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Everything Trade Deadline: Lesson learned today? Don't trust Casey (462)

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  • #76
    most of these seem like draft day or better off season deals. we aren't going to make the playoffs which means the deadline only applies for a couple months. if there is a good deal out there you do it. but, there is no urgency
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    • #77
      LBF wrote: View Post
      most of these seem like draft day or better off season deals. we aren't going to make the playoffs which means the deadline only applies for a couple months. if there is a good deal out there you do it. but, there is no urgency
      Except Barbosa and Bayless are only available for trading prior to Mar. 15th.

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      • #78
        Hugmenot wrote: View Post
        I know, it would certainly be easier to acquire a good player say .... (putting cap on) .... (who does Matt like) .... RUDY GAY if we had additional cap space!

        Rudy Gay would be one of many options if he was available and the Raptors had the cap space along with other enticers like draft picks (not their own) and young players with rookie contracts. Unfortunately you can't pursue the options without the flexibility.

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        • #79
          Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          ... That's why I hope Calderon get traded soon. They'll have no choice to start Bayless and see if his a starter in this league.
          You don't get rid of an asset to see if one of the resources you still have is an asset. You demonstrate to your own satisfaction that you have more of something than you need, THEN you trade it for something you are short of that somebody else has in surplus.

          In the first case you are demonstrating a "if we wish real hard it will be true" mindset. In the second you are being a responsible manager.

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          • #80
            this time last year everyone was saying can't be traded because of his contract, I say trade while he is hot. he doesn't have many more years left. If we dont trade him now then he should retire a raptor period because he has earned it.

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            • #81
              grindhouse wrote: View Post
              this time last year everyone was saying can't be traded because of his contract, I say trade while he is hot. he doesn't have many more years left. If we dont trade him now then he should retire a raptor period because he has earned it.
              Jackpot.

              Sell high, buy low.

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              • #82
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                Jackpot.

                Sell high, buy low.
                Sports management is a cruel game. There is no value put on loyalty to the team...though you would argue he hasn't been loyal because of his participation in international basketball.

                Hard to argue against having two loyalties, to your team (employer) and to your country (obligation to fellow country-men).

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                • #83
                  Puffer wrote: View Post
                  Sports management is a cruel game. There is no value put on loyalty to the team...though you would argue he hasn't been loyal because of his participation in international basketball.

                  Hard to argue against having two loyalties, to your team (employer) and to your country (obligation to fellow country-men).
                  It is cruel. Unfortunately there are no loyalty awards in season or wins added to the win column because of it. I have much respect for Jose for his professionalism in spite of the numerous trade rumours (and near-trades!) that have happened over the last couple of years. However, the Raptors have to do what is in their best interests just like Jose will do what is in his best interests - whether that be playing international ball or signing elsewhere for climate, situation, money, or whatever when he is a free agent.

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                  • #84
                    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=88bru8x

                    Plus we get Milwaukee's 1st round and Charlotte's 2nd round pick

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                    • #85
                      Quirk wrote: View Post
                      http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=88bru8x

                      Plus we get Milwaukee's 1st round and Charlotte's 2nd round pick
                      That's honestly and truly an awful deal for the raps

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                      • #86
                        Quirk wrote: View Post
                        http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=88bru8x

                        Plus we get Milwaukee's 1st round and Charlotte's 2nd round pick
                        People have been talking about giving up one of the power forwards. and you give both PLUS Demar Derozan? AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL. Where in the hell does Boris Diaw have as much potential as Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, and Demar Derozan?!

                        WTF. We receive injury riddled Shaun Livingston, and one dimensional power forward vet Boris Diaw? Milwaukee is probably going to be a high lottery and Charlotte's 2ND rounder is, I guess alright.
                        Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                        • #87
                          Quirk wrote: View Post
                          http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=88bru8x

                          Plus we get Milwaukee's 1st round and Charlotte's 2nd round pick
                          Amir & 2 lottery picks (DeRozan & Davis) for just a 1st and 2nd round pick? Terrible. Not even worth discussing.
                          Besides, it should be in the trade forum.

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                          • #88
                            it sounds soo bad i'm not going to bother looking at it. People seem to think if you have a lot of picks you can get good players. It useless having a shit load of picks if your entire team is going to be unproven rookies with no vet's or 3rd or 4th year players(like Ed and DeMar) who can relate and help the rookies out.

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                            • #89
                              Basically:

                              - Reunite the YoungGunz in Milwaukee (I'm sure Sonny Weems will be happy to join in)
                              - Send davis to be mentored by oakley
                              - Diaw is an expiring contract, cap space.
                              - This is a deep draft, we can get good players with Milwaukee's 1st and Charlotte 2nd.

                              This thread is about "what do you hope the raptors do at the trade deadline."

                              I don't know anything about basketball, but that doesn't mean I don't have ridiculous opinions. So my view on team construction is that you want 5 "pure" starters, meaning 5 player that are prototypical players for their position, then you want 5 versatile players that can give you different looks from the bench, plus 1 pure C and 1 pure PG on the bench.

                              So, the trade above is just what I would like to see by the deadline, because I rally want more picks, and we're not going to get any higher tan Charlotte's 2nd rounder for for barbosa.


                              As such, we have 3 players that can be among my 5 starters: Bargnani, Calderon, JV. That's it. So we need to get two starting quality players, with 2 first rounders and a high 2nd rounder, hopefully we get at least 1, maybe two if somebody like quincy miller falls (and isn't a bust).

                              Now, since Ed Davis, Amir Johnson and DeMar DeRozan are not the starters I'm looking for, there are not the 1 pure c or the 1 pure pg I want on the roster, and not really good candidates for the "versatile" 5 I want on my bench, since the can only really play one positon. Since we also have JJ and Kleiza, I'd rather have them on my bench.

                              So so far, we have these starters
                              5- JV
                              4- Bargnani
                              3- Draft Pick/Free Agent
                              2- Draft Pick/Free Agent
                              1- Calderon

                              On our bench:
                              Aaron Gray, Pure C Back Up
                              Anthony Carter, Pure PG Back Up

                              I can live with the above, though an upgrade would not hurt. Especially given our lack of a "point guard of the future."

                              Our Versatile Backups:
                              JJ (3/4), Kleiza (3/4), Bayless (1/2), Livingston (1/2), Forbes (1/2/3)

                              I'd prefer to exchange one of Bayless, Livingston or Forbes for a 4/5, but otherwise those guys are a great bench.

                              (Edit: I would also be happy to keep Diaw for cheep and send one of Bayless, Livingston, or Forbes out of town or down on the reserves list)

                              That's it, 3 more whoevers as injury insurance: Alabi, Magliore, Some Vet-Min wing or guard,

                              (Edit: I'd actually like to get rid of Alabi too, since I'd prefer vets as reserves that can contribute more in practice and actually play when needed, maybe Denver will give us a 2nd rounder for him?)

                              The trade I propose, plus the expiring contracts of Barbosa and Diaw will give us the picks and cap space to try and sign legitimate starters for the 2 and 3, plus a prospect for our point guard of the future. I'm not so much interested in "equality" in terms of what we're trading and what we're getting, but working to get a better roster over all.

                              I don't think ED, DeRozan and Amir are helping us do that at this time since they do not seem able to be starters on this team, nor do they provide much versatility as back ups. I do however like them, and thus want to trade them to where they can excel, Davis will do well with Coach Oakley (his dad's pal) and the new YoungGunz will totally own Milwaukee, running with Jennings and Bogut. Win-win-win.
                              Last edited by Quirk; Wed Feb 22, 2012, 02:24 PM.

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                              • #90
                                Quirk wrote: View Post
                                Basically:

                                - Reunite the YoungGunz in Milwaukee (I'm sure Sonny Weems will be happy to join in)
                                - Send davis to be mentored by oakley
                                - Diaw is an expiring contract, cap space.
                                - This is a deep draft, we can get good players with Milwaukee's 1st and Charlotte 2nd.

                                This thread is about "what do you hope the raptors do at the trade deadline."

                                I don't know anything about basketball, but that doesn't mean I don't have ridiculous opinions. So my view on team construction is that you want 5 "pure" starters, meaning 5 player that are prototypical players for their position, then you want 5 versatile players that can give you different looks from the bench, plus 1 pure C and 1 pure PG on the bench.

                                So, the trade above is just what I would like to see by the deadline, because I rally want more picks, and we're not going to get any higher tan Charlotte's 2nd rounder for for barbosa.


                                As such, we have 3 players that can be among my 5 starters: Bargnani, Calderone, JV. That's it. So we need to get two starting quality players, with 2 first rounders and a high 2nd rounder, hopefully we get at least 1, maybe two if somebody like quincy miller falls (and isn't a bust).

                                Now, since Ed Davis, Amir Johnson and DeMar DeRozan are not the starters I'm looking for, there are not the 1 pure c or the 1 pure pg I want on the roster, and not really good candidates for the "versatile" 5 I want on my bench, since the can only really play PF. Since we also have JJ and Kleiza, I'd rather have them on my bench.

                                So so far, we have these starters
                                5- JV
                                4- Bargnani
                                3- Draft Pick/Free Agent
                                2- Draft Pick/Free Agent
                                1- Calderone

                                On our bench:
                                Aaron Gray, Pure C Back Up
                                Anthony Carter, Pure PG Back Up

                                I can live with the above, though an upgrade would not hurt. Especially given our lack of a "point guard of the future."

                                Our Versatile Backups:
                                JJ (3/4), Kleiza (3/4), Bayless (1/2), Livingston (1/2), Forbes (1/2/3)

                                I'd prefer to exchange one of Bayless, Livingston or Forbes for a 4/5, but otherwise those guys are a great bench.

                                That's it, 3 more whoevers as injury insurance: Alabi, Magliore, Some Vet-Min wing or guard,

                                The trade I propose, plus the expiring contracts of Barbosa and Diaw will give us the picks and cap space to try and sign legitimate starters for the 2 and 3, plus a prospect for our point guard of the future. I'm not so much interested in "equality" in terms of what we're trading and what we're getting, but working to get a better roster over all.

                                I don't think ED, DeRozan and Amir are helping us do that at this time since they do not seem able to be starters on this team, nor do they provide much versatility as back ups. I do however like them, and thus want to trade them to where they can excel, Davis will do well with Coach Oakley (his dad's pal) and the new YoungGunz will totally own Milwaukee, running with Jennings and Bogut. Win-win-win.
                                I think your approach is sound, but I assume that most people agree that you're severely undervaluing the assets that Toronto is giving up in your deal. DeRozan and Davis were each lottery picks who still have enough talent/upside to warrant at the very least a mid-late 1st round pick in return.

                                If your trade was the best possible trade that BC could make using those 3 players (DeRozan, Davis & Amir), I would MUCH rather just keep those players. And if you're at all familiar with my posts, you'll know that I have been as vocal about trading one of Amir/Davis since the offseason as anybody on here, and am 50-50 on DeRozan, so I think I'm being pretty objective in my valuation.

                                How would Milwaukee's late lottery pick (or they could even sneak into the playoffs, who knows) and Charlotte's early 2nd round pick be guaranteed to wind up being more valuable than DeRozan, Davis and Amir? For the 1st overall pick, maybe, but not for late lottery and 2nd rounder.

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