View Poll Results: As the trade deadline approaches, what do you hope the Raptors do?

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  • Major change(s)

    13 24.07%
  • Minor tweak(s)

    36 66.67%
  • Do nothing until the off season.

    5 9.26%
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Thread: Everything Trade Deadline: Lesson learned today? Don't trust Casey (462)

  1. #321
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Noted. But like i said in my earlier posts, and to what CalgaryRapsFan alluded to, what Calderon does, his style of play fits the Raptors system, and fits the players that are currently, and most likely will be the core of this team. Its not about him being an all-star or what not, but rather what he brings to this team.
    tbihis, I get the impression that you're a "glass half full" kinda guy. It seems like you would always prefer to give the player the benefit of the doubt, until it's proven time and time again that he's not working in Toronto.

    If that isn't a fair assessment, is there anyone on this roster (who plays significant minutes) who you think isn't a good fit today, or in the future?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #322
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Noted. But like i said in my earlier posts, and to what CalgaryRapsFan alluded to, what Calderon does, his style of play fits the Raptors system, and fits the players that are currently, and most likely will be the core of this team. Its not about him being an all-star or what not, but rather what he brings to this team.

    The current Raptors team is a .300 team and won only 22 games last season. I'm not sure we can say that the system or the current players are worth keeping. In terms of what he brings to the team, my argument is the same - .300 and 22 wins last season.


    There has also been the argument that Calderon makes players around him better. I don't agree. ED and DeMar's struggles to start the year certainly weren't alleviated by Calderon. I don't think he makes JJ better nor Barbosa. Kleiza? No. Magloire? No. Bayless? No. Forbes? No one knows. He has certainly made Gray and Amir look good due to being on the receiving end of the pick and roll.


    I think Calderon, overall, is an average NBA PG. He excels at certain things but he struggles at things as well - in the end he is average. If a trade can be had to secure assets for him and create an opportunity to get better sooner, you have to let him go given national team, injury history, and contract.

  3. #323
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    tbihis, I get the impression that you're a "glass half full" kinda guy. It seems like you would always prefer to give the player the benefit of the doubt, until it's proven time and time again that he's not working in Toronto.

    If that isn't a fair assessment, is there anyone on this roster (who plays significant minutes) who you think isn't a good fit today, or in the future?
    I think that is a fair assessment. I like to think in the ways of "it isnt broken, dont fix it" mentality. Correct me if im wrong, but the way you think is, if it worked in the past and not working now, get rid of it, even though it "could" still work given the proper way of using it. And thats exactly what i think of Calderon. Say the Raptors got rid of Bargnani when everybody was voicing their displeasure on his lack of defense, rebounding, etc. And then Bargnani started playing defense and rebounding as what he is doing now, but with a different team? If Calderon is traded based on "potential injury risk", gets replaced with another PG who may or may not work out, where does that leave the Raptors? Let me point out that the Raps have already 2 high picks that have not really panned out according to expectations. There's another pick coming and if Calderon is traded, another new PG will be expected to work with the style of Bargnani, Amir, JJ, Bayless, etc. Thats 4 projects. Plus an FA coming in.

  4. #324
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The current Raptors team is a .300 team and won only 22 games last season. I'm not sure we can say that the system or the current players are worth keeping. In terms of what he brings to the team, my argument is the same - .300 and 22 wins last season.


    There has also been the argument that Calderon makes players around him better. I don't agree. ED and DeMar's struggles to start the year certainly weren't alleviated by Calderon. I don't think he makes JJ better nor Barbosa. Kleiza? No. Magloire? No. Bayless? No. Forbes? No one knows. He has certainly made Gray and Amir look good due to being on the receiving end of the pick and roll.


    I think Calderon, overall, is an average NBA PG. He excels at certain things but he struggles at things as well - in the end he is average. If a trade can be had to secure assets for him and create an opportunity to get better sooner, you have to let him go given national team, injury history, and contract.
    I think you're undervaluing Calderon just a little. If he had teammates who could more consistently knock down the open looks they get when Calderon feeds them the ball throughout the season (ie: Butler, JJ, DD especially), Calderon could easily be averaging 12-15 assists per game.

    I think if he played on a more talented team, he would be viewed as a distributor, along the same line as Kidd and Nash. It's Calderon's ball movement and ability to find the open man that I look at when saying he makes his teammates better... it's up to them to actually convert his passes to baskets though.

    If we could trade Calderon for a 1st round pick that panned out and signed Nash to replace him, I would do it in a heartbeat. I just worry that the more likely scenario is that whatever pick is acquired would wind up being a backup/rotation/project type player at best and the Raps wouldn't be able to sign Nash or any other equivalent PG, leaving fans looking back on the Calderon trade as a very poor move (especially if he goes on to prosper for even 3-5+ more years on a good team).

  5. #325
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The current Raptors team is a .300 team and won only 22 games last season. I'm not sure we can say that the system or the current players are worth keeping. In terms of what he brings to the team, my argument is the same - .300 and 22 wins last season.


    There has also been the argument that Calderon makes players around him better. I don't agree. ED and DeMar's struggles to start the year certainly weren't alleviated by Calderon. I don't think he makes JJ better nor Barbosa. Kleiza? No. Magloire? No. Bayless? No. Forbes? No one knows. He has certainly made Gray and Amir look good due to being on the receiving end of the pick and roll.


    I think Calderon, overall, is an average NBA PG. He excels at certain things but he struggles at things as well - in the end he is average. If a trade can be had to secure assets for him and create an opportunity to get better sooner, you have to let him go given national team, injury history, and contract.
    Well, the team is IMO, in semi-rebuild mode, and i say "semi" because i believe the team is only 2-3 players away from being a playoff team. JV, plus the high draft pick plus the FA, if all goes well, will result in a playoff team.

    Its a .300 team because their number one scoring option has missed 19 games. Theyre a .300 team because the supposed 2nd best scorer is averaging 15pts a game. Theyre a .300 team because the subs (davis, Amir, JJ) are avging less than 10pts a game.

    Does it make you wonder that a team severely lacking in scoring, has a PG who still manages to average close to 10 asts per game? And you dont think he makes this team better? Its not Calderon not able to make Demar or Ed better, its them not making shots.

    Again, i am not saying he is all star material nor is he among the top 5 PGs in the NBA, but IMO, he is the PG that the Raptor's core needs.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Tue Mar 6th, 2012 at 12:02 PM.

  6. #326
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The current Raptors team is a .300 team and won only 22 games last season. I'm not sure we can say that the system or the current players are worth keeping. In terms of what he brings to the team, my argument is the same - .300 and 22 wins last season.


    There has also been the argument that Calderon makes players around him better. I don't agree. ED and DeMar's struggles to start the year certainly weren't alleviated by Calderon. I don't think he makes JJ better nor Barbosa. Kleiza? No. Magloire? No. Bayless? No. Forbes? No one knows. He has certainly made Gray and Amir look good due to being on the receiving end of the pick and roll.


    I think Calderon, overall, is an average NBA PG. He excels at certain things but he struggles at things as well - in the end he is average. If a trade can be had to secure assets for him and create an opportunity to get better sooner, you have to let him go given national team, injury history, and contract.
    Correct me if im wrong, but i think your assessment of Calderon being an average PG (but it seems to me you think of him as more of below average but, thats my opinion) is because of his lack of scoring. I also think thats one Jose's few flaws. His defensive rating has tremendously improved from last season, from 114 to 107. I think he needs to risk more on getting steals tho.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Tue Mar 6th, 2012 at 12:23 PM.

  7. #327
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    I think that is a fair assessment. I like to think in the ways of "it isnt broken, dont fix it" mentality. Correct me if im wrong, but the way you think is, if it worked in the past and not working now, get rid of it, even though it "could" still work given the proper way of using it. And thats exactly what i think of Calderon. Say the Raptors got rid of Bargnani when everybody was voicing their displeasure on his lack of defense, rebounding, etc. And then Bargnani started playing defense and rebounding as what he is doing now, but with a different team? If Calderon is traded based on "potential injury risk", gets replaced with another PG who may or may not work out, where does that leave the Raptors? Let me point out that the Raps have already 2 high picks that have not really panned out according to expectations. There's another pick coming and if Calderon is traded, another new PG will be expected to work with the style of Bargnani, Amir, JJ, Bayless, etc. Thats 4 projects. Plus an FA coming in.
    I try to think of each situation differently, and attempt to factor in the past, the present, contractual obligation, age, and team personnel into the equation. Based on this, I don't think Calderon should be treated like an untouchable. He will soon be past his prime, and I hope he isn't in Toronto when the decline begins.

    Players are like stocks. Sell high, especially if he's not integral...and most especially if we're not winning.

    As for Bargnani, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he's a changed man. But for the sake of argument, if he was traded, and turned into the next Dirk, would it really matter how well he's playing if the Raptors were an improved team from the pieces we received?

    Generally speaking, I like the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mantra. But this team is as broken as one can get, and therefore needs a lot of fixing
    Last edited by Nilanka; Tue Mar 6th, 2012 at 02:03 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #328
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Correct me if im wrong, but i think your assessment of Calderon being an average PG (but it seems to me you think of him as more of below average but, thats my opinion) is because of his lack of scoring. I also think thats one Jose's few flaws. His defensive rating has tremendously improved from last season, from 114 to 107. I think he needs to risk more on getting steals tho.
    You are wrong. I clearly stated I consider Jose to be, overall, average to slightly above average.

  9. #329
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Oh my god make this thread stop

  10. #330
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Jack Armstrong expects the Raptors to sit tight:

    RAPTORS: Only guy that could be moved is Leandro Barbosa if GM Bryan Colangelo gets a great offer for the pending free-agent. He could help a contender. Unless Raps get blown away, I think they sit tight and accumulate cap space for the summer.

    Source

  11. #331
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I could see Kleiza to a contender but yeah I'd be surprised if anything happens

  12. #332
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I could see Kleiza to a contender but yeah I'd be surprised if anything happens
    I don't see there being much interest in Kleiza. His play has been inconsistent, his knee isn't completely healed, and he's not an expiring contract (signed until 2014). Plus, he's a PF in a SF's body.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Thu Mar 8th, 2012 at 09:24 AM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  13. #333
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    no he's a tweener but more leaning towards the 3. He a lights out shooter when you get him going

  14. #334
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Given the source (Peter Vecsey), take this with a giant dump truck of salt.

    Toronto is not shopping Leandro Barbosa, who has fired agent Sam Goldfeder and hired Dan Fegan. But teams certainly are calling about him and Jose Calderon. ...

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knick...#ixzz1oco0OtXy

  15. #335
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Gasol getting traded very soon, according to @lazenby who's apparently knows a ton about the Lakers.

    And so it begins.

  16. #336
    Raptors Republic Rookie Jon_Wade's Avatar
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    Default Apparently Gasol deal going down to Houston

    http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-...rockets-lakers


    Came out just about half hour ago
    Whoever told you skies the limit is looking dumb because I'm 22 and i'm moonwalking on the sun.

  17. #337
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Jon_Wade wrote: View Post
    I think you are jumping the gun. From the link:

    Mar 9, 2012 - The Houston Rockets are talking to the Los Angeles Lakers about the possibility of acquiring forward Pau Gasol, according to Adrian Wojnarowski at Yahoo! Sports. Despite the ongoing dialog between the two teams, no deal is close with the NBA trade deadline less than a week away on March 15.

    Gasol's name has been a constant presence in trade rumors all season. Another report on Friday, this out of LA, says that a Gasol trade is imminent, but it is only a rumor.

    Landing the 31-year old Gasol likely means a team is serious about making an immediate impact. The Rockets are currently looking up at Minnesota for the eighth and final playoff spot in the Western Conference. At 21-19, Houston is not too far out of striking distance for a climb up the standings. San Antonio has the second spot in the Western Conference with a 26-12 record.

    Where there is smoke, there is fire. If Houston does this I think it could mean Calderon getting shipped out because Houston has reportedly said they would not trade Lowry and LA has reportedly said they will only send Gasol out if they get a PG in return. Either scenario would leave each team looking for a PG. BC made comments at the start of the season about Toronto getting involved in trade scenarios of the big rumours at that time (CP3 and Howard). Then there was that rumour at All-Star Weekend about Calderon going to Orlando (which was quickly shot down which to me means there was legitimacy to the rumour).

    For the rumours out there with the Lakers, I don't think Felton, Hinrich, or Sessions are good enough upgrades to swap Scola for Gasol at PF. But then again, all is messed up in Laker land of late so maybe the huge cash savings would be incentive enough.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Mar 9th, 2012 at 04:46 PM.

  18. #338
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Maybe we get Flynn? With Bargs coming back you could start him and not have to worry about winning more games.
    @jerboat

  19. #339
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Maybe we get Flynn? With Bargs coming back you could start him and not have to worry about winning more games.
    This would be a decent trade. LA would use TPE to get Scola.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7cwdccq

    Would also work leaving C.Lee out of the deal. However, I'd expect Toronto to get a late 1st round pick along with Dragic in that case.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=74y4scq
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Mar 9th, 2012 at 05:07 PM.

  20. #340
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    This would be a decent trade. LA would use TPE to get Scola.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7cwdccq

    Would also work leaving C.Lee out of the deal. However, I'd expect Toronto to get a late 1st round pick along with Dragic in that case.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=74y4scq
    I think this deal is very realistic.. I can't remember now but I was thinking of a trade like this a month or so back. If LA wants Lowry (which seems to be their deal breaker), this could work too:

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=72e42mv

    Just move Calderon to Houston, and Lowry to LA. This helps maintain that Gasol/Calderon connection too.

    But either way I'd like to see NY's pick come to us, and possibly one of LA's to help facilitate this deal.

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