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Thread: Marc Gasol suprised at how Raptors fans view Jose Calderon

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Marc Gasol suprised at how Raptors fans view Jose Calderon

    The question is how surprised Gasol is that Calderon, one of the most efficient point guards in the league — his 4.74 assists per turnover laps the rest of the league this season — is continually being run out of town by fans who want him traded or in the case of last season, actually traded and then brought back when the deal fell through.

    “It does surprise me,” Gasol said. “All he cares about his making his teammates better and winning. In the league those guys are hard to find. Guys that just play the right way and get everyone involved and move the ball. They don’t care about anything else but winning.”

    That in a nutshell is Calderon. He is so intent on getting a shot for a teammate that he often passes up good shots for himself which also brings on criticism. That kind of unselfishness would seem ideal in a point guard, but apparently he’s not everyone’s cup of tea.
    Source: Toronto Sun

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I don't understand it either.

    To be honest, I'd be happy if he never left.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I don't understand it either.

    To be honest, I'd be happy if he never left.
    +10000000

    Jose is the second best player on this team. I don't get wanting to move him at all.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Keep Jose. Keep Jose. Keep Jose. Let him retire a Raptor. One of the best all-time IMO. Great story for him too.

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    Just another day of the average Raptors fan.

    I'll admit that there were times I wanted Jose traded, but only because I recognized his skill and what he could bring back. I have the utmost respect for him (his skill and more importantly, his attitude).

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    Jose is easily top 10 PG in the league if not top 5...the MOST loyal player in the NBA, let him retire a raptor!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    i like jose i just hate his contract LOL

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    Another vote for keeping Jose. He has improved his defense and as the trade rumours percolate, it is evident that he is easy to covet and hard to replace.

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    I would bet that most in favour of moving him is not because of how he plays nor the person & teammate he is but that the state of the ongoing evolution of this team alongwith his age, current value, salary/term and the possible return makes him a valuable trade asset. I would be very unhappy if he did not bring back a 1st at the very least (in this good draft). If not, I would rather keep him. This is about the long term progress of the team not about any one player. His position is an important one (my own belief is that pg & centre are the most important) so it becomes an even more difficult especially when we dont have a currently available replacement. Difficult choice but one in my view which needs to be done...with "value" coming back.

    The Grizzlies are a very nice team but even they are going to come up against some cap reality. I bet a lot of their fans dont want to move Mayo...but he maybe gone soon or after this year....or Zach R.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    ...his position is an important one (my own belief is that pg & centre are the most important) so it becomes an even more difficult especially when we dont have a currently available replacement. Difficult choice but one in my view which needs to be done...with "value" coming back....
    When you have a PG who is acknowledged "top five" in the league, then you are not going to get value back unless you are willing to go forward with a less than "top five " PG replacement (remember this is one of the two most important positions on the team) and can acquire a "top three" something else.

    Much of the talk around trading Jose has been predicated on the belief that this will be his best year and he is facing some steep drop off starting next year (whether due to age or injury). I would argue against both of those conclusions. His role on the Spanish national team will be reduced. And I think he is in tremendous shape. I believe he can play at this or near this level for another 3 - 4 years. He could well be at or near his peak when the Raptors are hitting their stride. Given the roster that is going to be hear for the next 2-3 years, the Raptors need a PG who makes his team mates better.

    I don't see anyone coming up, or any likely trades who can do that better than Jose. I strive to imagine his assist numbers if the Raptors, as a team, weren't shooting at the 27th position for effective FG%

    http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

    Keep him.

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    Default It's Quite Simple Actually

    I don't get why people can't understand why fans want Jose traded. Don't get me wrong, he is a great player, but I want him moved for the following reasons:

    1. Despite what was mentioned in this thread, he is not a "top 5" point guard in the league. I'd say top 10 likely, but top 5 is a huge stretch.
    2. His contract isn't great.
    3. At 30 years old, he's really at his peak right now and will only get worse. In 2-3 years, when the raps are potentially contending for something, will he be the guy we want running this team? I.E. he's not the point guard of the future on a rebuilding team such as the raps.
    4. When he has another dud of a year like he did last year, we'll all be lamenting why he wasn't traded when he was at his peak value such as right now.

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    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    Top 5? Where would you put Calderon in this list?

    Rose
    CP3
    D Will
    Westbrook
    Rondo
    Nash
    Parker
    Lowry
    Jennings
    John Wall
    Kyrie Irving
    Teague
    Ty Lawson
    Ricky Rubio
    Stephen Curry
    Dru Holiday
    Mike Conley
    Tyreke Evans
    Devin Harris

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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    When you have a PG who is acknowledged "top five" in the league, then you are not going to get value back unless you are willing to go forward with a less than "top five " PG replacement (remember this is one of the two most important positions on the team) and can acquire a "top three" something else.

    Much of the talk around trading Jose has been predicated on the belief that this will be his best year and he is facing some steep drop off starting next year (whether due to age or injury). I would argue against both of those conclusions. His role on the Spanish national team will be reduced. And I think he is in tremendous shape. I believe he can play at this or near this level for another 3 - 4 years. He could well be at or near his peak when the Raptors are hitting their stride. Given the roster that is going to be hear for the next 2-3 years, the Raptors need a PG who makes his team mates better.

    I don't see anyone coming up, or any likely trades who can do that better than Jose. I strive to imagine his assist numbers if the Raptors, as a team, weren't shooting at the 27th position for effective FG%

    http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

    Keep him.
    There is no doubt that this is a difficult descision especially after the year he is having. I will ask if you felt the same way when he just about became a Bobcat last year? Maybe unfair question but such are the ups & downs of the nba and individual players. Jose has been here a few years but not all have been of this vintage. How sure can we be that he will be the same next year and thereafter consistently or could he revert to the previous couple. If we were a playoff team and could afford to keep him for deep runs I would just as the teams who want him seem to be those gearing up for the show....but alas. Hope fully we can get a f/a of some experience to perform the same duties (eg Andre Miller) until we can draft and groom a young one growing with the rest of the team. I assume BC & co. have a plan for that position if they move him.

    I just sense some of the posters (not you necessarily) are being too sentimental about Jose but we all know if we are serious about team building this is a luxury we cannot afford. The decisions made in the next few months are going to be crucial no doubt.

    There is one point you make I will not argue with...the Raptors requiring a PG to make his teammates better...the team also needs more talent in a number of areas including depth. Therein lies the conundrum.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    I'd keep him for his unselfish play and professionalism and of course, because there's no one behind him at his position. Period.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote optifan wrote: View Post
    I don't get why people can't understand why fans want Jose traded. Don't get me wrong, he is a great player, but I want him moved for the following reasons:

    1. Despite what was mentioned in this thread, he is not a "top 5" point guard in the league. I'd say top 10 likely, but top 5 is a huge stretch.
    2. His contract isn't great.
    3. At 30 years old, he's really at his peak right now and will only get worse. In 2-3 years, when the raps are potentially contending for something, will he be the guy we want running this team? I.E. he's not the point guard of the future on a rebuilding team such as the raps.
    4. When he has another dud of a year like he did last year, we'll all be lamenting why he wasn't traded when he was at his peak value such as right now.
    I most definitely agree with most of this except top 10 is also a huge stretch.

    I would also like to point out Toronto has never finished better than .500 with him as the starting PG (that was 4 years ago) and he was the starting PG for 22 win team last year and the 4th worst team by record in the league this year. The Raptors need talent upgrades all over the roster and PG is no different.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    You could argue either way whether or not he's a top ten PG. If he's inside the top ten it's on the boarder but I don't see why that even should matter. Most people who are in favor of him being traded feel he doesn't fit where the team is heading and not that they feel isn't good PG. I'm on the fence. I can see good scenario where he stays and I can see good scenarios where he goes. I'm not expecting much out of this team right now in terms of wins and losses so i could care less if the offense derails for the rest of the season if they get some good assets in return for the guy. On the flip side he's been in Toronto a long time, has always been positive and produces so, you know, I wouldn't be broken up by him staying.

    And whoever said his contract is bad, come on. Two seasons at $10M/yr is not bad. Based on rumors the phones are ringing off the hook for him. A bad contract is one you can't easily move. Calderon seems to be in high demand. His contract is easy to move and it's not like they're in cap trouble. Money should only come into this if he's not in Colangelo's game plan and the contract is blocking the Raptors from signing or acquiring someone who is in Colangelo's game plan.

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    WRONG. Jose is the best playmaker ever. He is better playmaker than CP3 or Rose (playmaker i mean, not the player). And Jose will own next six years at least, leading Raptors to rings in a 3-5 years from now.
    The biggest mistake Raptors can do is trade Jose out now.

    "Jose will be injured this summer", so we should trade him right now to get the best value of his play.
    "it is bullshit i don't want to comment.. he will lead Raptors to rings in 3-5 years i'm sure."
    Nash is Canadian dream.
    P.S.i see rings 4 years from now, and Jose is included.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote irgigi wrote: View Post
    WRONG. Jose is the best playmaker ever. He is better playmaker than CP3 or Rose (playmaker i mean, not the player). And Jose will own next six years at least, leading Raptors to rings in a 3-5 years from now.
    The biggest mistake Raptors can do is trade Jose out now.

    "Jose will be injured this summer", so we should trade him right now to get the best value of his play.
    "it is bullshit i don't want to comment.. he will lead Raptors to rings in 3-5 years i'm sure."
    Nash is Canadian dream.
    P.S.i see rings 4 years from now, and Jose is included.

    Jose's injury history says there is more to the idea than bullshit.

    Nash being Canadian certainly is a bonus but he also has a history of making players around him better - and even though he is going to be 54 next season, he is still producing at an all-star level. There is nobody better in the NBA at running the pick and roll than Nash - including Jose.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    It is rather simple. Trade him if the deal values Jose correctly, do not trade him if it is anything less then that. We just gotta trust BC to make the right choice. He has been doing a pretty good job with the team and setting up the future so I do not think I am worried. He has a plan and if a deal moving Jose out were to ever happen, I feel it would fit with that plan.

    This whole debate on whether he should be traded or not is based off of 2 risks. The first, keeping him. He may not play well, he is older, his contract is not the best,etc. The second, trading him. Changing personel, losing a veteran, losing someone to run the offense, etc.

    I understand the argument for why he should be traded, but unless the deal is absolutely perfect, I think it would be a risk worth taking keeping Jose simply because when there is more talent on this team (which is hopefully next year) having a guy like Calderon makes the team far better. A PG like Jose with actual scorers to pass to? He will make our team better in the next 2-3 years. He is a strong veteran presence with a core of young guys. He is only 30, it is not like his career stops at 32. Sure production goes down, but it is not like he forgets how to play. To me at least, the positives outweigh the negatives.

    RECAP: Jose is not "untouchable" but should only be traded if the deal values Jose properly.

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    I am one who thinks up many trade scenarios for Jose, but it is born out of the rumours and looking for value (a pick or such to get us a replacement). My absolute preference is to trade Barbosa and other assets to net such a replacement while keeping Jose.

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