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Thread: Do we really need a 3?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie WestsideRidah's Avatar
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    Clearly we are not a good enough team to overlook any option at the draft save for a 4 or 5. That being said you can place me at the front of the line for the James Johnson fan club, I think he will be a invaluable piece going forward. Casey is a defensive minded coach and JJ seems to be that sort of do it all player that most good teams have and need to be successful. I would rather have a better option at the 2 to relieve the scoring pressure and let JJ do his thing on the other end. However if the BPA come draft time is a 3 I say we grab him because the thing this team needs most is talent, the rest will work itself out.

  2. #22
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    Quote EasyE wrote: View Post
    Think about it this way, who do you want starting in 2 years?

    PG: No current raptor
    SG: No current raptor
    SF: No current raptor
    PF: Andrea Bargnani (or Anthony Davis if we land him)
    C: Jonas Valanciunas
    It's sad but so true. We're building up the likes of Ed and Demar who are not what we make them out to be.

    I may go with Drummond instead of Davis as we'll probably need someone who can bang with the likes of a Zach.R, Bynum, etc and also do some physical punishing on the both ends of the court.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Well maybe he has it the other way around mentally? I don't know, all I can say is he's inconsistent, but young. He's going to have ups and downs.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote EasyE wrote: View Post
    Think about it this way, who do you want starting in 2 years?

    PG: No current raptor
    SG: No current raptor
    SF: No current raptor
    PF: Andrea Bargnani (or Anthony Davis if we land him)
    C: Jonas Valanciunas
    i would trade down to 2 or 3 if we won the lottery. this team needs a sf. i think that drafting and keeping davis just restarts the who we need where unless bargs gets moved for a 3. id rather bargs with mkg or barnes with big V in the middle.


    and i think our needs are 3 *2* 1. we still have jose for a year, it would be great to change him out but not at the expense of lesser talent now at the position. 10 million after he is done next year is enough money to sign a player of great quality.

    i asterixed 2 because i think that demar can and will prove he can play there. with bargs and "hypothetically" barnes on the floor there would of a lot of room on the floor if demar can dribble.

  5. #25
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    Nicolas Batum

  6. #26
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Yes, the Raptors definitely need to jump at the chance to land a stud wing player!

    JJ and Kleiza are backup players, not legit all-around starters. Kleiza is a scorer who can play SF/PF, but is streaky and therefore most effective in short bursts. JJ should not be defending PFs and shouldn't play anything but SF, plus his defense is overrated and offense is horrible. If/when the Raptors become a truly good team, there would be significant matchup benefits to having both JJ & Kleiza available to come off the bench.

    Even DeRozan, who should be able to play SG & SF, is starting to lose his grip on "franchise cornerstone, definite long-term core piece of the starting lineup" role. I sincerely hope he can turn it around and improve his game, to become what we all hoped/expected he would become this season, but I certainly wouldn't let his play influence the draft pick. Again, hopefully DD can turn it around the rest of this season and come into the 2012-2013 season strong.

    At best, the Raptors have 1 legit starting wing and 2 solid backups. At worst, the Raptors have no legit starters and 3 solid backups. Regardless, I hope BC picks the best all around wing available, then deals with any logjams after the draft. For me, I think/hope it comes down to Barnes/MKG with a top-6 pick. I really like Beal as well, but I think the Raps would need to acquire another late lottery pick to have any shot at him (and it would likely mean the end of DeRozan's time in Toronto, if the Raps targeted a SF and SG).

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Re: JJ
    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    his defense is overrated
    Please explain. I don't know how you can overrate the one guy who keeps his own man in check while also negating a number of his teammates' defensive gaffes every game.

    He's no saviour at SF, but defense is the one thing he does at an elite level right now.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  8. #28
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Re: JJ

    Please explain. I don't know how you can overrate the one guy who keeps his own man in check while also negating a number of his teammates' defensive gaffes every game.

    He's no saviour at SF, but defense is the one thing he does at an elite level right now.
    I think JJ is a good defender, but I do think he gets overrated, especially being one of the few decent defenders on what has historically been a terrible defensive team.

    He's a good perimeter defender, but not elite and certainly not a lock-down defender. He still has potential to improve, but he's hardly a 'stopper'. He's also a good help defender, but I find that at times he is too aggressive looking for a block/steal, leaving his man open. As for guarding PFs, I would shudder to think about him doing that any more often than when both teams are going small (but then he's just guarding a fellow SF, just in the '4' spot in the lineup).

    I think he's a good defender and would like him on the team, as I stated. I just don't think he's a legit long-term answer to the starting SF position on the Raptors. I certainly wouldn't bypass drafting Barnes or MKG for the reason of "it's ok, we have JJ at the 3"!!!

    For me, an ideal forward lineup for the Raps next season would be:
    PF: Bargnani, Davis/Amir, Kleiza
    SF: Barnes/MKG, J.Johnson, Kleiza

    It would give Casey lots of lineup flexibility at these positions, and even more flexibility if you consider lineups where more than two of these players could be on the court together (ie: Bargnani playing the 5 in a smaller lineup, Barnes/MKG/JJ playing the 2 in a bigger lineup).
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 05:17 PM.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I think JJ is a good defender, but I do think he gets overrated, especially being one of the few decent defenders on what has historically been a terrible defensive team.

    He's a good perimeter defender, but not elite and certainly not a lock-down defender. He still has potential to improve, but he's hardly a 'stopper'. He's also a good help defender, but I find that at times he is too aggressive looking for a block/steal, leaving his man open. As for guarding PFs, I would shudder to think about him doing that any more often than when both teams are going small (but then he's just guarding a fellow SF, just in the '4' spot in the lineup).

    I think he's a good defender and would like him on the team, as I stated. I just don't think he's a legit long-term answer to the starting SF position on the Raptors. I certainly wouldn't bypass drafting Barnes or MKG for the reason of "it's ok, we have JJ at the 3"!!!

    For me, an ideal forward lineup for the Raps next season would be:
    PF: Bargnani, Davis/Amir, Kleiza
    SF: Barnes/MKG, J.Johnson, Kleiza

    It would give Casey lots of lineup flexibility at these positions, and even more flexibility if you consider lineups where more than two of these players could be on the court together (ie: Bargnani playing the 5 in a smaller lineup, Barnes/MKG/JJ playing the 2 in a bigger lineup).
    No ones saying we shouldn't draft a SF cause of james. But JJ is definitely not overrated, he's a great defender and leads the team in blocks and i think steals too. We are no longer the bad defensive team we once were so you can't say "He's a decent defender on a bad team". He Definitely has the ability to become an elite defender and crack a couple of all defensive teams.

  10. #30
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    Yes...

    We need a top teir 2 or 3(starting to really doubt DD). We have our 4/5 positions all but locked up, there is not a huge crop of PG's in this draft.

    I'm a huge fan of JJ. Love his game, and think he is going be a great 1st off the bench SF, but he has yet to show that he can be the offensive threat we need.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    Nicolas Batum
    JJ, Kleiza/Weems or even DeMar are good options but Batum is the answer.

  12. #32
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    JJ, Kleiza/Weems or even DeMar are good options but Batum is the answer.
    Ideally he would be the answer. I think he's a restricted FA which makes things difficult in acquiring him but you never know.

  13. #33
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    No ones saying we shouldn't draft a SF cause of james. But JJ is definitely not overrated, he's a great defender and leads the team in blocks and i think steals too. We are no longer the bad defensive team we once were so you can't say "He's a decent defender on a bad team". He Definitely has the ability to become an elite defender and crack a couple of all defensive teams.
    I was just clarifying my position and answering questions posed by 'jimmie'. There were some posts earlier in the thread that argued that SF shouldn't be the first priority, because the Raptors already have JJ/LK. My point was that although JJ is a good defender and a player I like and hope stays on the Raptors, none of our current SFs are good enough for me to answer "NO" to the question posed in this thread. My opinion is that YES, the Raptors do need an updgrade at the starting 3 position, via draft, trade or free agency.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I was just clarifying my position and answering questions posed by 'jimmie'. There were some posts earlier in the thread that argued that SF shouldn't be the first priority, because the Raptors already have JJ/LK. My point was that although JJ is a good defender and a player I like and hope stays on the Raptors, none of our current SFs are good enough for me to answer "NO" to the question posed in this thread. My opinion is that YES, the Raptors do need an updgrade at the starting 3 position, via draft, trade or free agency.
    The question was SF as *first* priority. Toronto needs legit starters at 4 positions (PF is set), and I think SF is the one spot where they can "get by" if they don't get a new guy immediately. That was my basis for suggesting SG and PG are higher priorities than SF right now.

    I do agree with you that the starting 3 position is up for grabs, though -- along with starting 1,2, and 5.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  15. #35
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    The question was SF as *first* priority. Toronto needs legit starters at 4 positions (PF is set), and I think SF is the one spot where they can "get by" if they don't get a new guy immediately. That was my basis for suggesting SG and PG are higher priorities than SF right now.

    I do agree with you that the starting 3 position is up for grabs, though -- along with starting 1,2, and 5.
    Fair enough. As for the 5, I don't think it's a huge priority, since JV should be the long-term starter. I'd be happy with JV/Gray at C and DD at SG next season, moreso than I would be with JJ/LK at the 3 - especially when factoring in what will likely be available in the top-6 of the draft.

    Draft - The top priority should be a SF, either Barnes or MKG.
    Trades/FA - The top priority is tough to say right now because we don't know what will happen before the trade deadline or at the draft. Assuming a SF is targeted in the draft, I could see a young pass-first PG, an upgrade at SG and a veteran C (for just 1-2 years until JV is ready for heavy minutes, which could be immediately) being priorities.
    * If the Raps happened to get the 1st overall pick, where a PF is currently projected to be picked, then ALL bets are off!

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter TheR3dMenace's Avatar
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    I like JJ a lot and would like him on the team going forward, but the Raps desperately need a SF that can knock down the 3-ball at a reliable rate. Having a trio of 3pt threats is ideal for the starting line-up that is shaping up next year, and right now there is only 2.

    Casey's offence, as presently constructed, has the SF playing outlet off the the pick and roll.

    I like both Barnes and Batum for this role, although the likelihood of getting either is dwindling. But neither JJ's or MKG's jumper is where it needs to be to readily improve the team in the near future, so I dont know what BC is going to come up with

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