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Who do you realistically see as the Point Guard of the future?

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  • #46
    I can see the small-market Bucks being unwilling to pony up for Jennings, especially if they maintain their mediocrity status.

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    • #47
      I have to agree with Matt. I don't any of those players will be moving anytime soon. I could see Curry being moved if he continues to have injury problems, but it will still be a high price. Based on how hard it is to get a quality PG I don't think any of these guys will become available anytime soon. Still on their rookie contracts, which usually get extended. Most good players test the market as unrestricted FA's after their 7 or 8th years in the league (Bosh, LeBron, Williams, Howard, Wade, Nash, Amare). I would expect the same from the players listed.

      I think our best chances are through the draft or getting lucky with a free agent that was playing a back up role and just needs a change of scenery.
      Last edited by saints91; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 01:23 PM.

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      • #48
        Nilanka wrote: View Post
        I can see the small-market Bucks being unwilling to pony up for Jennings, especially if they maintain their mediocrity status.
        I agree. Of all those PGs Jennings is the one most likely to be had - but not cheap.

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        • #49
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          Here is a thought I had today: Nick Calathes. I read his name in a chat on HoopsWorld.com and I realized I had totally forgot about him (by the way, Dallas owns his draft rights).

          For those of you who don't know who he is, he played for the Florida Gators his freshman and sophomore years in '07/08 and '08/09. He used his Greece family background and, with his Greek passport, gave up his junior and senior years at Florida to go professional in Greece. More background here.

          DraftExpress.com profile

          All stats (NCAA, Europe) via Draft Express.com

          He is just turned 23 in February. He is 6'6". DraftExpress lists his best case as Jose Calderon and his worst case as Sarunas Jasikevicius - not bad company. For those Euro-phobes around here, he put up stellar stats at Florida - equal to or better than Deron Williams in my opinion (Williams had a clear advantage in assist to turnover but that is it). He has played the last 3 years at the highest level of competition outside of the NBA - and arguably the most intense basketball in the world. His stats aren't that eye catching from the last few years in Europe but, as Ricky Rubio showed, stats in Europe can be misleading - especially for a PG - due to the style of and approach to the game.

          From DraftExpress.com:





          If Deron Williams ends up in Dallas, I'd be making the call to Donnie Nelson. Actually, I'd be making the call anyways.

          Added: EuroBasket 2011 profile:
          I have seen enough of Calathes this year to know he's far from being an NBA PG. To put in perspective, he's light years from being as good as Jose or Sarunas, and he plays on the same team as the latter so it's easy to compare them...This is an interesting thread though at it is maybe the most important question about the Raptors going forward. If this team is going to move forward with JV, Bargs, maybe Derozan, JJ and/or Kleiza, we'll clearly need a new PG.
          Everyone thinks if we keep our pick it's going to be used on a wing as right now no PGs are projected high in the draft. The fact that Marshall is such a great passer and can't seem to move up is a bit strange and concerning to me. Kabongo seems a bit less developed than I hoped, maybe because of strength and needing a better shot? Haven't seen enough of either, but in this age of loving PGs, the fact that none seem to be raising their stock is weird. Lots of talk Kabongo will stay another year (not a bad idea if getting stronger and more experience launches him into the top 10 next year). So all this to say is that maybe we pick one of these guys and they end up great, but right now there seems to be enough questions about both that it seems unlikely to happen this summer....Maybe we get to pick Kabongo next year?? who knows?

          Trade options are tricky. I am intrigued by Bledsoe, and if the Clips make him available, I'd jump all over that. I don't understand why they're hanging onto him so hard.
          I don't like Jennings attitude. I think he's just a dumb kid or something, he just doesn't "get it" as they say. I do think he seems to have an ok attitude in terms of positivity and such, but yeah, seems immature and maybe should stay away from him unless he shows otherwise instead of trading for him and hoping he matures for us.

          In free agency, I just don't see any upgrades really. Maybe players with different strengths than Calderon, but no one I'd say is better, especially for leadership on a young team. Honestly the only upgrade on Calderon is to get a top flight PG. Jose has taken too much crap from Toronto fans, as he's not that far from an all-star level PG. Unless we're sure to acquire one or draft a future all-star, we should hang onto Jose.

          Basically I see that at this point, there is no PG of the future. Unless BC thinks he can make a play for an established all-star, there aren't many available prospects in trades or the draft to say we can find our successor to Calderon. Realistically I just don't want to have a mediocre PG replace Calderon. If we get Bledsoe or someone like Augustin, we should still keep Calderon, as he could mentor/push both, and if neither is truly elite, we know Jose makes part of a great PG tandem. Same goes for if we get a PG in the draft this year or next. Unless someone jumps in the draft to be a can't miss pick, it's likely we'll need Jose around as a teacher and insurance. I just hope Jose wants to stay.

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          • #50
            Just posted this in the Draft Thread, but suppose its relevant in this thread as well:

            Kendall Marshall just broke the All-Time Assist record for a single season, in the ACC.
            Very big Deal.

            Kendall Marshall now stands alone.


            The 6-foot-4 sophomore point guard set the Atlantic Coast Conference’s the single-season assist record with his pass to forward Harrison Barnes with 15:31 remaining in the first half. Marshall passes former Georgia Tech guard Craig Neal, who had held the record since the 1987-88 season.


            Marshall has compiled 534 assists in less than two seasons as the starter for North Carolina and is certainly in range of the national career record set by former Duke guard Bobby Hurley. Hurley dished out 1,076 assists in four seasons with the Blue Devils.


            If Marshall decides to stay all four years, that record could be in danger as well.

            Source

            Here's hoping he doesn't stay all 4 years at UNC!
            Let's get him and move on from this whole "PG of the Future talk." Haha

            Comment


            • #51
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              I have seen enough of Calathes this year to know he's far from being an NBA PG. To put in perspective, he's light years from being as good as Jose or Sarunas, and he plays on the same team as the latter so it's easy to compare them...This is an interesting thread though at it is maybe the most important question about the Raptors going forward. If this team is going to move forward with JV, Bargs, maybe Derozan, JJ and/or Kleiza, we'll clearly need a new PG.
              Everyone thinks if we keep our pick it's going to be used on a wing as right now no PGs are projected high in the draft. The fact that Marshall is such a great passer and can't seem to move up is a bit strange and concerning to me. Kabongo seems a bit less developed than I hoped, maybe because of strength and needing a better shot? Haven't seen enough of either, but in this age of loving PGs, the fact that none seem to be raising their stock is weird. Lots of talk Kabongo will stay another year (not a bad idea if getting stronger and more experience launches him into the top 10 next year). So all this to say is that maybe we pick one of these guys and they end up great, but right now there seems to be enough questions about both that it seems unlikely to happen this summer....Maybe we get to pick Kabongo next year?? who knows?

              Trade options are tricky. I am intrigued by Bledsoe, and if the Clips make him available, I'd jump all over that. I don't understand why they're hanging onto him so hard.
              I don't like Jennings attitude. I think he's just a dumb kid or something, he just doesn't "get it" as they say. I do think he seems to have an ok attitude in terms of positivity and such, but yeah, seems immature and maybe should stay away from him unless he shows otherwise instead of trading for him and hoping he matures for us.

              In free agency, I just don't see any upgrades really. Maybe players with different strengths than Calderon, but no one I'd say is better, especially for leadership on a young team. Honestly the only upgrade on Calderon is to get a top flight PG. Jose has taken too much crap from Toronto fans, as he's not that far from an all-star level PG. Unless we're sure to acquire one or draft a future all-star, we should hang onto Jose.

              Basically I see that at this point, there is no PG of the future. Unless BC thinks he can make a play for an established all-star, there aren't many available prospects in trades or the draft to say we can find our successor to Calderon. Realistically I just don't want to have a mediocre PG replace Calderon. If we get Bledsoe or someone like Augustin, we should still keep Calderon, as he could mentor/push both, and if neither is truly elite, we know Jose makes part of a great PG tandem. Same goes for if we get a PG in the draft this year or next. Unless someone jumps in the draft to be a can't miss pick, it's likely we'll need Jose around as a teacher and insurance. I just hope Jose wants to stay.
              Are you in Europe?

              If not, where do you watch the games?


              Looking at Jasikevicius' and Calathes' statistics (which is hardly giving a full and accurate description) I would question Nick being light years from Sarunas.

              With regards to Calderon, I could see that. But given the fact Nick is just turned 23 with 2 years of NCAA experience and 3 solid years in the Euroleague, one would have to think his ceiling is still not within reach.

              Jasikevicius' Euroleague profile

              Calathes Euroleague profile

              Also looking back at Jose's Euroleague stats when he was in his early-mid 20's doesn't really make Calderon look light years ahead of Calathes at the same stage in their developments.


              I really don't know much about Calathes at this time but I do know he had 16 points, 11 assists, and 5 rebounds last year in the championship game of the Greek A1 League after also logging 22.6 minutes per game to help the team win the EuroLeague title as well.

              As for this year:

              Meanwhile in Greece, Panathinaikos Athens' point guard Nick Calathes (6-6", 195, '89) has been going to work. Panathinaikos is second in Greek A1 Ethniki League right after Olympiakos Piraeus. Calathes has been averaging 21,3 minutes a game in a stacked Panathinaikos team to go with 7,7 points, 2,8 assists, 2,5 rebounds and 1,5 steals.

              In Euroleague competition, Panathinaikos has steamrolled their way into Top 16 and are splitting the top position of Group G with Russian team Unics Kazan. Calathes has been a key factor in Euroleague as well, averaging 8,4 points, 2,9 assists, 2,2 rebounds and 1,4 steals in 22,6 minutes a game.
              The numbers he is putting up this year are very comparable with those of Ricky Rubio last year in EuroLeague competition. His assist numbers are a little lower but his %'s and turnovers are better. Perimeter play in the EuroLeague and the NBA are night and day with Euro being much more physical.

              Anyways - if you can provide a link to EuroLeague games, I'd really appreciate it.
              Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 04:37 PM.

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              • #52
                LBF wrote: View Post
                when are you ever convinced that someone whos never played a game in the nba is going to be a future all star?
                As much as i hate the guy, only Lebron James was the clear cut all star whos been ever been drafted, IMO.

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                • #53
                  tbihis wrote: View Post
                  As much as i hate the guy, only Lebron James was the clear cut all star whos been ever been drafted, IMO.
                  I don't recall Shaq or Duncan really "surprising" anyone during their rookie years either. They were pretty much penciled in as all-stars from the start.

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                  • #54
                    Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    I don't recall Shaq or Duncan really "surprising" anyone during their rookie years either. They were pretty much penciled in as all-stars from the start.
                    Oh thats right.
                    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 05:41 PM.

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                    • #55
                      tbihis wrote: View Post
                      As much as i hate the guy, only Lebron James was the clear cut all star whos been ever been drafted, IMO.
                      I'm obviously older than you so I'll help you add to that list Bird, Magic, Kareem, Oscar, Wilt, and Bill Russell.
                      Last edited by stretch; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 06:45 PM.

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                      • #56
                        Chris Webber was also a sure thing.

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                        • #57
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          Are you in Europe?

                          If not, where do you watch the games?


                          Looking at Jasikevicius' and Calathes' statistics (which is hardly giving a full and accurate description) I would question Nick being light years from Sarunas.

                          With regards to Calderon, I could see that. But given the fact Nick is just turned 23 with 2 years of NCAA experience and 3 solid years in the Euroleague, one would have to think his ceiling is still not within reach.

                          Jasikevicius' Euroleague profile

                          Calathes Euroleague profile

                          Also looking back at Jose's Euroleague stats when he was in his early-mid 20's doesn't really make Calderon look light years ahead of Calathes at the same stage in their developments.


                          I really don't know much about Calathes at this time but I do know he had 16 points, 11 assists, and 5 rebounds last year in the championship game of the Greek A1 League after also logging 22.6 minutes per game to help the team win the EuroLeague title as well.

                          As for this year:



                          The numbers he is putting up this year are very comparable with those of Ricky Rubio last year in EuroLeague competition. His assist numbers are a little lower but his %'s and turnovers are better. Perimeter play in the EuroLeague and the NBA are night and day with Euro being much more physical.

                          Anyways - if you can provide a link to EuroLeague games, I'd really appreciate it.
                          I am in Europe, but I don't know the site I watch games on. I watch them with my friend(I've seen 6 or 7 games, all Euroleague except one Greek league) who's a diehard Panathinaikos fan. Calathes has been good for them, but hardly a crucial piece. He's more like a good glue guy who could maybe be a good bench PG in the NBA. He doesn't have the kind of burst you need, and his shot is good but hardly that of a sniper. Diamantidis tends to do most of the major ball handling and playmaking in clutch situations, and they have plenty of other guys who are better weapons, counting the fact that they also have some inside weapons. Calathes, like I said, just does his job as a glue guy, trying to make smart plays out there, knock down open shots and play good D. Even if he one day turns into a solid starter, it's a bit too far off I think to consider for us. His absolute best case may be Calderon with worse passing instincts, and that might be 3 or 4 years from now at the earliest. And really don't get too excited about Calathes' D, as the team is a great defensive team and I've seen him get pulled a few times this year for mistakes (though he's not making bad mistakes, just a fact of life being on a good team). Bottom line, he has nothing about his game that stands out so I can't picture him being a solution and have a hard time seeing him as more than a good NBA backup in the best case. To put it in perspective, Jasikevicius has a swagger and big shot ability that is hard to find, even if he lacks astonishing skills in other areas. Calderon has always been a great passer and good decision-maker. Rubio has obvious flair and talent for playmaking. Calathes has none of those. He has good size, but not great speed. He shoots well, but hasn't shown enough consistency to call it a true threat, especially from deep. I wish I could think of an NBA comparison, but one escapes me right now. He could 'learn' the game as well as Jose or Sarunas, and he is a smart player, but I'm not sure he is talented enough or cocky enough (like Sarunas) to be a big impact player.

                          Anyway, I'll see if I can remember about that link. Maybe send me a message so I don't forget. I'll ask my buddy next time I see him, in fact I'm catching tomorrow's Panathinaikos - Olympiacos game with him, so I'll see if I remember.

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                          • #58
                            white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                            I am in Europe, but I don't know the site I watch games on. I watch them with my friend(I've seen 6 or 7 games, all Euroleague except one Greek league) who's a diehard Panathinaikos fan. Calathes has been good for them, but hardly a crucial piece. He's more like a good glue guy who could maybe be a good bench PG in the NBA. He doesn't have the kind of burst you need, and his shot is good but hardly that of a sniper. Diamantidis tends to do most of the major ball handling and playmaking in clutch situations, and they have plenty of other guys who are better weapons, counting the fact that they also have some inside weapons. Calathes, like I said, just does his job as a glue guy, trying to make smart plays out there, knock down open shots and play good D. Even if he one day turns into a solid starter, it's a bit too far off I think to consider for us. His absolute best case may be Calderon with worse passing instincts, and that might be 3 or 4 years from now at the earliest. And really don't get too excited about Calathes' D, as the team is a great defensive team and I've seen him get pulled a few times this year for mistakes (though he's not making bad mistakes, just a fact of life being on a good team). Bottom line, he has nothing about his game that stands out so I can't picture him being a solution and have a hard time seeing him as more than a good NBA backup in the best case. To put it in perspective, Jasikevicius has a swagger and big shot ability that is hard to find, even if he lacks astonishing skills in other areas. Calderon has always been a great passer and good decision-maker. Rubio has obvious flair and talent for playmaking. Calathes has none of those. He has good size, but not great speed. He shoots well, but hasn't shown enough consistency to call it a true threat, especially from deep. I wish I could think of an NBA comparison, but one escapes me right now. He could 'learn' the game as well as Jose or Sarunas, and he is a smart player, but I'm not sure he is talented enough or cocky enough (like Sarunas) to be a big impact player.

                            Anyway, I'll see if I can remember about that link. Maybe send me a message so I don't forget. I'll ask my buddy next time I see him, in fact I'm catching tomorrow's Panathinaikos - Olympiacos game with him, so I'll see if I remember.
                            Thanks for the insights.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I'd also like to add that stats can be even more deceptive in European leagues. Games are shorter, coaches might screw around with rotations a lot depending on the game and which league it's in. There is less opportunity for one guy to score 30 points a night but many teams have lots of guys who might be threats in different ways. I'm not saying they don't tell you anything, but as an NBA fan who's been watching more European ball this year (also caught a couple of Jonas' games), I find the stats are even less helpful than in the NBA in trying to determine a player's impact.

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                              • #60
                                I joined this forum last night to lobby for Kendall Marshall, and wow i've found the place to do it. I know there are questions about his foot speed and shooting but you just don't get floor generals like him everyday. The man gets the ball in the perfect spot for his shooters everytime and has a sky high B-Ball IQ. I don't know but when I watch him play I just feel his game, and you can't argue his Tar-Heel pedigree. He is projected mid first round i believe..get utah on da phone lol!! My dream would be JV,Barnes and Kendall for the next 15 years. people are sleeping on this guy!

                                any thoughts on Kendall? On another note after reading Raptors Rebublic everyday I'm so happy I manned up and joined this awesome community. from Newfoundland..GO RAPS!!!

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