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  • #91
    verbatim wrote: View Post
    I think Bosh would own Bargnani. Mind you, Bosh has moved his game inside this year, which suits Bargnani. But I mean, Bosh gives fits to even the best defenders in the league on most nights. Bosh commands a double every possession of the 4th. I gotta disagree Bendit.

    Mind you, I don't think Bosh would able to guard Bargs particularly well either though...
    Bosh would win but he wouldnt own Bargs. Andrea has the Three's and can drive just as good as Bosh can, his inside game is just not as polished and they both have good mid range shots . It would come down to one shot with Bosh probably using his pattened fake shot then driving to the hole left handed lay up. I wonder if they ever play one on one in practice ?
    "Hello, Hello !.....You Play to Win the GAME!!"

    Herm Edwards

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    • #92
      Bosh can make virtually any shot on the court and is far more consistent. I think Bosh would whoop Bargnani.

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      • #93
        Apollo wrote: View Post
        Bosh can make virtually any shot on the court and is far more consistent. I think Bosh would whoop Bargnani.
        You're dreaming in a One on One game Bosh would be way too predictable, Andrea can go Inside or Ouside anytime, he's a way better ballhandler than bosh too. Andrea's only problem is he's just too streaky.
        "Hello, Hello !.....You Play to Win the GAME!!"

        Herm Edwards

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        • #94
          rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
          You're dreaming in a One on One game Bosh would be way too predictable, Andrea can go Inside or Ouside anytime, he's a way better ballhandler than bosh too. Andrea's only problem is he's just too streaky.
          I got to agree, I think Bargnani could beat Bosh one-on-one for the reasons you cited.

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          • #95
            rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
            You're dreaming in a One on One game Bosh would be way too predictable, Andrea can go Inside or Ouside anytime, he's a way better ballhandler than bosh too. Andrea's only problem is he's just too streaky.
            Bosh can go inside and outside. One of the strongest moves in his game is beating guys off the dribble. Bargnani isn't quick enough on his feet and as of this year he no longer can bully around the now muscular Chris Bosh. Bosh has the complete offensive game for a big man. You can't ask for much more. FYI, I'll take predicable efficiency over inconsistent all over the map offense any day.

            Bosh can post you up, he can beat you off the dribble, he can hit the mid range with the best of big men and he can step back further and drain the long bomb if you get him space and time.
            Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jan 14, 2010, 03:39 PM.

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            • #96
              I think you guys underestimate how difficult it is to guard CB. First, guarding someone one-on-one is lot harder than guarding someone ingame, since there is potentially help if you get beaten. Unless the person is a post-player with poor handle who can't shoot...then you just make them put the ball on the floor and pick up their dribble.

              Anyway, predictability is not an issue. In one-on-one, you want to get your points as efficiently as possible. I.e., you want to get layups, open jumpers.

              CBs game is almost perfect for one-on-one play:
              1) Very good shooter.
              2) Quick first step.
              3) Ability to go in either direction.

              Given this, if you concede the shot he will hit the jumper at a very high rate. If you attempt to take away the shot, than (2) and (3) mean you need to have very good footspeed and lateral quickness. Otherwise, you'll simply be blown by.

              Bargnani is good at a lot of things, but I don't think he'd be effective at both taking away the shot and recovering to prevent the drive.
              I think someone like Lamar Odom (who can play some SF), Nene (who is very strong and quick), or KG would be the best people to guard CB one-on-one. I.e., you want an exceptionally long and quick PF. Bargs is bulky and long, but by no means quick.

              I think Bargnani's best bet is in attacking Bosh is in the post. Bosh does struggle with people who weigh more than him. I don't think attacking him from the outside makes sense...CB can even guard SFs for short periods of time (e.g., Granger), so he wouldn't have much difficulty with Barg's perimeter game.

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              • #97
                Ripp wrote: View Post
                I think you guys underestimate how difficult it is to guard CB. First, guarding someone one-on-one is lot harder than guarding someone ingame, since there is potentially help if you get beaten. Unless the person is a post-player with poor handle who can't shoot...then you just make them put the ball on the floor and pick up their dribble.

                Anyway, predictability is not an issue. In one-on-one, you want to get your points as efficiently as possible. I.e., you want to get layups, open jumpers.

                CBs game is almost perfect for one-on-one play:
                1) Very good shooter.
                2) Quick first step.
                3) Ability to go in either direction.

                Given this, if you concede the shot he will hit the jumper at a very high rate. If you attempt to take away the shot, than (2) and (3) mean you need to have very good footspeed and lateral quickness. Otherwise, you'll simply be blown by.

                Bargnani is good at a lot of things, but I don't think he'd be effective at both taking away the shot and recovering to prevent the drive.
                I think someone like Lamar Odom (who can play some SF), Nene (who is very strong and quick), or KG would be the best people to guard CB one-on-one. I.e., you want an exceptionally long and quick PF. Bargs is bulky and long, but by no means quick.

                I think Bargnani's best bet is in attacking Bosh is in the post. Bosh does struggle with people who weigh more than him. I don't think attacking him from the outside makes sense...CB can even guard SFs for short periods of time (e.g., Granger), so he wouldn't have much difficulty with Barg's perimeter game.
                Excellent post Ripp. I am as guilty as everyone else in this thread for missing an important point you touched on. Bosh is just as good finishing around the rim with either hand. This is such an overlooked quality. Thanks for pointing it out to us.

                You may be write about Bargnani attacking Bosh in the post if this were last season but Bosh's body has changed a lot since then...

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                • #98
                  Apollo wrote: View Post
                  Bosh can go inside and outside. One of the strongest moves in his game is beating guys off the dribble. Bargnani isn't quick enough on his feet and as of this year he no longer can bully around the now muscular Chris Bosh. Bosh has the complete offensive game for a big man. You can't ask for much more. FYI, I'll take predicable efficiency over inconsistent all over the map offense any day.

                  Bosh can post you up, he can beat you off the dribble, he can hit the mid range with the best of big men and he can step back further and drain the long bomb if you get him space and time.
                  Bosh doesn't have a three like Bargs does, i dont really consider hitting 5 three's or whatever it is this year having an outside game, he's got a mid range shot but so does Bargs. In one on one games u get the ball at the three point line so Bosh would have to dribble to set up his low post game. He cant drive full speed from the 3 like Bargs can, Bosh's game is really robotic but very efficient, Bargs is really creative and in my eyes has more weapons and therefore it would be a close one on one game, Bosh wouldn't destroy Bargs thats for sure.

                  Bosh is a good shooter because of that mid range shot. Bargs is sharpshooter come one now !!! Also in One on One play you need Ballhandling and we all know Bosh does not have that, Bargs on the other hand for a man his size may have the best in the league , I cant even think who at 7 feet can drive like that except Disco Dirk .
                  Last edited by rdiaz101; Thu Jan 14, 2010, 04:21 PM.
                  "Hello, Hello !.....You Play to Win the GAME!!"

                  Herm Edwards

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                  • #99
                    It just seemed obvious to me...guys who can shoot open shots, can drive with either hand, and have a quick first step are pretty much unguardable in one-on-one :P

                    I dunno, Bosh is still a skinny dude. He has long arms and good fundamentals, but just can't keep muscle on his body. It makes a lot of sense to attack him in the post, since it will consume a lot of his energy. Which then means his jumper starts falling short, etc.

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                    • .

                      rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
                      Bosh doesn't have a three like Bargs does, i dont really consider hitting 5 three's or whatever it is this year having an outside game, he's got a mid range shot but so does Bargs. In one on one games u get the ball at the three point line so Bosh would have to dribble to set up his low post game. He cant drive full speed from the 3 like Bargs can, Bosh's game is really robotic but very efficient, Bargs is really creative and in my eyes has more weapons and therefore it would be a close one on one game, Bosh wouldn't destroy Bargs thats for sure.

                      Bosh is a good shooter because of that mid range shot. Bargs is sharpshooter come one now !!! Also in One on One play you need Ballhandling and we all know Bosh does not have that, Bargs on the other hand for a man his size may have the best in the league , I cant even think who at 7 feet can drive like that except Disco Dirk .
                      I don't know if this is a bad shooting year for Bargs, but he isn't a particularly good 3 point shooter. He is hitting only 36% of his 3s this year, and is a career 37.4% shooter. Also, this is bit worse than it appears, since most of his 3s are relatively uncontested. The amount of pressure Bargs gets from a 4 or 5 guarding you at the three point line is far less than that a typical 1/2/3 gets.
                      Hrm, in comparison, Troy Murphy (http://www.basketball-reference.com/...murphtr01.html) is at 40% for his career.

                      Anyway, there is no way for us to know how good CB is from three, since he almost never shoots them in game. I'd imagine he is a very good 3 point shooter, since his midrange game is quite money..

                      Regarding "creative" and such (something which I've seen no evidence for), that is just not good for one-on-one. You do not want to spend a lot of time dribbling or crossing anyone over, you want to maximize the number of high-percentage plays you can get. Ideally, you are mixing relatively open jumpers and layups.
                      The easiest way to lose one-on-one is to spend a lot more of your energy scoring points than the other person.

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                      • rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
                        Bosh doesn't have a three like Bargs does, i dont really consider hitting 5 three's or whatever it is this year having an outside game
                        He's proven he can hit it. He chooses not to use it because he doesn't need to and it doesn't benefit the team to have the offensive focal point dialing it up from long range when his interior and mid range game may be overall the best in the league among big men. Either way its irrelevant. Why? Well you tell me how many looks Bargnani is going to get from behind the arc in a game of one-on-one...

                        Also, can you tell me how many times each guy gets to the line and what their FG%'s are?

                        One more thing. How many double teams is Bargnani drawing nightly while he posts his current numbers? Which player is more likely to see a dip in product should the other not be there to draw focused attention from the defense?
                        Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jan 14, 2010, 04:46 PM.

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                        • Apollo wrote: View Post
                          He's proven he can hit it. He chooses not to use it because he doesn't need to and it doesn't benefit the team to have the offensive focal point dialing it up from long range when his interior and mid range game may be overall the best in the league among big men. Either way its irrelevant. Why? Well you tell me how many looks Bargnani is going to get from behind the arc in a game of one-on-one...

                          Also, can you tell me how many times each guy gets to the line and what their FG%'s are?

                          One more thing. How many double teams is Bargnani drawing nightly while he posts his current numbers? Which player is more likely to see a dip in product should the other not be there to draw focused attention from the defense?
                          Troy Murphy is a PF not a Center and we're talking about one on one Bargs vs Bosh so i dont see how he has anything to do with this discussion. Yes Bosh has proven he can hit the three,even tho 6/13 is not really a huge stat but whatever he hit those . Bargs is still a better because he shoots more and makes more with people in his face unlike the ones Bosh hit those were ucontested. Bargs has hit big threes the one agaisnt the Spurs last week comes to mind.

                          I dont know what their FG percentage and how many times each gets to the lineor Bargs drawing double teams matters we are talking about One on One here. Bargs not creative ??? we are talking about a 7 footer who can shoot, drive and pass if thats not creative for a Center i dont know what is. Also all im trying to say is Bargs would not get owned by bosh in ONE on ONE especally with the way he has been defending this year.
                          "Hello, Hello !.....You Play to Win the GAME!!"

                          Herm Edwards

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                          • rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
                            Troy Murphy is a PF not a Center and we're talking about one on one Bargs vs Bosh so i dont see how he has anything to do with this discussion. Yes Bosh has proven he can hit the three,even tho 6/13 is not really a huge stat but whatever he hit those . Bargs is still a better because he shoots more and makes more with people in his face unlike the ones Bosh hit those were ucontested. Bargs has hit big threes the one agaisnt the Spurs last week comes to mind.

                            I dont know what their FG percentage and how many times each gets to the lineor Bargs drawing double teams matters we are talking about One on One here. Bargs not creative ??? we are talking about a 7 footer who can shoot, drive and pass if thats not creative for a Center i dont know what is. Also all im trying to say is Bargs would not get owned by bosh in ONE on ONE especally with the way he has been defending this year.
                            Yeah, we're talking one on one ball so the 3-ball is irrelevant. Bosh faces Bargnani instead of a double team. Bargnani faces Bosh instead some other single coverage match up.

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                            • Apollo wrote: View Post
                              The difference here is that the Raptors are willing to spend with the big boys.
                              really?...you think they are gonna go over the cap?...dont think so buddy...

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                              • They're already way over cap.

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