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Thread: Ed or Amir?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Default Ed or Amir?

    This debate has been discussed in various threads, but I'd like to start a new one to focus on this question. If we can add a poll to it even better (but I think a mod has to do that).

    If you had to choose between keeping one of Ed Davis or Amir Johnson which do you keep and which do you trade away? It would be nice to have them both but that position seems to be stacked, and trading one away now for a position of need seems to make more sense when thinking of the future.

    Here is a pro/con list that I created for both.

    Reasons for keeping Amir:
    - Plays with a lot of hustle
    - His salary is actually pretty decent.
    - He's still very young (24 years).
    - Does very well in the pick and roll.
    - Has a mid-range game.
    - Can play both center and PF.
    - He's tough (will play even if injured)
    - Was the best Rap statistically last year.
    - Loves the city of Toronto.


    Reasons for trading Amir:
    - He is inconsistent.
    - Too foul prone.
    - Too much of a tweener down low.
    - Has a mid-range game, but it takes a long time to get his shot off, which is infuriating.
    - Even though his salary is decent, he is still the 4th highest paid Rap (after Barbosa, who's a FA), and makes more than the mid-level
    - May have already hit his peak.
    - Could be considered redundant when JV comes here as they play a similar style of game.


    Reasons for keeping Ed:
    - Still in his rookie contract.
    - Has loads of potential.
    - Seems to have a very high IQ.
    - Good NBA pedigree
    - Can give you a consistent double/double
    - Still has ability to gain more strength
    - Still has never had a decent training camp.
    - Could be seen as a player a team would want on a contending team.


    Reasons to trade Ed:
    - He doesn't always seem to play with 100% focus
    - Has really no outside-shot
    - He may not like Toronto, so the chances of him jetting could be real once he becomes a FA
    - He has regressed a bit this season as a sophomore.
    - Casey is giving him less minutes than Triano did last season, and that's with Bargnani injured for so many games.


    Ideally I'd want to keep both. However if a trade opportunity comes that can make the team better, I'd prefer to keep Amir and trade Ed.

    Who would you pick if you had to make the choice, and why?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    id say Ed... he has a higher trade value.. & i dont really like his game too much

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    id say Ed... he has a higher trade value.. & i dont really like his game too much
    Trade both. Neither are good enough to be a starter on any team, and amir is way to expensive as a bench/fringe nba player and Ed hasnt developed his skill enough this year (his shot around the basket is just horrible) and would rather have him traded and fetch something that can help the future or have a solid veteran player.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote DaveKim wrote: View Post
    Trade both. Neither are good enough to be a starter on any team, and amir is way to expensive as a bench/fringe nba player and Ed hasnt developed his skill enough this year (his shot around the basket is just horrible) and would rather have him traded and fetch something that can help the future or have a solid veteran player.
    That would also mean that you won't get much back for Davis in a trade anyway in which case we might as well keep him and see if he improves over the summer and next year.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    This debate has been discussed in various threads, but I'd like to start a new one to focus on this question. If we can add a poll to it even better (but I think a mod has to do that).

    If you had to choose between keeping one of Ed Davis or Amir Johnson which do you keep and which do you trade away? It would be nice to have them both but that position seems to be stacked, and trading one away now for a position of need seems to make more sense when thinking of the future.

    Here is a pro/con list that I created for both.

    Reasons for keeping Amir:
    - Plays with a lot of hustle
    - His salary is actually pretty decent.
    - He's still very young (24 years).
    - Does very well in the pick and roll.
    - Has a mid-range game.
    - Can play both center and PF.
    - He's tough (will play even if injured)
    - Was the best Rap statistically last year.
    - Loves the city of Toronto.


    Reasons for trading Amir:
    - He is inconsistent.
    - Too foul prone.
    - Too much of a tweener down low.
    - Has a mid-range game, but it takes a long time to get his shot off, which is infuriating.
    - Even though his salary is decent, he is still the 4th highest paid Rap (after Barbosa, who's a FA), and makes more than the mid-level
    - May have already hit his peak.
    - Could be considered redundant when JV comes here as they play a similar style of game.


    Reasons for keeping Ed:
    - Still in his rookie contract.
    - Has loads of potential.
    - Seems to have a very high IQ.
    - Good NBA pedigree
    - Can give you a consistent double/double
    - Still has ability to gain more strength
    - Still has never had a decent training camp.
    - Could be seen as a player a team would want on a contending team.


    Reasons to trade Ed:
    - He doesn't always seem to play with 100% focus
    - Has really no outside-shot
    - He may not like Toronto, so the chances of him jetting could be real once he becomes a FA
    - He has regressed a bit this season as a sophomore.
    - Casey is giving him less minutes than Triano did last season, and that's with Bargnani injured for so many games.


    Ideally I'd want to keep both. However if a trade opportunity comes that can make the team better, I'd prefer to keep Amir and trade Ed.

    Who would you pick if you had to make the choice, and why?
    I don't think Ed doesn't like Toronto, he's always said his personality is laid back, so he doesn't show a lot of expression. He's been answering questions and acting the same on the court since arriving as a rookie.
    But, Amir does play with more hustle and heart, and he is very versatile, but the only problem is his ceiling is coming to a close.

    Im trading Amir, originally I would say Ed, but he has higher potential, and if he were to get stronger, work on the jump-shot that seems to be becoming a bit better looking, continue to work on inside post game, and footwork, he could hold possible numbers like 12 points, 9-10 rebounds, 2 blocks.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Amir hands down. Everyone keeps talking about Eds potential but he hasn't shown anything yet. He is also pretty small and gets owned by other PFs. Amir has improved a TON on fouling. I don't even see why people are still saying he fouls too much. He is averaging 3.61 fouls in 24.4 min. Which isn't terrible. He is FAR more efficient on O tha Ed, he can block more and he's a better defensive player overall. If we have to get rid of Amir or Ed, it should be Ed.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    What do you mean he hasn't shown anything?

    He led the team last season in double-doubles, in his rookie season.....

    This year he has shown good spots of being able to score in the post, rebound the basketball at a high level.

    Ed Davis has higher IQ, and is very good at help-side defense, he doesn't need to block over & over again. He plays good fundamental defense unlike Amir Johnson who jumps at EVERY pump-fake.

    He's coming along too recently. He runs to floor as well as Amir Johnson.

  8. #8
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    Amir Barg Ed cannot play the C role. With all the PFs in the upcoming draft better to trade one now then be forced into a crappy deal if we have to draft one.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    I think Ed is the better player with the better future, so we should trade him. Bargnani is our 4 man, Bryco is behind him and he is finally starting to be the player many of us envisioned when he was drafted. He is the present and the future, he still has about 6 years left in his prime and with Demar starting to show something, we may be entering win mode starting next year. The core is going to be complete with this years pick, Val, and whoever we sign.

    So the question is not who is better between Ed and Amir, it is who fills the back up role better on a contender? Amir is an energy guy who plays well in the pick and roll. He is also never going to get a contract much bigger than the one he has now. Ed has the potential to be a very good low post scorer and is likely a future starter: so trade him for someone good and keep the guy who you know will fill the back up position. Amir also seems to be loyal to this franchise which is very important.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Raptors Republic Rookie WestsideRidah's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    I think Ed is the better player with the better future, so we should trade him. Bargnani is our 4 man, Bryco is behind him and he is finally starting to be the player many of us envisioned when he was drafted. He is the present and the future, he still has about 6 years left in his prime and with Demar starting to show something, we may be entering win mode starting next year. The core is going to be complete with this years pick, Val, and whoever we sign.

    So the question is not who is better between Ed and Amir, it is who fills the back up role better on a contender? Amir is an energy guy who plays well in the pick and roll. He is also never going to get a contract much bigger than the one he has now. Ed has the potential to be a very good low post scorer and is likely a future starter: so trade him for someone good and keep the guy who you know will fill the back up position. Amir also seems to be loyal to this franchise which is very important.
    I was going to say and have in other posts trade Amir and keep Ed, however this post really made sense to me. Bargs is the guy like or not (I do btw) so having a guy like Amir coming off the bench as someone satisfied with that role would be alot better than a young PF who might envision himself a starter in the league at some point grumbling about the lack of minutes.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Trade Amir. Keep Ed.

    Ultimately, it comes down to the trade value of each guy, which we have no idea about, unfortunately.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Keep Ed. Better contract for someone coming off the bench for the next few years. If he could add a consistent jumper and finish better around the net he'd be a fantastic first big off the bench.

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    I like Amir, we'll need more experience as this team develops over the next few year. He's going to keep getting better, and can jump out of the gym. However, it really comes down to what we get in return. If we're trading for Rondo, I'd really put either in the mix with Calderon (who doesn't get the respect he deserves). If we fluke out and get the number one pick, I'd think both might be on the move. Bargs has dominated, like I new he would, so it's really about filling the spots around him. Now I'm dreaming about Anthony Davis in Toronto...and forget about Chandler at the 3. James Johnson is a beast defensively, and we haven't seen the best from Klieza yet... plus Klieza and Jonas will be good for the raptors.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    This team is made to be built for the future, and Ed Davis surely acknowledges that with his POTENTIAL, POTENTIAL, POTENTIAL. So many have unrealistic expectations for a thin European kid named Jonas Valanciunas, with nothing more than his IQ, motor, athleticism, length, and defense. You don't get far in the NBA without skill i.e Demar Derozan. BUT, with time, he's going to develop it so in the future, he becomes a player that helps when we contend. He's not going to make us a top 4 team in the league (oh how I would love to be wrong about that), with a team of Jose, Demar, Chandler, Draft pick, Val, Bargs, I mean that's good, but contending or playoffs? I don't you guys.

    It's a team you have to just let em' grow. Let it build out to what the initial plan is to be. Rebuild now, contend for the future.
    So if you're going to trade one, Amir, but if we can keep both, hey, hit it. Ed was a draft steal for us if you don't recall, let him pan out, because for one power forward that's thin, no real training camp, injury starting a career. It's not bad at all, of course he's up and down, but ALL young players go through that....

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    This team is made to be built for the future, and Ed Davis surely acknowledges that with his POTENTIAL, POTENTIAL, POTENTIAL. So many have unrealistic expectations for a thin European kid named Jonas Valanciunas, with nothing more than his IQ, motor, athleticism, length, and defense. You don't get far in the NBA without skill i.e Demar Derozan. BUT, with time, he's going to develop it so in the future, he becomes a player that helps when we contend. He's not going to make us a top 4 team in the league (oh how I would love to be wrong about that), with a team of Jose, Demar, Chandler, Draft pick, Val, Bargs, I mean that's good, but contending or playoffs? I don't you guys.

    It's a team you have to just let em' grow. Let it build out to what the initial plan is to be. Rebuild now, contend for the future.
    So if you're going to trade one, Amir, but if we can keep both, hey, hit it. Ed was a draft steal for us if you don't recall, let him pan out, because for one power forward that's thin, no real training camp, injury starting a career. It's not bad at all, of course he's up and down, but ALL young players go through that....
    IQ, motor, athleticism, length, and defense is a package that many NBA players do not have. Many skilled players never excel because they are missing one or more of these attributes.

    You don't win U20 Euro player of the year without skill.
    You don't shoot 85% from the FT line and 70% from the floor without skill.
    You don't make your home country national team as an 18 year old without skill - oh yeah, and actually play!
    You don't win MVP of the U-18 and U-19 Euro Champtionships without skill.


    The expectations might be excessive but of all the comments I've read on him that I disagree with, lack of skill is probably the one I disagree with most.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    ...of all the comments I've read on him that I disagree with, lack of skill is probably the one I disagree with most.

    100% bang on.

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again: who they keep will come down to a financial decision. Specifically it might come down to what they end up paying DeRozan.

    With the frountcourt of the future likely shaping up to be Val and Bargs at the 5/4, can you afford to shell out 8+ million to keep Ed Davis? Highly unlikely. The better plan is to trade him while he's on his rookie contract and extract maximum value for him. The length of Amir's contract aligns nicely with the incoming contracts of Val and this year's draft pick, Ed Davis' (if they choose to resign him) will not. Instead it would likely create a logjam and some tough choices, again assuming DeRozan gets an extension and the club is shelling out 25-30+ million between DeRozan, Davis and Bargs. Add in another 10 million easily for the rest of your roster, and suddenly extensions for Val and this year's pick would require quite a bit of manoeuvring if one of them proves worthy of a max contract or something close to it.

    It's far easier and safer to trade Ed and ride out Amir's contract.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    IQ, motor, athleticism, length, and defense is a package that many NBA players do not have. Many skilled players never excel because they are missing one or more of these attributes.

    You don't win U20 Euro player of the year without skill.
    You don't shoot 85% from the FT line and 70% from the floor without skill.
    You don't make your home country national team as an 18 year old without skill - oh yeah, and actually play!
    You don't win MVP of the U-18 and U-19 Euro Champtionships without skill.


    The expectations might be excessive but of all the comments I've read on him that I disagree with, lack of skill is probably the one I disagree with most.
    I hope you're right actually, because he's obviously a player I want to exceed and help the Raptors win. It's just these expectations are just to unrealistic, and it becomes hype, than he comes, doesn't exceed the expectations, Raptor fans become impatient and disappointed, and then want to throw them away.

    I hope he doesn't have a lack of skill, because as a post player, his post moves, and overall offense isn't the best, and that won't develop over one off-season, it takes time and effort, he'll put in the effort, but we need to be patient.

    So there's my point on Demar Derozan, Ed Davis..... Let these guys play, and give them the time.

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    Crazy thought, and I know it wasn't an option ... but aren't we pretty solid with Ed, Amir and Val as a front court, and isn't our need a star wing? Wouldn't Bargs get us more than either Ed or Amir?

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    Quote Kuh wrote: View Post
    Crazy thought, and I know it wasn't an option ... but aren't we pretty solid with Ed, Amir and Val as a front court, and isn't our need a star wing? Wouldn't Bargs get us more than either Ed or Amir?
    Ed or Amir couldn't tie Bargs sneakers. You want to KEEP elite players, and that is what Bargs has morphed into.

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