View Poll Results: Do you truely feel that Bosh will be in a Raptors uniform next season?

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  • Yes

    17 60.71%
  • No

    3 10.71%
  • Undecided

    8 28.57%
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Thread: CB4 Trade Rumors: Trade Deadline

  1. #81
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    Think Bynum and Turk could provide the same kind of 1-2 punch that Orlando had?

    Do you think Bargnani, who apparently thrives in guarding back-to-the-basket centres would fare well against smaller PFs?

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote verbatim wrote: View Post
    Think Bynum and Turk could provide the same kind of 1-2 punch that Orlando had?

    Do you think Bargnani, who apparently thrives in guarding back-to-the-basket centres would fare well against smaller PFs?
    Yeah thats a good point Bynum is a finisher around the basket, hedo would set him up for easy baskets all day long. Bargs i think would do well because of his quickness and he wouldn't get overpowered as much too. The only thing about BYnum is he injury prone ? He's only had one full season in 4 years, this year seems like he will stay healthy. But his upside like Bargs is trough the roof.

    Consider this both guys are 24 and 22 right now, both signed to extensions the Raps would never be undersized in the front court. Having said that their age being a strengh it's also a weakness because if ther 'Upside" doesn't pan out the Raps will be paying 22-23 mill for both.

  3. #83
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    I dunno if it is a real trade, but I think I would pull it. Good for Bosh, good for us (I think, I am unconvinced Bargnani can guard the 4). Bynum would be under long term contract and we could avoid all these interminable rumours that surround Bosh. Plus, if I were Bosh, I would jump at the chance, even if it meant more limited minutes.

  4. #84
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Imagine a lineup of:

    C - Gasol
    PF - Bosh
    SF - Artest
    SG - Bryant
    PG - Fisher
    6 - Odom


  5. #85
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Imagine a lineup of:

    C - Gasol
    PF - Bosh
    SF - Artest
    SG - Bryant
    PG - Fisher
    6 - Odom

    I would even throw in Calderon just to see the best basketball team in the league - yikes that would be a great team.

    Imagine:
    Gasol
    Bosh
    Artest
    Bryant
    Fisher

    Off the bench, Odom, Calderon (who would work amazing with Gasol AND Bosh). If I am the Lakers I think I would try to make this happen this season...(probably it won't happen...but man it would be awesome)

  6. #86
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    Quote verbatim wrote: View Post
    Think Bynum and Turk could provide the same kind of 1-2 punch that Orlando had?

    Do you think Bargnani, who apparently thrives in guarding back-to-the-basket centres would fare well against smaller PFs?
    Wonder how well Bargs could guard Bosh....I'd say pretty well.

  7. #87
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    I think Bosh would own Bargnani. Mind you, Bosh has moved his game inside this year, which suits Bargnani. But I mean, Bosh gives fits to even the best defenders in the league on most nights. Bosh commands a double every possession of the 4th. I gotta disagree Bendit.

    Mind you, I don't think Bosh would able to guard Bargs particularly well either though...

  8. #88
    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    BC definitely demanded JR Smith - asking for Melo dumber than a bad blonde joke.

  9. #89
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    Quote James Ballswin (Realizar) wrote: View Post
    BC definitely demanded JR Smith - asking for Melo dumber than a bad blonde joke.
    Yeah, he tried to get him last year too. Offered Kapono and the Nuggets laughed him off the phone.

  10. #90
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    Quote James Ballswin (Realizar) wrote: View Post
    - asking for Melo dumber than a bad blonde joke.
    Not necessarily imo....if it was Melo that was in the conv. it may have been done precisely to reinforce the public posture of not wanting to deal Bosh...or setting the bar high since these things get around and so, the next offers from other teams will have a bit more substance to them. Like knocking BC''s socks off type substance which he might be angling for.
    It's definitely smokescreen and poker time.

    ps...imv I would lean to a package including Nene & JR which might have been the exchange req.

  11. #91
    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote verbatim wrote: View Post
    I think Bosh would own Bargnani. Mind you, Bosh has moved his game inside this year, which suits Bargnani. But I mean, Bosh gives fits to even the best defenders in the league on most nights. Bosh commands a double every possession of the 4th. I gotta disagree Bendit.

    Mind you, I don't think Bosh would able to guard Bargs particularly well either though...
    Bosh would win but he wouldnt own Bargs. Andrea has the Three's and can drive just as good as Bosh can, his inside game is just not as polished and they both have good mid range shots . It would come down to one shot with Bosh probably using his pattened fake shot then driving to the hole left handed lay up. I wonder if they ever play one on one in practice ?

  12. #92
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Bosh can make virtually any shot on the court and is far more consistent. I think Bosh would whoop Bargnani.

  13. #93
    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Bosh can make virtually any shot on the court and is far more consistent. I think Bosh would whoop Bargnani.
    You're dreaming in a One on One game Bosh would be way too predictable, Andrea can go Inside or Ouside anytime, he's a way better ballhandler than bosh too. Andrea's only problem is he's just too streaky.

  14. #94
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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    You're dreaming in a One on One game Bosh would be way too predictable, Andrea can go Inside or Ouside anytime, he's a way better ballhandler than bosh too. Andrea's only problem is he's just too streaky.
    I got to agree, I think Bargnani could beat Bosh one-on-one for the reasons you cited.

  15. #95
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    You're dreaming in a One on One game Bosh would be way too predictable, Andrea can go Inside or Ouside anytime, he's a way better ballhandler than bosh too. Andrea's only problem is he's just too streaky.
    Bosh can go inside and outside. One of the strongest moves in his game is beating guys off the dribble. Bargnani isn't quick enough on his feet and as of this year he no longer can bully around the now muscular Chris Bosh. Bosh has the complete offensive game for a big man. You can't ask for much more. FYI, I'll take predicable efficiency over inconsistent all over the map offense any day.

    Bosh can post you up, he can beat you off the dribble, he can hit the mid range with the best of big men and he can step back further and drain the long bomb if you get him space and time.
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jan 14th, 2010 at 02:39 PM.

  16. #96
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    I think you guys underestimate how difficult it is to guard CB. First, guarding someone one-on-one is lot harder than guarding someone ingame, since there is potentially help if you get beaten. Unless the person is a post-player with poor handle who can't shoot...then you just make them put the ball on the floor and pick up their dribble.

    Anyway, predictability is not an issue. In one-on-one, you want to get your points as efficiently as possible. I.e., you want to get layups, open jumpers.

    CBs game is almost perfect for one-on-one play:
    1) Very good shooter.
    2) Quick first step.
    3) Ability to go in either direction.

    Given this, if you concede the shot he will hit the jumper at a very high rate. If you attempt to take away the shot, than (2) and (3) mean you need to have very good footspeed and lateral quickness. Otherwise, you'll simply be blown by.

    Bargnani is good at a lot of things, but I don't think he'd be effective at both taking away the shot and recovering to prevent the drive.
    I think someone like Lamar Odom (who can play some SF), Nene (who is very strong and quick), or KG would be the best people to guard CB one-on-one. I.e., you want an exceptionally long and quick PF. Bargs is bulky and long, but by no means quick.

    I think Bargnani's best bet is in attacking Bosh is in the post. Bosh does struggle with people who weigh more than him. I don't think attacking him from the outside makes sense...CB can even guard SFs for short periods of time (e.g., Granger), so he wouldn't have much difficulty with Barg's perimeter game.

  17. #97
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    I think you guys underestimate how difficult it is to guard CB. First, guarding someone one-on-one is lot harder than guarding someone ingame, since there is potentially help if you get beaten. Unless the person is a post-player with poor handle who can't shoot...then you just make them put the ball on the floor and pick up their dribble.

    Anyway, predictability is not an issue. In one-on-one, you want to get your points as efficiently as possible. I.e., you want to get layups, open jumpers.

    CBs game is almost perfect for one-on-one play:
    1) Very good shooter.
    2) Quick first step.
    3) Ability to go in either direction.

    Given this, if you concede the shot he will hit the jumper at a very high rate. If you attempt to take away the shot, than (2) and (3) mean you need to have very good footspeed and lateral quickness. Otherwise, you'll simply be blown by.

    Bargnani is good at a lot of things, but I don't think he'd be effective at both taking away the shot and recovering to prevent the drive.
    I think someone like Lamar Odom (who can play some SF), Nene (who is very strong and quick), or KG would be the best people to guard CB one-on-one. I.e., you want an exceptionally long and quick PF. Bargs is bulky and long, but by no means quick.

    I think Bargnani's best bet is in attacking Bosh is in the post. Bosh does struggle with people who weigh more than him. I don't think attacking him from the outside makes sense...CB can even guard SFs for short periods of time (e.g., Granger), so he wouldn't have much difficulty with Barg's perimeter game.
    Excellent post Ripp. I am as guilty as everyone else in this thread for missing an important point you touched on. Bosh is just as good finishing around the rim with either hand. This is such an overlooked quality. Thanks for pointing it out to us.

    You may be write about Bargnani attacking Bosh in the post if this were last season but Bosh's body has changed a lot since then...

  18. #98
    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Bosh can go inside and outside. One of the strongest moves in his game is beating guys off the dribble. Bargnani isn't quick enough on his feet and as of this year he no longer can bully around the now muscular Chris Bosh. Bosh has the complete offensive game for a big man. You can't ask for much more. FYI, I'll take predicable efficiency over inconsistent all over the map offense any day.

    Bosh can post you up, he can beat you off the dribble, he can hit the mid range with the best of big men and he can step back further and drain the long bomb if you get him space and time.
    Bosh doesn't have a three like Bargs does, i dont really consider hitting 5 three's or whatever it is this year having an outside game, he's got a mid range shot but so does Bargs. In one on one games u get the ball at the three point line so Bosh would have to dribble to set up his low post game. He cant drive full speed from the 3 like Bargs can, Bosh's game is really robotic but very efficient, Bargs is really creative and in my eyes has more weapons and therefore it would be a close one on one game, Bosh wouldn't destroy Bargs thats for sure.

    Bosh is a good shooter because of that mid range shot. Bargs is sharpshooter come one now !!! Also in One on One play you need Ballhandling and we all know Bosh does not have that, Bargs on the other hand for a man his size may have the best in the league , I cant even think who at 7 feet can drive like that except Disco Dirk .
    Last edited by rdiaz101; Thu Jan 14th, 2010 at 03:21 PM.

  19. #99
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    It just seemed obvious to me...guys who can shoot open shots, can drive with either hand, and have a quick first step are pretty much unguardable in one-on-one :P

    I dunno, Bosh is still a skinny dude. He has long arms and good fundamentals, but just can't keep muscle on his body. It makes a lot of sense to attack him in the post, since it will consume a lot of his energy. Which then means his jumper starts falling short, etc.

  20. #100
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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    Bosh doesn't have a three like Bargs does, i dont really consider hitting 5 three's or whatever it is this year having an outside game, he's got a mid range shot but so does Bargs. In one on one games u get the ball at the three point line so Bosh would have to dribble to set up his low post game. He cant drive full speed from the 3 like Bargs can, Bosh's game is really robotic but very efficient, Bargs is really creative and in my eyes has more weapons and therefore it would be a close one on one game, Bosh wouldn't destroy Bargs thats for sure.

    Bosh is a good shooter because of that mid range shot. Bargs is sharpshooter come one now !!! Also in One on One play you need Ballhandling and we all know Bosh does not have that, Bargs on the other hand for a man his size may have the best in the league , I cant even think who at 7 feet can drive like that except Disco Dirk .
    I don't know if this is a bad shooting year for Bargs, but he isn't a particularly good 3 point shooter. He is hitting only 36% of his 3s this year, and is a career 37.4% shooter. Also, this is bit worse than it appears, since most of his 3s are relatively uncontested. The amount of pressure Bargs gets from a 4 or 5 guarding you at the three point line is far less than that a typical 1/2/3 gets.
    Hrm, in comparison, Troy Murphy (http://www.basketball-reference.com/...murphtr01.html) is at 40% for his career.

    Anyway, there is no way for us to know how good CB is from three, since he almost never shoots them in game. I'd imagine he is a very good 3 point shooter, since his midrange game is quite money..

    Regarding "creative" and such (something which I've seen no evidence for), that is just not good for one-on-one. You do not want to spend a lot of time dribbling or crossing anyone over, you want to maximize the number of high-percentage plays you can get. Ideally, you are mixing relatively open jumpers and layups.
    The easiest way to lose one-on-one is to spend a lot more of your energy scoring points than the other person.

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