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Thread: Jose to the Lakers (update post 17)

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Jose to the Lakers (update post 17)

    http://basketball.realgm.com/tradech..._trade/5976057


    This trade is supposedly successful according to RealGM Trade Checker (ESPN Trade Machine down for updates).


    To LA:
    Jose Calderon

    To Toronto:
    Derek Fisher
    2012 first round pick from LAL
    2012 first round pick from DAL (top 20 protected until 2017)



    Rationale:

    LA: major upgrade at point guard. Have court sets with Mike Brown is very much suited to Jose. Distributing to Kobe, Pau, and Bynum would certainly be a thing of beauty considering how efficient and effective he is with Toronto's roster.


    TOR: it might not be a fan favourite at this time but for the long term it would be a good move. Fisher has a $3.7M option for 2012-13. I would not see him picking it up. If he does, then we have an overpaid AC for next year plus an Extra $6.8M of cap space. If he does not, which I would expect him not to, then Toronto has an extra $10.5M in cap space. The most likely outcome would be Fisher bought out immediately following trade and never reporting to Toronto. The 2 first round draft picks would further add to BC's arsenal of assets. With 3 first round draft picks, cap space, young prospects in ED and *gasp!* possibly DD, and a solid rotational player in Amir, the Raptors could be real players in a blockbuster trade with top talent going to Toronto. For those advocating tanking in 2012, with Bayless starting the tank would most certainly be on.



    This is highly unlikely but a trade I would do in a heart beat with an eye on the very immediate future.

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    I find it amazing that would work out salary wise as a trade, but again the Lakers cannot trade both picks, they did not have a 1st rounder last year.

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    Yeah, the trade would have to be set up such that the Raps get the better of the two picks automatically (if you only get one...).

    Trick is that JC is worth more to LA the earlier the trade is made. So get on it already BC!

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    The Raptors have some talented young players right now. Even in a strong draft, two mid to late first rounders are not likely to put them over the top. They have to get lucky in the lottery somehow as they need a couple of star players to add to the fold somehow. That's the knock on the Pacers right now that they are lacking a star though they have many quality players and depth at every position.

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    I find it amazing that would work out salary wise as a trade, but again the Lakers cannot trade both picks, they did not have a 1st rounder last year.
    I asked Larry Coon about this once.

    The Lakers have a 2013 pick therefore they can trade 2 this year. The consecutive draft pick rule is forward looking.

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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    The Raptors have some talented young players right now. Even in a strong draft, two mid to late first rounders are not likely to put them over the top. They have to get lucky in the lottery somehow as they need a couple of star players to add to the fold somehow. That's the knock on the Pacers right now that they are lacking a star though they have many quality players and depth at every position.
    Having more cap space and assets could help in landing some star power by means of other than the draft (read: free agency and/or trade - or both via sign and trade).

    I feel confident the Raptors will have an opportunity to draft a star player with their own pick and two 20-sonething picks could easily be packaged as incentives in other trades. I would not be looking to have 3 (possibly 4 with 2nd round pick) rookies on the team next year.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I asked Larry Coon about this once.

    The Lakers have a 2013 pick therefore they can trade 2 this year. The consecutive draft pick rule is forward looking.
    Very cool, I didn't know that I was understanding it had to be continuous. I have to change my model. Thanks for the heads up clarification!!

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    I'm very surprised it works out salary wise as well. Jose makes 9.8 million, Fisher makes 3.4 - even with the 125% rule, it's insane to see it working out.

    I'm sure Fisher would be disappointed, but I can't see the head of the NBAPA being a complete dick and refusing to play in Toronto. I know one of his kids has a medical issue (or had a medical issue), so being near a good children's hospital would be paramount - something Toronto has in Sick Kids.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I'm very surprised it works out salary wise as well. Jose makes 9.8 million, Fisher makes 3.4 - even with the 125% rule, it's insane to see it working out.

    I'm sure Fisher would be disappointed, but I can't see the head of the NBAPA being a complete dick and refusing to play in Toronto. I know one of his kids has a medical issue (or had a medical issue), so being near a good children's hospital would be paramount - something Toronto has in Sick Kids.
    Daughter had eye issues and needed to be near a specialized hospital which LA was one of a few in the US. Not sure if sick kids can, but would make sense if it does.

    Fisher would come and play, I think what Matt was saying is Fisher would likely not exercise his player option for next season.

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Fisher would come and play, I think what Matt was saying is Fisher would likely not exercise his player option for next season.
    If he doesn't exercise that player option, that would be alright with me. It's not like he makes a boatload of money next season. The flip side of that is that with him being close to done, would he dare opt out of that contract?

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I'm very surprised it works out salary wise as well. Jose makes 9.8 million, Fisher makes 3.4 - even with the 125% rule, it's insane to see it working out.

    I'm sure Fisher would be disappointed, but I can't see the head of the NBAPA being a complete dick and refusing to play in Toronto. I know one of his kids has a medical issue (or had a medical issue), so being near a good children's hospital would be paramount - something Toronto has in Sick Kids.
    Yeah, I'm not sure how it works out either. The only way I can see it working would be if Lamar Odom had a trade bonus in his contract. Usually they are about 10%. So when he was traded to DAL his trade exemption going back to the Lakers would be about $9.8M which would cover Jose's contract.

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    I would do this trade.. Which is weird because I love Jose. Realistically.. Jose has another two years of effectiveness and we're not that close yet. We'll never get more for him than we will right now.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    No way I pull the trigger on this deal.

    And if BC did, I'd be HUGELY disappointed.
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

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    The argument I have heard most against a trade such as this is that the Lakers would have essentially turned Lamar Odom (a key piece to their championships and the 6th man of the year) and a first round pick (albeit a low one) into Calderon.

    Odom was an essential piece to what the Lakers have done the past few years, but due to his fading athleticism could only play the SF spot for limited minutes. This meant that he was playing behind both Gasol and Bynum. The Lakers essentially decided to go in a cheaper route with their big men by turning the back-up role over to McRoberts, which has been adequate for them. With Dalls Odom becomes an expiring contract that theoretically should help Dallas stay competitive for the year after the departure of Chandler. How is Odom doing in Dallas? He has played in all 9 games this year for Dallas and has a PER of 5.3. 5.3!!

    Now let's look at the Lakers: Although they rank 11th in the league in assists, their PG productive has been abysmal so far this year. In just under 24min/game, Fischer is currently putting up 4.4ppg and 4.4 apg, with a PER of 8.3. Whereas Steve Blake is 8.1ppg and 2.6apg in just under 25min/game, with a PER of 11.

    Looking at those numbers it is clear that Claderon is playing better then any of the aforementioned players at this time. Calderon currently has a top 5 PER for PGs (21.77) and has been the most consistent Raptor. If Calderon is able to produce like this with the Raptors roster, I would be very intrigued what a Gasol/Calderon Pick n' Roll would produce, especially give their experience together on the international stage. The only real reason I struggle seeing the Lakers take this trade is that they would be giving up two first round picks due to the financial obligation of taking Calderon.

    The Raptors would have awful ball movement most nights without Calderon. I would still do this deal if the Lakers were to include Fischer and either Dallas or Lakers first round pick (whichever is higher).

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    Quote Shantz wrote: View Post
    The argument I have heard most against a trade such as this is that the Lakers would have essentially turned Lamar Odom (a key piece to their championships and the 6th man of the year) and a first round pick (albeit a low one) into Calderon.

    Odom was an essential piece to what the Lakers have done the past few years, but due to his fading athleticism could only play the SF spot for limited minutes. This meant that he was playing behind both Gasol and Bynum. The Lakers essentially decided to go in a cheaper route with their big men by turning the back-up role over to McRoberts, which has been adequate for them. With Dalls Odom becomes an expiring contract that theoretically should help Dallas stay competitive for the year after the departure of Chandler. How is Odom doing in Dallas? He has played in all 9 games this year for Dallas and has a PER of 5.3. 5.3!!

    Now let's look at the Lakers: Although they rank 11th in the league in assists, their PG productive has been abysmal so far this year. In just under 24min/game, Fischer is currently putting up 4.4ppg and 4.4 apg, with a PER of 8.3. Whereas Steve Blake is 8.1ppg and 2.6apg in just under 25min/game, with a PER of 11.

    Looking at those numbers it is clear that Claderon is playing better then any of the aforementioned players at this time. Calderon currently has a top 5 PER for PGs (21.77) and has been the most consistent Raptor. If Calderon is able to produce like this with the Raptors roster, I would be very intrigued what a Gasol/Calderon Pick n' Roll would produce, especially give their experience together on the international stage. The only real reason I struggle seeing the Lakers take this trade is that they would be giving up two first round picks due to the financial obligation of taking Calderon.

    The Raptors would have awful ball movement most nights without Calderon. I would still do this deal if the Lakers were to include Fischer and either Dallas or Lakers first round pick (whichever is higher).
    No doubt there would be few people able to say the tank was not on.

    I would want both picks for the very reasons you gave regarding Jose and the current Laker PG situation.

    If they were unwilling to include both picks, I'd want the higher and Darius Morris.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    No way I pull the trigger on this deal.

    And if BC did, I'd be HUGELY disappointed.
    I could see why you'd feel this way.

    For me it would be all about what BC could do in the summer with the cap space - and I am talking much more than free agency, but not excluding it either.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    No doubt there would be few people able to say the tank was not on.

    I would want both picks for the very reasons you gave regarding Jose and the current Laker PG situation.

    If they were unwilling to include both picks, I'd want the higher and Darius Morris.
    That is very true...the Lakers are burdened with two poor PGs right now and could, in theory, improve quite drastically with the addition of a good game manager. And the ironic thing right now is that Jose is very likely the best PG available by trade. Who is is out there this season? If someone is looking for an upgrade their options currently seem to be Jose Calderon or Gilbert Arenas (can you say toxic?).

    I would love to get both picks from the Lakers, but I would say they baulk at the asking price. But two first round picks (even low end) would be a very nice haul for Jose.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure how it works out either. The only way I can see it working would be if Lamar Odom had a trade bonus in his contract. Usually they are about 10%. So when he was traded to DAL his trade exemption going back to the Lakers would be about $9.8M which would cover Jose's contract.
    I think Odom's contract must have had a trade kicker that increased the TPE the Lakers received from DAL.

    Calderon to the Lakers with nothing in return also works: http://basketball.realgm.com/tradech..._trade/5977731


    The alternative is the RealGM Trade Checker is wrong.


    Assuming this is correct, this is the trade I'd float to the Lakers for Jose:

    Darius Morris
    2012 Lakers pick
    2012 Mavs pick



    Morris gets a tryout for the Raptors for the remainder of the season (he has not played in LA yet). He had good numbers in Michigan last year with 15 pts on 49% shooting and 6.7 ast per game. He also has good size at 6'4" and 190lbs.

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    Quote Shantz wrote: View Post
    That is very true...the Lakers are burdened with two poor PGs right now and could, in theory, improve quite drastically with the addition of a good game manager. And the ironic thing right now is that Jose is very likely the best PG available by trade. Who is is out there this season? If someone is looking for an upgrade their options currently seem to be Jose Calderon or Gilbert Arenas (can you say toxic?).

    I would love to get both picks from the Lakers, but I would say they baulk at the asking price. But two first round picks (even low end) would be a very nice haul for Jose.
    You can argue that Maurice Williams is better than Jose (and cheaper), and he's expendable since LAC has Paul now. LA could try and make a deal there - but they may not want to deal with their bastard of a brother either.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think Odom's contract must have had a trade kicker that increased the TPE the Lakers received from DAL.

    Calderon to the Lakers with nothing in return also works: http://basketball.realgm.com/tradech..._trade/5977731



    The alternative is the RealGM Trade Checker is wrong.


    Assuming this is correct, this is the trade I'd float to the Lakers for Jose:

    Darius Morris
    2012 Lakers pick
    2012 Mavs pick



    Morris gets a tryout for the Raptors for the remainder of the season (he has not played in LA yet). He had good numbers in Michigan last year with 15 pts on 49% shooting and 6.7 ast per game. He also has good size at 6'4" and 190lbs.
    I would definitely go for this. I like Morris, and he played decently in the preseason game for the Lakers. He also reportedly worked harder and ran faster than any other Laker in camp. Of course he isn't 200yrs old like the rest of the Lakers outside of Goudelock, Ebanks and Caracter.

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