View Poll Results: Do you truely feel that Bosh will be in a Raptors uniform next season?

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  • Yes

    17 60.71%
  • No

    3 10.71%
  • Undecided

    8 28.57%
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Thread: CB4 Trade Rumors: Trade Deadline

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Didn't all these same publications say the exact same thing about Vince before he re-upped? I'm not too worried. The team is playing really well right now, continuing to gel, and he and Bargnani look like they can do some damage for the team for a long time to come. F all these Americans and what they say. BOSH WILL STAY!

  2. #42
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    Would be pretty interesting to see. I think Darryl Morey is the best GM in the league, and find it intriguing that he values Bosh so highly.

  3. #43
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    They were saying what we all thought was junk they summer of his trade demand. It turned out to be true and it shattered many a Raptors fan, including myself. I scoffed at the idea of Vince Carter demanding a trade but boy was I wrong.

  4. #44
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    if bosh leaves it will be a sign and trade ... but i really think he will stay .. but what the hell do i know

  5. #45
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Even if its a S&T we need to realize that the Raptors will not get equal value for him. It will most likely be for spare parts and picks. The reason I say this with confidence is because I have history on my side and also logic. No team is going to make a move for Bosh if it means they have to gut their team to do so, it wouldn't make sense. Any team that wants Bosh will be looking to pair him with their star. So if he goes to Houston, Ming and probably Ariza are off the table. If its Dallas then no dice when it comes to Dirk, etc.

  6. #46
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    So I guess it becomes obvious if you watch some Raptors games and look at some +/-. David Anderson and Carl Landry are basically poor versions of Bargs/Bosh, respectively, and this is a key ingredient of some of their best lineups. I guess the idea that even w/o Yao at 100%, you can plug in Bosh and probably field a 55+ win team. If Yao does come back at 80% and they also acquire Bosh I suspect that they are a 65+ win team.
    As you recall, Yao is dominant defensively, requires a double team in the low block, and is automatic from within 15 feet.
    Kind of interesting. Battier has slowed down quite a bit, but Battier/Ariza will still be enough to bother Kobe/Bron/Wade/Melo types into inefficient nights, so a Rockets team with 80% Yao/Bosh/Ariza/Battier will probably be top 4 in the league, minimum.

    If I had to guess, I suspect the Rockets would give up anything on their roster (aside from Yao) and multiple draft picks in order to grab Bosh. But like I said elsewhere, very unlikely Bosh leaves.

  7. #47
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    It would be fun to watch play center in that uptempo Rockets team. Alongside Scola + Landry + Hayes (+ Dorsey) in the big man rotation.

    It won't happen ... but it would have been a lot of fun to see. They would have been a very difficult team to matchup with.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star brothersteve's Avatar
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    No max contract player during the current CBA has left their current team to sign elsewhere unless they were not offered a max contract by their current team. It has not happened and it will not. The difference in money is just too big - as was intended by the CBA.

    The only issue is will MLSE let Bryan Colangelo give CB4 a $130 million contract topping out at $27million and end up in luxury tax territory or not?
    The best Raptors discussion board is at Raptors Republic.

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  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Rookie Seeten's Avatar
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    Of course Morey wants Bosh, he's one of the most efficient players in the NBA, and Morey is a stats guy.

  10. #50
    Super Moderator .40 Cal Flakes's Avatar
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    Quote brothersteve wrote: View Post
    No max contract player during the current CBA has left their current team to sign elsewhere unless they were not offered a max contract by their current team. It has not happened and it will not. The difference in money is just too big - as was intended by the CBA.

    The only issue is will MLSE let Bryan Colangelo give CB4 a $130 million contract topping out at $27million and end up in luxury tax territory or not?
    If they know what's good for the franchise they will!

    ...If the Dinos keep playing like this and make some noise in the playoffs, ie. make it to the 2nd round or at least a very competitive 1st round (7 games), than CB will re-up my friends!
    Last edited by .40 Cal Flakes; Sat Jan 9th, 2010 at 04:05 PM.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star brothersteve's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    They'll offer T-Mac's contract, maaaaybe Luis Scola. To sweeten the pot, they might even throw in Aaron Brooks since a pick alone wouldn't be enough as it'll be to low.
    That's what they might offer but it shouldn't be enough to generate a response.
    Doesn't give enough back at this time.
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  12. #52
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    How much is it assumed we are selling Bosh for? It's not really a rent a player, but there is no guarantee he would resign with Houston. I don't think Houston would part with Brooks, I wonder if they would include Ariza? I would like to see them take on Turk's contract as well if a big move was being made. I could also see a third team getting involved like GS if thier looking to unload talent, they could take on Mcgrady's expiring.

    If we took back an Ariza or a Budinger/Laundry plus a pick, I could live with that in a world where the last star we traded resulted in a guy who wouldn't play and two guys named williams who couldn't play.

    Of course this is all spitballing, free agents rarely leave for pastures that don't pay you as much green. Colangelo would have to be bowled over to unload Bosh. It would be his legacy.

  13. #53
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    What would be the best offer that Houston could offer? Not talking about what they will offer, but what is the best possible trade package they could put on the table?

    Let's assume Yao Ming is off the table (probably for financial reasons). And let's assume that Houston won't take back rubbish contracts (Banks, Evans) if they're including their best talent. Everyone else is available. The Rockets need to swap at least 125% of $15.78 million.

    Scola + Landry + Battier + Brooks + Ariza = $20.2 million. Does that sound like Houston's best talent? best package? Maybe a future first round pick (likely end of first round pick unless it's 2010 pick).

    That package in exchange for Chris Bosh + Jarrett Jack.

    Toronto Raptors

    Luis Scola is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season and is up for a large pay increase. Brooks' and Landry's contracts expire in another year and both are due large pay rises. Battier will also expect a renewal of his deal.

    Big man rotation -- Bargnani ($10 mil) + Scola ($8 mil) + Landry ($8-9 mil) + some minimum contracts -- Total of $30 million.
    Wing rotation -- Hedo ($10 mil) + Battier ($7 mil) + Ariza ($7 mil) + DeRozan (rookie scale) + some minimum contracts -- $28 million.
    Guard rotation -- Calderon ($9 mil) + Brooks ($5 mil) + minimum contract -- $15 million.

    Total cost of roster -- $73 million

    Note: Let's say Scola and Landry both sign for $5 million instead of the $8 million I had them pegged for. That would still have the Raptors total salaries up at $67 million. If DeRozan becomes a star player, the Raps could afford to let Battier go if they wished. So salaries down to $60 million. Enough flexibility to spend their MLE on a bench player (who will likely be worse than Battier).

    C -- Bargnani
    PF -- Landry
    SF -- Turkoglu
    SG -- Battier
    PG -- Calderon
    6th man -- Scola
    7th man -- Ariza
    8th man -- Brooks
    9th man -- DeRozan
    10th-15th men -- minimum contract free agent signings

    Or, DeRozan becomes a star, starts at SG likely alongside Ariza or Battier with Turkoglu switching to the main backup wing role. Anyway, those wing positions are largely interchangeable.

    How good is that team? Is it a contender?

    If it's not a contender, how does it become a contender? Is there enough room for internal development (young prospects) to push the squad into an elite team? Does the team have enough trade assets to make a push in the trade market? No cap flexibility if they resign Scola, Landry, Battier and Brooks. So free agency isn't much of an option outside of the MLE which would be wasted considering the team's depth + large amount of contracts already on the books.

    What is the way forward?

    Overall

    In summary, are Houston a good team to trade with?

    They're not offering star talent and they're not offering top prospects who may become star level players. They're offering a combination of elite role players who'll supply the team with excellent depth.

    With no Chris Bosh on the Raptors ... with Bargnani or Calderon or Hedo or Scola or Landry as the team's best player ... can Toronto realistically field a team that hopes of contending for a Championship?

    Can they use the foundation they've made from the trade with the Rockets to create a future contender?
    Last edited by Dave; Sat Jan 9th, 2010 at 04:41 PM.

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Rookie Seeten's Avatar
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    Dave:

    No.

  15. #55
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    It honestly doesn't seem like a contending team, at all, for the following reasons:

    1) Too defensively challenged at the PF spot, and no situational lockdown defenders (like Chuck Hayes of the Rockets) to at least slow the Paus of the world down.
    2) Only person who can create offense w/o pick and roll is Aaron Brooks, who is very streaky.
    3) Nobody who demands a double team. Landry is a great scorer, but I think it best to guard him in single coverage with someone rangy, mobile and strongish like Bosh or Lamar Odom.

    So when compared to the current Raptors squad seems a bit worse. Not having another guy who demands a double team will reduce the number of open shots Bargs/Calderon/Hedo get, likely
    decreasing their effectiveness.

    Also, there is no way you can expect to resign Scola or Landry for 5 million each. Landry will probably demand Paul Millsap money (8 million+), and Scola at least 6.

    As a final comment...basically Houston has built a system where they maximize the strengths of roleplayers (Ariza, Battier, Scola, Landry, etc), and minimize their weaknesses. Note that these players have significant, fundamental flaws as basketball players:
    1) Ariza cannot dribble and has a shaky shot.
    2) Battier cannot dribble and has no athleticism.
    3) Scola is almost completely right handed, and is a poor individual defender
    4) Landry is only 6'7 or so barefoot, has a short wingspan, and is a poor individual defender.
    5) Chuck Hayes is 6'5 barefoot, and has no offensive skills.

    Of course, these players have tons of strengths, too. But honestly, in terms of pure physical ability, some of the guys on our bench (Weems, Belli and Amir especially) are less physically challenged than these Rockets you want to trade for. Give Amir to Rick Adelman, and he can probably turn him into a double-double machine.

  16. #56
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    So yeah, unless you get back another player who requires a double team and scores efficiently like Bosh, then the team will need to rebuild and find one. Since rebuilding, no point in acquiring Scola/Battier.

    I'd say Ariza/Landry/Brooks, multiple draft picks (which would all be low 20s, and thus are worse than early 2nd rounders), and get rid of Raptors bad contracts would be the best trade.

    Overall though, I think the Raptors would lose this trade. Players who put up great numbers efficiently, require double teams, and can at least guard their position at an average to above average level are more valuable than the same dollar value of roleplayers.

  17. #57
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default Vecsey: Lakers Targeting Bosh

    What do you guys think? You think Vecsey is making this crap up like he has in the past, or do you think this rumour has some substance and truth behind it?

    Also, would you guys do a Bosh or Bynum deal?

    It commonly is believed Bosh almost certain is to flee Toronto after this season, when he has the right to opt out of the final year ($17.1 million) of his contract.

    My source believes the Lakers will offer Andrew Bynum for Bosh (if they haven’t done so already) well before the deadline expires. In itself, the one-for-one swap is impossible to make. Bynum’s “base year” essentially allows L.A. to take back but half of his salary this year ($12.5M). Of course, that restriction is lifted when next year’s salary ($13.7M) activates come July 1, at which time a sign-and-trade transaction would be feasible.

    The possibility of such a deal makes sense to me. First of all, Bynum is a legit starting center for the defending champions. He also has three years left on his contract after this one.

    As for the Raptors, despite the severe offseason roster renovation, they’re not giving any indication of being more than just a one-and-done playoff group this season and in the foreseeable future.

    What’s Bosh’s motivation to stay? Clearly, management’s sense of urgency to protect its principal asset cannot be accentuated enough. If that’s impractical, the organization cannot afford to lose Bosh without receiving equitable compensation.

    Source - Click here

  18. #58
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    Okay, the Anthony Randolph suggestion has just been usurped by this idea.

    Andrew Bynum is now the best trade package I've seen in a Chris Bosh trade.

    And yes, I would be willing to make that trade.

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Rookie brakeman1's Avatar
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    why would the lakers do this deal? This would leave them without a true low post presence, which leaves no one to defend against Yao, Howard, Oneal and Perkins when they get to the playoffs Pau Gasol and Bosh play the same type of game and operate in the same space.

  20. #60
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    You could do a lot worse than Bynum. Bynum is very young and a prototypical center. I would like to see something else coming back though, as in picks. The Raptors aren't going to get equal value for Bosh and this sort of deal may be the best option they have.

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