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Thread: Dwane Casey's vision of the roster next season: see post 37 for update

  1. #21
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Chandler, Kirilenko, Batum, Nash and Allen jump out immediately.

    I could see BC targeting Allen as a backup SG, to be the Oakley/Dell Curry type player for this Raptors team, but I think he might be too old (and targeted by too many other teams to entice him to sign with Toronto).

    A few other wings caught my attention, as they are tough veterans who can shoot
    - OJ Mayo
    - CJ Miles
    - Josh Howard
    - Courtney Lee
    I don't have a source, sorry guys. I remember in the Raptors half-time interview that BC was looking not just into Chandler, but Andrei Kirilenko as well. If he could come here, I would be very pleased.

    EDIT* Sorry guys, I meant Raptors season at the half.
    Last edited by ReubenJRD; Thu Mar 8th, 2012 at 12:52 PM.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Interesting that he said that after the rockets game, a team that seems to have a few of the type of players he seems to covet.
    @jerboat

  3. #23
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Nocioni stands out to me. He is doing nothing on Philadelphia, he is a VERY physical player, and he will likely be pretty cheap. Ray Allen would be awesome but he would want to start I think. I love Kirelenko, especially as a mentor to James Johnson (very similar defensive play style).

    It depends what we do with guys like Kleiza and who we draft.
    Ray Allen I don't think would mind having a sixth man role, because he's a veteran, and with such a young team on the run, he's more likely to be off the bench IMO.

  4. #24
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Just speculating, but Casey not wanting too much youth for next year may imply that JV is enough and that their first round pick might be a bargaining chip in the trade deadline.
    Gonna be honest to you, if we end up being a 5-10 pick in the lottery I can almost guarantee a trade because MKG/Barnes maybe even Lamb are long gone, and we would have to end up taking a project like PJ3, Quincy Miller, Sullinger (Which I hell hope we don't take). Maybe 1-5 will be a keeper.

  5. #25
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    why the hell isn't ROY doing Microfracture surgery....He is still young and could have a very productive career

  6. #26
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    MKG is staying in school

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't think Portland is permitted to sign Roy until his original deal has run its course. I'm not positive on that but if teams were permitted to do that I could see some real funny business being done with a seriously injured, highly paid player with multiple years left on his contract i.e. you are out for this year, we amnesty you, pay you in full, sign you next year to a cheap deal, and sign a bigtime FA with the cap space savings.

    This of course neglects the fact Roy has no knees left. Personally, I don't think he comes back and, if he does, it is a short return. It is too bad because he was a player.
    Ya your right. amnesty players cant go back to the team that amnestied them till after there original deal with that team has run its course length wise..

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    I hope Casey is not talking about players on their downslide of their careers. I think Ray Allen, AK47 are great players, but I think we should be looking at guys that are battle tested veterans that are in their mid to late 20's. Still veterans that have established their identities already. Courtney Lee, Batum and Dragic are three players that have upside, but proven, that I think the Raptors should chase. I don't think it's worth it to have a vet that has only a couple years left. If we could have a core of guys for 5 or 6 years that would be ideal.

    Jonas, Gray, Amir
    Bargs, Ed, Amir
    Batum or Draft pick, J.J.
    DeMar, Lee or draft pick
    Dragic, 2013 or additional 2012 draft pick

    This would be a nice core going forward. I think we should keep Calderon around till his contract is expires. If he excepts a deal that doesn't handicap our ability to keep this core together, then he would be great to have around. If we are going to add older vet's do it in the same way we did this year, high character guys that can fill-in in a pinch. The better we get, the better vets we can sign at the veteran minimum.
    Last edited by saints91; Thu Mar 8th, 2012 at 01:12 PM.

  9. #29
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    I hope Casey is not talking about players on their downslide of their careers. I think Ray Allen, AK47 are great players, but I think we should be looking at guys that are battle tested veterans that are in their mid to late 20's. Still veterans that have established their identities already. Courtney Lee, Batum and Dragic are three players that have upside, but proven, that I think the Raptors should chase. I don't think it's worth it to have a vet that has only a couple years left. If we could have a core of guys for 5 or 6 years that would be ideal.

    Jonas, Gray, Amir
    Bargs, Ed, Amir
    Batum or Draft pick, J.J.
    DeMar, Lee or draft pick
    Dragic, 2013 or additional 2012 draft pick

    This would be a nice core going forward. I think we should keep Calderon around till his contract is expires. If he excepts a deal that doesn't handicap our ability to keep this core together, then he would be great to have around. I we are going to add vet's do it in the same way we did this year, high character guys that can fill-in in a pinch. The better we get the better vets we can get at the veteran minimum.
    I agree, but I also believe a vet with only a couple of years left that can continue to produce where he is best is very valuable. Having Ray Allen on this team would be a blessing.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Maybe they are looking at Boris Diaw. He is tough physical, can shoot the ball. the bobcats are probably going to release him soon and he would look good off the bench.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    why the hell isn't ROY doing Microfracture surgery....He is still young and could have a very productive career
    Microfracture helps when cartilage needs repair. But it doesn't help replace ALL the cartilage you once had, which is what Roy would need. The guy has no cartilage left in his knees at all.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter AJ360's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    why the hell isn't ROY doing Microfracture surgery....He is still young and could have a very productive career
    shake my head

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post

    What players available through free agency or trade do you think Casey's comments would be applicable to?

    ***Keep in mind this is total speculation - toughness and shooting are the only criteria***
    Nash is the obvious answer. Look, if the idea is to WIN NOW then don't do it half-ass with guys like Hinrich and Chandler and Nocioni. Move the 2012 and 2014 picks, move Valanciunas, move Davis, move Calderon, and get an elite player to pair with Nash. If Derozan, JJ and Bargs are as good as you have to believe they are (obviously cause you want to win now) that team has a 2-year window with Nash to do try and win something meaningful. I'm sick of this team doing everything half-ass. They can't tank properly, they can't rebuild properly and they can't win properly. So, if this is the plan, then go for it.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Nash is the obvious answer. Look, if the idea is to WIN NOW then don't do it half-ass with guys like Hinrich and Chandler and Nocioni. Move the 2012 and 2014 picks, move Valanciunas, move Davis, move Calderon, and get an elite player to pair with Nash. If Derozan, JJ and Bargs are as good as you have to believe they are (obviously cause you want to win now) that team has a 2-year window with Nash to do try and win something meaningful. I'm sick of this team doing everything half-ass. They can't tank properly, they can't rebuild properly and they can't win properly. So, if this is the plan, then go for it.
    I'm not sure the idea is to win NOW.

    I think the idea next year is to be relevant and possibly, depending on transactions made, make the playoffs - or at the very least to make a run at the post season.

    I'd rather see a team assembled that can grow and compete for years rather than be the next Milwaukee.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Nash is the obvious answer. Look, if the idea is to WIN NOW then don't do it half-ass with guys like Hinrich and Chandler and Nocioni. Move the 2012 and 2014 picks, move Valanciunas, move Davis, move Calderon, and get an elite player to pair with Nash. If Derozan, JJ and Bargs are as good as you have to believe they are (obviously cause you want to win now) that team has a 2-year window with Nash to do try and win something meaningful. I'm sick of this team doing everything half-ass. They can't tank properly, they can't rebuild properly and they can't win properly. So, if this is the plan, then go for it.
    "Win now" doesn't necessarily mean "win the championship". There's a development curve there. And the approach needn't be one or the other, tank or win it all. You can still win and make the playoffs while improving toward the ultimate goal. In fact, unless you're in the "blow it up a la Boston/Miami and buy talent" strategic camp, I'd argue it's the ONLY way to eventually win a championship.

    Building a winning team is not an exact science, it's a scientific experiment. You put together a bunch of elements and see how they react together. You only hope they don't explode on contact, and you dream that maybe they'll form the alternative to carbon-based energy. Along the way, unless you're incredibly lucky and get it right the first time, you'll need to add/subtract ingredients and try again. Eventually, you'll either find what you're looking for, or you'll determine yourself to be a really bad scientist and will likely have to find another line of work.

    The franchise right now looks to be in better shape in terms of both in-hand talent and cap flexibility than it has in years. Of course, if mismanaged, that could turn to crap again and it would be time to start over with new ingredients, possibly including a new scientist. But at this point, the experiment looks to be moving in the right direction, and is certainly more hopeful than it has been since VC was in town.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Building a winning team is not an exact science, it's a scientific experiment. You put together a bunch of elements and see how they react together. You only hope they don't explode on contact, and you dream that maybe they'll form the alternative to carbon-based energy. Along the way, unless you're incredibly lucky and get it right the first time, you'll need to add/subtract ingredients and try again. Eventually, you'll either find what you're looking for, or you'll determine yourself to be a really bad scientist and will likely have to find another line of work.
    Lots of ways to build but we know that the one thing you absolutely need to get to Conference Finals in the NBA (and therefore have a shot at a title) is a top of the food chain guy. A Kobe, MJ, Magic, Dirk, Nash, Duncan, Wade, Lebron, Howard, Rose, Durant. That's been the one constant for 30 years with one exception. The Raps don't have that guy. So, they either need to draft him or go trade for him. That means tanking to get a top pick or selling the farm to get that guy.

    The current scenario (team centered around offensive minded PF, highly rated young centre coming in, adding vets to get better) is eerily similar to being a repeat of the 2006 plan that got them, well, right where they are now. Maybe Valanciunas is Dwight Howard good and this is all moot. I just don't see any point of building a team whose upside is a 6th seed and I fear, as I've written before, that's where this is headed.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    (With JV and 2012 pick cap hold, the Raptors really only have about $11M in cap space - not $17M as reported above.)

    Those are some serious quotes from Casey. Those quotes make me think the trade route will be the way the Raptors are looking to go this off season. Free agency (list found here) does not appear to have many players you could classify as "... experienced guys, guys who are tough, battle tested and been through the wars...." although there could be a few (guessing on my part!):

    PG: Hinrich, Nash, Felton, Miller (none would be classified as PG of the future though)
    SG: Allen, Fields, Lee
    SF: Barnes, Chandler, Nocioni
    PF: Too many as is
    C: Gray, Magloire

    Casey's comments imply to me that Aaron Gray most definitely should be back - I hope it happens. An argument could be made for Magloire as the 3rd stringer with Alabi sent packing.


    What players available through free agency or trade do you think Casey's comments would be applicable to?

    ***Keep in mind this is total speculation - toughness and shooting are the only criteria***


    Stephen Brotherston at HoopsWorld.com has an article up which hits on topics of this thread:


    On trade deadline:

    “We know where we are in our program and what we are trying to do and what is going on with the big picture plan,” said head coach Dwane Casey. “I know what our needs are, we know what our needs are, and Bryan has a great plan. We have flexibility and we are going to have to be selective as far as what we get and how we go after it and make sure we execute it. It’s a big off season for us to go along with the growth of some of the guys that we have.”

    “I don’t foresee anything,” continued Casey about the trade deadline. “That’s out of my department but I don’t foresee any of it as far as any moves – major moves or minor moves. Maybe minor, but I don’t see anything major as far as anyone in the locker room.”

    Even minor moves could come as a surprise, but there are possibilities.

    Brotherston includes the complete quote (or at least more complete) of what Casey said regarding adding toughness and shooting:

    Probably the biggest reason the Raptors do not anticipate any major moves at the trade deadline is the wish list of attributes for any future additions. The Raptors plan on being a lot better next season.

    “Experience along with the young guys we have coming in is going to be important,” said Casey. “I don’t think we can bring a lot of young guys in next year and expect to make the big steps that we want to make next year. We have to have some experienced guys, guys who are tough, battle-tested, been through the wars and I think that is going to be important and Bryan has his eyes on some guys who are free agents next year. Toughness and shooting are two of the keys.

    “I am talking about experience maybe 25, 26, 28. There are some 36, 37, 38 year olds I would take, but I would rather have it a little younger.”

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    The current scenario (team centered around offensive minded PF, highly rated young centre coming in, adding vets to get better) is eerily similar to being a repeat of the 2006 plan that got them, well, right where they are now. Maybe Valanciunas is Dwight Howard good and this is all moot. I just don't see any point of building a team whose upside is a 6th seed and I fear, as I've written before, that's where this is headed.
    I disagree that "that's where this is headed" is a foregone conclusion. There are similarities in the approach, but the players and the other variables are not the same.

    How do you propose getting that top-tier guy (assuming he's not here already, in a less-mature state)? I will agree that there are two primary ways to get such a rare bird (how many of those guys in the NBA? Maybe 10?), either draft or trade. Superstars like that don't make it to free agency.

    If you draft high, you have a *chance* to luck out on such a player, but that chance is incredibly slim and you're likely not going to know for at least 2 years. If you don't pick the right guy -- and forget whether he ends up being an All Star,; many 1st-rounders don't even end up rotation players on good teams --then what? Tank again and again, until you hit the winning lottery number?

    If you trade, you need to find a partner willing to part with one of these superstars. Also very difficult, and often a matter of luck.

    The key component of both approaches is luck. And if you can accept that, you can accept how difficult it actually is to build a championship team. Most fans in most cities, for most sports, spend their whole lives watching their favourite teams, and might get to see 1 or 2 championship runs over that time.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't think Portland is permitted to sign Roy until his original deal has run its course. I'm not positive on that but if teams were permitted to do that I could see some real funny business being done with a seriously injured, highly paid player with multiple years left on his contract i.e. you are out for this year, we amnesty you, pay you in full, sign you next year to a cheap deal, and sign a bigtime FA with the cap space savings.

    This of course neglects the fact Roy has no knees left. Personally, I don't think he comes back and, if he does, it is a short return. It is too bad because he was a player.

    didn't he voluntarily retire? doesn't his contract resume from where it left off if he comes back? like darius miles a few years ago?

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    didn't he voluntarily retire? doesn't his contract resume from where it left off if he comes back? like darius miles a few years ago?
    Darius Miles was a medical retirement.

    Portland amnestied Roy. They would have had to of waited until sometime in April 2012 to clear his contract off the books to use the salary cap space as medical retirements cannot be pursued until they have missed 1 year. Amnesty gave them immediate cap relief.

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