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ESPN: "Lots of teams are calling Toronto about Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani"

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  • #31
    Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Some of the posters who believe it is just a matter of time Jose gets injured were all for making an offer to Oden last Summer... Coherence always takes a back seat when it does not suit the current plan.

    I am fine with trading Calderon + Ed Davis for Felton + Batum because I believe Batum is significantly better than the other 3 players involved. There is no way I would trade Calderon straight up for Felton as I am not a believer in Felton. The "he played at near all-star level in NY" argument which is often used always fail to come with the "in D'Antoni's system" disclaimer.
    How does one bad idea justify another (not as) bad idea?

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    • #32
      we have to take the gamble with calderon, b/c I want Toronto to win it all, I've never been one to settle for mediocrity. And just like not having a defensive centre, not having a pg who knows how to run a team like Calderon does seriously limits a teams potential. Just ask dwight. straying a little, but with a related example: ASK boston who will continue to wonder if they kept perk last year if they could have won a final champiohship, they are wayy too old to win it all this year.

      Who knows? maybe with rubio emerging as a star a lot of the pressure will be taken off our horse.

      IMO (from most important to least for winning it all)

      1)defensive centre
      2)pass first point guard
      3)superstar.

      of course there are exceptions, namely (super) superstars that can compensate, but how likely is it that a hall of fame player will land in toronto? or for that matter 3 (sorry, 2.05)? (just so you don't use miami as a counter example)

      that is why the GM gets paid big bucks, any idiot can play it safe and after years end up with a mediocre team, knowing when to take action and gamble not everyone can do........
      Last edited by akashsingh; Wed Feb 22, 2012, 02:43 PM.

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      • #33
        MangoKid wrote: View Post
        I'd rather give that money to Batum than Chandler, Kirilenko - Anytime you can acquire a lengthy, young swingman with explosiveness without giving up any assets on your own roster, you gotta take that chance. I'd give him 8-9 mil a season to start.
        If Portland is truly afraid of losing him for nothing in an offseason bidding war, I wonder what they think of DeRozan, especially if the Raps were able to add a top-notch wing in the draft (ie: Barnes/MKG). Having Batum and Barnes/MKG manning the wings for years to come, along with Bargnani and JV, could be the makings of very good and well rounded team. I'm curious if DeRozan would be a good starting point for trade talk and how it would compare to what other teams could offer Portland for Batum.

        I would hesitate to give Batum more than $7-9M per season, but I fear that a bidding war could easily push the winning offer over the $10M threshold.
        Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 22, 2012, 02:40 PM.

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        • #34
          CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
          If Portland is truly afraid of losing him for nothing in an offseason bidding war, I wonder what they think of DeRozan, especially if the Raps were able to add a top-notch wing in the draft (ie: Barnes/MKG). Having Batum and Barnes/MKG manning the wings for years to come, along with Bargnani and JV...

          I would hesitate to give Batum more than $7-9M per season, but I fear that a bidding war could easily push the winning offer over the $10M threshold.
          They have their own problems to think about with Wallace possibly opting out of his contract. Felton's contract will be off the books, so it gives them something to work with. There's a chance Crawford opts out of his contract for next season as well, so the Blazers might be in pretty good position to match almost any offer (unless it gets crazy). I would be all for giving Batum anywhere between 7 and 9 million per, but anything north of that, and I'd bow out. Having Batum and MKG or Barnes would be a dream (which is probably why it won't happen)

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          • #35
            MangoKid wrote: View Post
            Speculation on my part is that they probably gave him a promise in 2008, and then backed out. I don't think his beef is with the city or the organization, moreso, it's with the GM.
            My speculation:

            BC led him on - no promise - straight up led him on, like the hot chick who is just looking for free driinks, and he was upset about subsequently dropping so low.

            Assuming the rumours are true, this is why I do not see it as an issue in 2012:

            1) Batum is older and understands the league is a business - especially after the lockout,
            2) with 4 years having gone by, understands the risk of the test results at that time (even he must have been concerned as he skipped workouts to get checked out),
            3) Toronto eventually traded their pick (unfortunately) in the JO trade,
            4) money - like Mango said in another post, enough of it will cloud the memory,
            5) opportunity - he will start at SG or SF no doubt,
            6) ego stroking - BC can weep about his mistake, talk about the bright future with guys closer to his own age, French endorsement opportunities.
            7) the ability to offer a contract with either 6 zeroes or 7 zeroes as an average salary.

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            • #36
              I thought he was upset becuase we brought him in for a work out the year of his draft and promptly sent him on his way due some minor injury. I think that the incorrect information about him being injured knocked his draft stock down a few notches and he's held a bit of a grudge since. I heard his father got involved some how as well. Sorry, no link. I'm just going by what I thought I had heard about it, so could be no truth to it.

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              • #37
                Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                I thought he was upset becuase we brought him in for a work out the year of his draft and promptly sent him on his way due some minor injury. I think that the incorrect information about him being injured knocked his draft stock down a few notches and he's held a bit of a grudge since. I heard his father got involved some how as well. Sorry, no link. I'm just going by what I thought I had heard about it, so could be no truth to it.
                His father died of a massive heart attack on the free throw line when he was 2, so he surely did not get involved. He clearly had an impact in the dropping of his draft stock, but a post-mortem impact.

                The whole French endorsement thing kind of intrigues me : if you want to position your team as Canada's, as small as the Quebec interest might be for hoops, it could be smart and worth a couple of extra millions...

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                • #38
                  I'm greedy I wan't Batum and Chandler (move Batum to SG)

                  I'd do 7-8 million a year for Batum and 8 - 10 million a year for Chandler
                  For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                  • #39
                    I also wan't Pietrus and Battier as my back up swingmen since I'm daydreaming anyway
                    For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                    • #40
                      thead wrote: View Post
                      I'm greedy I wan't Batum and Chandler (move Batum to SG)

                      I'd do 7-8 million a year for Batum and 8 - 10 million a year for Chandler
                      That is my wet dream. I talked about that somewhere. Ugh. That would be fantastic.

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                      • #41
                        Apollo wrote: View Post
                        How does one bad idea justify another (not as) bad idea?
                        Maybe my defense is starting to break down and I too am playing the dream game. Or maybe I am starting to rely too much on a rudimentary probabilistic model.

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                        • #42
                          I don't understand the attraction to Ray Felton. Basically, he's been good for half a season under Mike D'Antoni. Look at every other time he wasn't in that situation and you see a back up NBA point guard. And considering he's only make a couple million less than Calderon, it's not a big enough savings there to step as far down as we would be going from Calderon to Felton. He's an expiring contract, but it's not like we have another starting caliber PG just itching to take over as starter. Bayless simply is not that guy.

                          I think if we trade Calderon, given our current PG situation, we need either a starting PG in return or a young guy in a similar mold of Bayless. Basically where Bayless has failed, we need someone to replace him and again to see if there's anything there with the new guy. We need another project where we cross our fingers and hope it pans out -- Felton is not that guy.
                          your pal,
                          ebrian

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                          • #43
                            ebrian wrote: View Post
                            I don't understand the attraction to Ray Felton. Basically, he's been good for half a season under Mike D'Antoni. Look at every other time he wasn't in that situation and you see a back up NBA point guard. And considering he's only make a couple million less than Calderon, it's not a big enough savings there to step as far down as we would be going from Calderon to Felton. He's an expiring contract, but it's not like we have another starting caliber PG just itching to take over as starter. Bayless simply is not that guy.

                            I think if we trade Calderon, given our current PG situation, we need either a starting PG in return or a young guy in a similar mold of Bayless. Basically where Bayless has failed, we need someone to replace him and again to see if there's anything there with the new guy. We need another project where we cross our fingers and hope it pans out -- Felton is not that guy.
                            I agree with this, the only thing that felton has over calderon is that he currently plays for a winning team. I do not see how this is a good deal for the raptors. Raptors need to trade calderon, for a back up PG, and a pick/or rotation player.
                            "Defense wins championships."

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                            • #44
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              Jose has been injured after every international competition he has played in for the last 3 years that the season has started on time....Preparing for the Olympics is a great opportunity to stay in game shape. The problem is there is an 82 game season which requires a body to be strong. You can't do this type of training (specifically core, strength, and flexibility training) in season. Preparing for the Olympics with warm up tournaments, exhibition games, and the Olympics itself is like another season with another 20 games added in July and August.
                              I'm thinking this year might be different. There is no doubt that Rubio will be getting the lions share of the minutes. With a program from Alex McKechnie and lower usage, I think the chance of injury goes down.

                              If Jose doesn't suffer from the high frequency games this season, and Rubio doesn't get hurt before the Olympics, I think he comes through okay.

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                              • #45
                                thead wrote: View Post
                                I'm greedy I wan't Batum and Chandler (move Batum to SG)

                                I'd do 7-8 million a year for Batum and 8 - 10 million a year for Chandler
                                I believe you are far too generous with Chandler's salary. Batum to begin with is the far better player with a higher ceiling going forward while Chandler has not really shown close to the Batum skill set. Coincidentally Liston has a Statophile on the main page re Chandler and it's revealing somewhat. Good player but not at that price.

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