Everything Trade Deadline: Lesson learned today? Don't trust Casey (462)

[golden]

Calderon for a Top 20 pick is not worth it in my opinion.
We'd need something besides the pick coming back our way I'd imagine.

And its not just 'Jose passing to a rookie and making him look good'.
Its Jose being the Consumate Floor Leader that he is and helping transition a young Big Man into the NBA the BEST way possible.
And thats by teaching him on the floor. And Jose does that better than almost anyone in the league.

I'm a big Jose fan, but unfortunately as good as Jose might make JV look on one end of the floor, he will absolutely destroy him on the other end. Know what I mean?

[Mapko]

I voted for 'minor tweak(s)' in the poll.

If the poll was asking for what I think will happen between now and the start of next season, then obviously my vote would have been for 'major change(s). I don't think BC is looking to add an impact player to the core of the team during the season, as it would undermine the goal of building through the 2012 draft (ie: hurt the building *cough* tanking *cough* process).

The most likely moves I see the Raptors making this season, ahead of the trade deadline are all related to dumping non-core pieces for draft picks, cap space and expiring contracts. In other words, nothing significant.


These are the only types of moves I expect to happen before the trade deadline. I wouldn't be suprised if they all happened, nor would I be surprised if only one or even none of them did.
- Barbosa for a late 1st round pick
- Calderon for cap space and mid-late 1st round pick
- Bayless for 2nd round pick
- Davis for early-mid 1st round pick OR Amir for mid-late 1st round pick
- Butler for 2nd round pick (conditional anything or essentially nothing)
- Carter for 2nd round pick (conditional anything or essentially nothing)

I could see BC holding onto assets like Bayless and Amir/Davis, with the intention of turning them (and who knows what else, possibly even DeRozan) into a single, more proven asset (ie: Gay/Mayo from Memphis, Batum, etc...) between the trade deadline and the start of training camp.

A major trade/signing now will not necessarily change our record significantly (See Nets with Deron Williams). However by addressing at least 1 soft point now via trade would allow us to:
1. Use the pick for solid bench;
2. No need to "rush" new player (or Val);
3. Can use 2012 draft choice + existing player(s) for another major signing/trade (Eg Calderon+1st for Parker or Rondo or Mayo or ?????????);
4. IF we make solid improvements (& a lot stars align -Eg Howard to LA or GS) -would this appeal to Deron Williams?
I know I am dreaming, but beats the hell out of planning for 2013 lotery.

[Mapko]

Nash from 5 years ago for sure. Nash in 2012 at the age of 38, not really. Also is it really fair to Nash to put pressure on him (at 38) to lift this team to a playoff team. I think Nash deserves to go to a contender (if he wants to).

[japetas]

However by addressing at least 1 soft point now via trade would allow us to:
3. Can use 2012 draft choice + existing player(s) for another major signing/trade (Eg Calderon+1st for Parker or Rondo or Mayo or ?????????);

I like idea of getting Rondo for Jose and Pick, but about Mayo? Are you sure it's move forward?

[joey_hesketh]

he will absolutely destroy him on the other end. Know what I mean?

Fair. However, its alot easier to have a Defensively Weak guard, when you have a Legitimate Shot Blocker under the basket. Which I consider JV to be. And it's not like Nash is a defensive stopper. Especially at 38.

[joey_hesketh]

Let's see. Nash could pass to Bargs, season % 0.476, Kleiza, season % 0.445, Amir, season % 0.584, JJ, Season % 0.447, Demar, season % 0.462, Ed Davis, season % 0.494, + JV and some young stud from the draft. Doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

Do you really think that Nash would read that list, beside the other potential Rosters, and shudder with Anticipation? Lol

I love my Raps, and LOVE Nash, but I'm just being realistic. I'd rather see him get a Championship.

[Puffer]

Do you really think that Nash would read that list, beside the other potential Rosters, and shudder with Anticipation? Lol

I love my Raps, and LOVE Nash, but I'm just being realistic. I'd rather see him get a Championship.

The big question would be does he want to go to a contender enough to eat $6-$8 million of his own salary and play with the players and environment he would find himself in. He has a lot of options. I have no clue what is most important to him.

[ceez]

So now that we're out of the WC race we shouldn't expect anything to happen today right?

[Matt52]

So now that we're out of the WC race we shouldn't expect anything to happen today right?

The day is not over! It has just begun!


But in all seriousness, I would be shocked if anything happened today.

[ceez]

Somebody wake me up on march 15

[Nilanka]

Calderon for a Top 20 pick is not worth it in my opinion.
We'd need something besides the pick coming back our way I'd imagine.

And its not just 'Jose passing to a rookie and making him look good'.
Its Jose being the Consumate Floor Leader that he is and helping transition a young Big Man into the NBA the BEST way possible.
And thats by teaching him on the floor. And Jose does that better than almost anyone in the league.

Sure, Calderon can help in those areas, but I don't think it's crucial to keep him for those reasons. Valanciunas is talented enough of a player that with or without Calderon, he's going to be a stud in this league (he's progressed this far already playing alongside no-name EuroLeague PGs). Calderon is not an essential part of the Valanciunas equation. I still think a top 20 pick (in a very deep draft) does much more for the Raptors long-term than holding onto Calderon for the sake of developing youth.

Calderon is a great person, a loyal teammate, a consummate professional, and all those rosy stuff, but since this is a business, they're not reasons to hold onto an aging $10 million man in the final year of his contract, while fully knowing he's not the PG of our future. If there are offers of 2012 first round picks involved with Calderon, we need to seriously consider them.

[joey_hesketh]

Sure, Calderon can help in those areas, but I don't think it's crucial to keep him for those reasons. Valanciunas is talented enough of a player that with or without Calderon, he's going to be a stud in this league (he's progressed this far already playing alongside no-name EuroLeague PGs). Calderon is not an essential part of the Valanciunas equation. I still think a top 20 pick (in a very deep draft) does much more for the Raptors long-term than holding onto Calderon for the sake of developing youth.

It's not solely for the sake of developing youth.
You can eventually have too much youth on a team, to the point where it is a detriment to the development of said youth. (See Washington Wizards)

A Top 20 pick could net us a quality player. Or it could net us a complete bust, and then we traded our second best player for nothing. Bummer.

I'm not saying don't trade Jose. And I'm not saying not to trade him for a pick.
What I am saying, is make sure we get the absolute best deal possible for a Guaranteed Starter in the NBA. And a Top 20 pick is NOT the best deal we can get for him. I promise you that.

[Nilanka]

It's not solely for the sake of developing youth.
You can eventually have too much youth on a team, to the point where it is a detriment to the development of said youth. (See Washington Wizards)

A Top 20 pick could net us a quality player. Or it could net us a complete bust, and then we traded our second best player for nothing. Bummer.

I'm not saying don't trade Jose. And I'm not saying not to trade him for a pick.
What I am saying, is make sure we get the absolute best deal possible for a Guaranteed Starter in the NBA. And a Top 20 pick is NOT the best deal we can get for him. I promise you that.

I'm not sure what Calderon's trade value is with GMs around the league, but I do know that it's probably higher now than it was 12 months ago, and my gut tells me it will probably drop 12 months from now. Based on that, I think the next 2 weeks might be our best opportunity to get "top dollar" for Calderon.

If we wait until next season to address Calderon's future in Toronto, I would assume he'd be worth less in trade talks since he'd be considered a rental player. Or if we don't trade him at all next season, we run the risk of losing him to free agency for nothing.

[jimmie]

I'm not sure what Calderon's trade value is with GMs around the league, but I do know that it's probably higher now than it was 12 months ago, and my gut tells me it will probably drop 12 months from now. Based on that, I think the next 2 weeks might be our best opportunity to get "top dollar" for Calderon.

If we wait until next season to address Calderon's future in Toronto, I would assume he'd be worth less in trade talks since he'd be considered a rental player. Or if we don't trade him at all next season, we run the risk of losing him to free agency for nothing.

I don't think his trade value has changed as much as some people think -- 2 years ago he was traded for Chandler and Diaw. I think he's always been undervalued by the Toronto fanbase, but I don't for a second believe that scouts, coaches, and GMs around the league have been similarly undervaluing him. I think most coaches in the NBA would love to have a PG like Calderon helming their offense.

I definitely agree with Joey that he's worth more than a mid/late 1st-rounder, and I think it's pretty obvious that Raptor management feels the same way, or he'd have been gone long ago.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I'm not sure what Calderon's trade value is with GMs around the league, but I do know that it's probably higher now than it was 12 months ago, and my gut tells me it will probably drop 12 months from now. Based on that, I think the next 2 weeks might be our best opportunity to get "top dollar" for Calderon.

If we wait until next season to address Calderon's future in Toronto, I would assume he'd be worth less in trade talks since he'd be considered a rental player. Or if we don't trade him at all next season, we run the risk of losing him to free agency for nothing.

It's a bit of a catch-22 though, since next season a $10M expiring contract could be highly valued. My heart tells me to keep Calderon, but my head says to trade him now for max value with the future in mind.

[Nilanka]

I don't think his trade value has changed as much as some people think -- 2 years ago he was traded for Chandler and Diaw. I think he's always been undervalued by the Toronto fanbase, but I don't for a second believe that scouts, coaches, and GMs around the league have been similarly undervaluing him. I think most coaches in the NBA would love to have a PG like Calderon helming their offense.

I definitely agree with Joey that he's worth more than a mid/late 1st-rounder, and I think it's pretty obvious that Raptor management feels the same way, or he'd have been gone long ago.

I admit Calderon's an asset. But the last thing I want is to lose that asset for nothing next year. Expiring contracts don't always get moved. And a 2012 draft pick seems to be more valuable than a 2013 pick.

Bosh's situation was horribly mishandled by Colangelo (in hindsight, of course). I'd hate to see that happen again.

[joey_hesketh]

I admit Calderon's an asset. But the last thing I want is to lose that asset for nothing next year. Expiring contracts don't always get moved. And a 2012 draft pick seems to be more valuable than a 2013 pick.

Seems to be, but when Scouts the league over are realizing that 2012 is NOT going to be the draft they thought it would, this notion slowly becomes Obsolete.
A sign-and-trade on Joses expired contract is always an option as well. So even once he's expired and we get the Cap Space, we can still capitalize on his leaving. If that is the situation.

To just move him for the sake of moving him will NOT do justice to what Jose means to this team, nor will it do justice to what Jose is as a player.

Bosh's situation was horribly mishandled by Colangelo (in hindsight, of course). I'd hate to see that happen again.

Bosh and Calderons situations can't even be compared, in my opinion.
But yes, in Hindsight, thats VERY easy to say.

[ceez]

man i was so pumped for today and now its just dragging on zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Matt52]

man i was so pumped for today and now its just dragging on zzzzzzzzzzzz

Get ready for 14 more! haha

[Nilanka]

Bosh and Calderons situations can't even be compared, in my opinion.

They're similar in terms of this discussion though. That is, how to deal with a contract at the height of its value.

The difference with Bosh's situation is that I personally believe Colangelo wanted him to re-sign. But in Calderon's case, it seems obvious that Colangelo doesn't see him as our long-term PG.

As for the quality of the draft, I heard about some scouts recent opinions, but I wouldn't call it a league-wide consensus opinion. There is still a TON of college ball left to be played before any concluding statements can be made. But based on the influence of the lockout alone, it's fair to assume that the 2012 draft will be deeper than 2011 and 2013.