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Thread: ESPN: "Lots of teams are calling Toronto about Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani"

  1. #41
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    How does one bad idea justify another (not as) bad idea?
    Maybe my defense is starting to break down and I too am playing the dream game. Or maybe I am starting to rely too much on a rudimentary probabilistic model.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I don't understand the attraction to Ray Felton. Basically, he's been good for half a season under Mike D'Antoni. Look at every other time he wasn't in that situation and you see a back up NBA point guard. And considering he's only make a couple million less than Calderon, it's not a big enough savings there to step as far down as we would be going from Calderon to Felton. He's an expiring contract, but it's not like we have another starting caliber PG just itching to take over as starter. Bayless simply is not that guy.

    I think if we trade Calderon, given our current PG situation, we need either a starting PG in return or a young guy in a similar mold of Bayless. Basically where Bayless has failed, we need someone to replace him and again to see if there's anything there with the new guy. We need another project where we cross our fingers and hope it pans out -- Felton is not that guy.
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  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I don't understand the attraction to Ray Felton. Basically, he's been good for half a season under Mike D'Antoni. Look at every other time he wasn't in that situation and you see a back up NBA point guard. And considering he's only make a couple million less than Calderon, it's not a big enough savings there to step as far down as we would be going from Calderon to Felton. He's an expiring contract, but it's not like we have another starting caliber PG just itching to take over as starter. Bayless simply is not that guy.

    I think if we trade Calderon, given our current PG situation, we need either a starting PG in return or a young guy in a similar mold of Bayless. Basically where Bayless has failed, we need someone to replace him and again to see if there's anything there with the new guy. We need another project where we cross our fingers and hope it pans out -- Felton is not that guy.
    I agree with this, the only thing that felton has over calderon is that he currently plays for a winning team. I do not see how this is a good deal for the raptors. Raptors need to trade calderon, for a back up PG, and a pick/or rotation player.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Jose has been injured after every international competition he has played in for the last 3 years that the season has started on time....Preparing for the Olympics is a great opportunity to stay in game shape. The problem is there is an 82 game season which requires a body to be strong. You can't do this type of training (specifically core, strength, and flexibility training) in season. Preparing for the Olympics with warm up tournaments, exhibition games, and the Olympics itself is like another season with another 20 games added in July and August.
    I'm thinking this year might be different. There is no doubt that Rubio will be getting the lions share of the minutes. With a program from Alex McKechnie and lower usage, I think the chance of injury goes down.

    If Jose doesn't suffer from the high frequency games this season, and Rubio doesn't get hurt before the Olympics, I think he comes through okay.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I'm greedy I wan't Batum and Chandler (move Batum to SG)

    I'd do 7-8 million a year for Batum and 8 - 10 million a year for Chandler
    I believe you are far too generous with Chandler's salary. Batum to begin with is the far better player with a higher ceiling going forward while Chandler has not really shown close to the Batum skill set. Coincidentally Liston has a Statophile on the main page re Chandler and it's revealing somewhat. Good player but not at that price.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Rookie The Fox's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    One of the major reasons to trade Jose apart for the salary relief is that he is going to be one busy hombre this off season with the Olympics and one wonders what physical toll it will take come next season. I believe he is a luxury we can withstand for the potential return at this time. This would be a move for the long term and for the best return on this asset.
    TRUE, makes sense. I just like his veteran "style" leadership and his decision making. Long Term maybe not, BUT I see Jose as the type of PG the Raps would trade for so I woudl vote to just keep him...
    Peace. Positivity. Prosperity.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote The Fox wrote: View Post
    TRUE, makes sense. I just like his veteran "style" leadership and his decision making. Long Term maybe not, BUT I see Jose as the type of PG the Raps would trade for so I woudl vote to just keep him...

    jose isn't the type of player you trade to make a trade. you need an equivalent back up plan when you move him. if the offers aren't good enough by deadline you keep him until draft and if on draft they still aren't good enough you ride him into next year as a 10 million expiring. with jose we hold all the leverage in trades. he is just as valuable to us next year in the pick and roll as he is to a contender this year with pg troubles. we are in a great position in regards to him.

    i just posted in the nash forum and i think in the summer the only reason you trade jose is if nash is guaranteed to be coming to toronto. if not he would be the best option heading into training camp for us anyway.

  8. #48
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    jose isn't the type of player you trade to make a trade. you need an equivalent back up plan when you move him. if the offers aren't good enough by deadline you keep him until draft and if on draft they still aren't good enough you ride him into next year as a 10 million expiring. with jose we hold all the leverage in trades. he is just as valuable to us next year in the pick and roll as he is to a contender this year with pg troubles. we are in a great position in regards to him.

    i just posted in the nash forum and i think in the summer the only reason you trade jose is if nash is guaranteed to be coming to toronto. if not he would be the best option heading into training camp for us anyway.
    Well said.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    As an admitted hater of Calderon and Bargnani's defense in the past, I don't want to lose them now no matter what the offer is. By around this time next year, I will be saying the same thing about Demar.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  10. #50
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    Sell high on Jose? Damn right. This season has been like a miracle for Jose's value as a trade asset. Let's not forget that some people were talking about using the amniesty clause on Jose when the season began, and how he should be backing up Bayless. We should be crossing our fingers that he doesn't pull his annual hammy before BC can pull the trigger on a deal.

    Trade Jose (and/or Barbosa/Amir/Kleiza/Demar/Bayless) for the highest/most #1 draft picks & cap relief that you can get. Do this yesterday.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    God I'd love to be a fly on the wall in BC's office and hear the actual offers
    you know that saying is used so often and i'm pretty sure a fly doesn't have ears and doesn't understand english. but, even if we pretend it does you'd get swatted or raided and you can't speak nor can you type. plus, flies live for like 2 days.

    however, i'd love to have one of those secret recorder fake flies like in the movies.

    tou could also buy one of those sonar things and try to get close enough to listen in.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    you know that saying is used so often and i'm pretty sure a fly doesn't have ears and doesn't understand english. but, even if we pretend it does you'd get swatted or raided and you can't speak nor can you type. plus, flies live for like 2 days.

    however, i'd love to have one of those secret recorder fake flies like in the movies.
    haha

  13. #53
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Teams Still Calling About Il Mago, Colangelo Still Not Listening

    Andre Bargnani’s name gets mentioned a lot with the Raptors, but league sources say the Raptors continue to turn away offers on Bargs. The belief is he was a borderline All-Star this year before getting hurt, and once he is paired with this year’s first round pick Jonas Valančiūnas next year he’ll get even better.
    Source: Hoopsworld.com

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I think that has more to do with the offers Colangelo has been receiving for Bargnani than anything else. If the right offer comes along I'm sure he'd have to think about it. I'm sure he could be playing by now if BC wanted him to, but preserving the memory of how well he played prior to injury in onther GM's mind is just as good leverage as anything else.

  15. #55
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The thing is, who's going to be higher on Bargnani than Colangelo?... I think the correct answer (after what we have seen in a small sample this season) is no one outside Bargnani's immediate family. So... Who's going to offer Colangelo a deal where he feels it knocks his socks off?

  16. #56
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The thing is, who's going to be higher on Bargnani than Colangelo?... I think the correct answer (after what we have seen in a small sample this season) is no one outside Bargnani's immediate family. So... Who's going to offer Colangelo a deal where he feels it knocks his socks off?
    We assume Colangelo is madly in love with Bargnani, but maybe....just maybe, Colangelo is capable of evaluating Bargnani without letting personal biases affect his judgement (wishful thinking, I know).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  17. #57
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Bargnani is young and he was having a breakout season but he doesn't have a long track record of high performance though. That means Colangelo more than likely isn't getting what he feels is full market price for a guy of Bargnani's talents and production. It's not even about bias, it's about the affect of perceived risk by the market. It's probably also about deviating from the plan and I think Bargnani is probably all over the blueprints of what Colangelo wants to build. This brings me back to my last post. To trade a big piece of the plan he would probably need an offer that would knock his socks off but how is he going to get that when Bargnani doesn't have a large window of history playing at his current level? He's played like an all-star this season but what team is going to trade a star for him who isn't an older vet? I'm sure the Celtics would ship out Garnett or Pierce today for him but what sense is that?

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is young and he was having a breakout season but he doesn't have a long track record of high performance though. That means Colangelo more than likely isn't getting what he feels is full market price for a guy of Bargnani's talents and production. It's not even about bias, it's about the affect of perceived risk by the market. It's probably also about deviating from the plan and I think Bargnani is probably all over the blueprints of what Colangelo wants to build. This brings me back to my last post. To trade a big piece of the plan he would probably need an offer that would knock his socks off but how is he going to get that when Bargnani doesn't have a large window of history playing at his current level? He's played like an all-star this season but what team is going to trade a star for him who isn't an older vet? I'm sure the Celtics would ship out Garnett or Pierce today for him but what sense is that?
    off topic but i cant see the celtics trading pierce. i think he is going to be a lifer and i hope he is. good to see that in todays game every now and then.

  19. #59
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    He's been in rumors all over the place. Their big trio are all 34 plus years in age and their one diamond who you'd think is a long term guy is clashing with their head coach. A rebuild is on the horizon and he has some value right now. In a couple seasons his value will be little. This is the Boston Celtics we're talking about here. They haven't had real loyalty to players in 20 years.

  20. #60
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    i can see ray allen getting moved, but i don't see much interest in garnett. pierce to the clips makes too much sense so it'll never happen.
    @jerboat

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