athletic and versatile frontcourt rotation.

    add slashing wings (demar? barnes!) and youve got a forumla for success. i say draft a SF with our own lottery pick this year (BARNES, MKG, robinson -in that order) and the only question mark is at SG with demar derozan. i'd love batum, but money may be an issue. id even throw in our 2013 draft pick to ensure we pick up a 2nd pick this year..this draft is deeper, and were already pretty young..

    (hoopshype/hoopsworld salaries/my est. 2013 salaries in mil)..lemme know if you think im way off. i think it'd be safe to say that salaries would approach 70, which is just outside of the top 8 this year

    PG: nash(11)/calerdon(10.6)/kybongo(2)
    SG:derozan(3.3)/batum(6.5)/forbes (who cares)
    SF: barnes(4)/kleiza(4.6)/JJ(2.8)
    PF/C: jv(2.8)/bargnani(10)/davis(2.2)/amir(6)/gray(1)

    2012-2013: young, athletic players with club friendly contracts, LED BY VETERAN PLAYMAKERS who will get the ball to the right people. i like it!
    Last edited by jpisadummy; Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 10:28 PM.

  14. #54
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    I like a lot of what you are saying JP, although regardless of what side you sit on with the chances of getting Batum, your scenario above could not happen as Nash at $10M would put the team at the cap so no money for Batum. Max would be the mid-level exception at which level Portland would surely match or another team would outbid. All else I would be good with.

  15. #55
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    Default Case closed Matty.

    Well argued. My only concern with Nash is how his poor defense doesn't fit in with the defensive minded model Casey is going for but you bring up some great reasons why it might very well work. I do not think its beyond reasonable to think that Nash could be sold on us being a contender in 2-3 years and if that doesn't work out he'd still ride off into the sunset as up there close to Gretzky as one of the greatest Canadian athletes of all time. He could be Prime Minister at that point if he felt like it. And if we also somehow pulled off drafting Kabongo and Barnes or MKG my head would explode.

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Nash talk

    Nash told the Associated Press that he "definitely would re-sign with the Suns," meaning he would consider the possibility after he becomes a free agent in the off-season.

    But he said if the Suns do not want to pay his worth, they would be doing so "at their own peril."

    On how much longer he will play, Nash said, "When people ask me, I just say I can play a couple more years. I could say three more years. Who knows? Maybe five. I think I could play a long time if I want to."

    Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...#ixzz1nDTwNmWF

    I'm not sure if Nash is down for playing than less for what he feels is fair market value. Maybe playing for a contender might change that but given his outside business interests, Nash might not be willing to sacrifice upwards of $24M to chase a ring.

    We'll see soon.

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Another thought to post 56.

    If Nash wants fair market value, that rules out contenders.

    If Toronto trades enough salary to sign Chandler and leaves enough cap room to sign Nash this summer, he will have more of a shot to win in Toronto than Phoenix.


    Trade Calderon.

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure if Nash is down for playing than less for what he feels is fair market value. Maybe playing for a contender might change that but given his outside business interests, Nash might not be willing to sacrifice upwards of $24M to chase a ring.

    We'll see soon.
    nash doesn't seem like a "i want fair market value" kind of player to me. i know he has always signed for a big pay day but he seems more principled to me. like when he took his stand with team canada. i think that with his next contract and his last contract he will be thinking big picture first. it will either be on the cheap to a contender, but he also doesn't seem like a ring chaser, or to toronto to play in canada. if you think about his legacy it has to be toronto all the way. of course my opinion is slightly slanted but this is the type of person i believe that nash is.

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    nash doesn't seem like a "i want fair market value" kind of player to me. i know he has always signed for a big pay day but he seems more principled to me. like when he took his stand with team canada. i think that with his next contract and his last contract he will be thinking big picture first. it will either be on the cheap to a contender, but he also doesn't seem like a ring chaser, or to toronto to play in canada. if you think about his legacy it has to be toronto all the way. of course my opinion is slightly slanted but this is the type of person i believe that nash is.
    Check post #56.

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Check post #56.
    guess you learn more when you read everything

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