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Thread: Gauging the 2012 Draft pick - and how the Raptors move forward

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Default Gauging the 2012 Draft pick - and how the Raptors move forward

    How do we gauge the 2012 draft pick as being a successful draft pick? at least 20pts a game and 10 asts (if a guard/forward) or 10 rebs (if a PF/C)

    Should we expect the pick to be productive right out the gate, or give him at least a season to adjust?

    How many minutes should we expect him to play?

    If he turns out to be a dud, how do the Raptors move forward?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Maybe we can save this thread for when we know who the specific player is. The criteria we use to measure success will largely depend on what position he plays.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Maybe we can save this thread for when we know who the specific player is. The criteria we use to measure success will largely depend on what position he plays.
    True. But i think right now we should already have a general idea as to what the Raptors will be expecting from this draft pick. I dont want to tag him as a "saviour" but the reality is, IMO, there will be a big boulder that will be placed on this pick's shoulders come next season. At least from my perspective, this draft pick will definitely be groomed as a starter for this team. Even if he does not start come the new season, eventually, he will. At least thats what my expectations are of this pick.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Only 3 guys really strike me as potential all stars in this draft, Davis, MKG and Beal. All three are worth moving up in the draft for. After that there's a handful of guys that COULD be all stars down the road but they'd have to maximize on their potential. Otherwise, I'd say they'll be very solid starters for years to come. The thing with this draft is there's lots of guys with oodles of potential, even in the second round, but who knows? I wouldn't be shocked if 5 years from now theres a couple all-star level players who were selected in the second round.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Only 3 guys really strike me as potential all stars in this draft, Davis, MKG and Beal. All three are worth moving up in the draft for. After that there's a handful of guys that COULD be all stars down the road but they'd have to maximize on their potential. Otherwise, I'd say they'll be very solid starters for years to come. The thing with this draft is there's lots of guys with oodles of potential, even in the second round, but who knows? I wouldn't be shocked if 5 years from now theres a couple all-star level players who were selected in the second round.
    Do you think there's a sense of urgency for the Raptors with this pick? Should they be thinking that with this pick, the team should improve drastically and at least be a playoff team?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I think there's a sense of urgency since this will likely be our highest pick for years (if we expect to be battling for a playoff spot next season and beyond).

    Going into Colangelo's last season, he needs to show ownership that he knows what he's doing. I would guess he's not looking for a project, and more of a player who can contribute next season.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Only 3 guys really strike me as potential all stars in this draft, Davis, MKG and Beal. All three are worth moving up in the draft for. After that there's a handful of guys that COULD be all stars down the road but they'd have to maximize on their potential. Otherwise, I'd say they'll be very solid starters for years to come. The thing with this draft is there's lots of guys with oodles of potential, even in the second round, but who knows? I wouldn't be shocked if 5 years from now theres a couple all-star level players who were selected in the second round.
    I haven't seen Beal play yet. I need to pencil in some Gator games...
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Do you think there's a sense of urgency for the Raptors with this pick? Should they be thinking that with this pick, the team should improve drastically and at least be a playoff team?
    I think there certainly should be

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Frankly, if I'm BC and if I end up with a pick in the 6-12 range I do whatever it takes short of trading JV to move into the top 5 to get one of the 3 guys.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    The thing with Beal is his game is more tailored for the NBA, too. He's good at what he does in college but he's going to be awesome in the NBA. I've heard rumblings of teams wanting to possibly convert him to PG since his ball handling and court vision are so good.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Only 3 guys really strike me as potential all stars in this draft, Davis, MKG and Beal. All three are worth moving up in the draft for. After that there's a handful of guys that COULD be all stars down the road but they'd have to maximize on their potential. Otherwise, I'd say they'll be very solid starters for years to come. The thing with this draft is there's lots of guys with oodles of potential, even in the second round, but who knows? I wouldn't be shocked if 5 years from now theres a couple all-star level players who were selected in the second round.
    I'd add Robinson to that list.. I see all-star in his cards.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    The thing with Beal is his game is more tailored for the NBA, too. He's good at what he does in college but he's going to be awesome in the NBA. I've heard rumblings of teams wanting to possibly convert him to PG since his ball handling and court vision are so good.
    Maybe Beal's our PG of the future

    Based on a few YouTube videos, his offensive arsenal already seems more diverse than DeRozan's. So if he's drafted, more decisions are required. There's no point in having Beal and DeRozan as SGs.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    The thing with Beal is his game is more tailored for the NBA, too. He's good at what he does in college but he's going to be awesome in the NBA. I've heard rumblings of teams wanting to possibly convert him to PG since his ball handling and court vision are so good.
    With the three guard starting line up of Boynton and Walker in addition to Beal, Beal hardly had a chance to show what he could do. Boynton and Walker look for themselves first and everyone else much later in the thought process.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Maybe Beal's our PG of the future

    Based on a few YouTube videos, his offensive arsenal already seems more diverse than DeRozan's. So if he's drafted, more decisions are required. There's no point in having Beal and DeRozan as SGs.

    DeMar could easily play a 6th man role, playing both the 2 and three. He still could get starters minutes that way.


    Jonas, Gray, Amir
    Andrea, Ed, Amir,J.J., Kleiza
    Batum, DeMar, J.J., Kleiza
    Beal, DeMar,Forbes
    Calderon,??????,????

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    I like, Beal, but I don't see star potential, but he could definitely be a really good(REALLY REALLY GOOD) 2nd option. Sharing the backcourt is hard, but sharing it with two more scoring undersized PG/SG is harder. From the Florida games I've seen, Beal is looking good, but not great, although he has a really smooth game and can definitely play part-time PG for the Raptors. I see Miller, AD, MKG, Barnes, Ross, Drummond, Robinson, and Rivers as having star potential. If they reach it, I don't know, but their game and talent are undeniable.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Do you think there's a sense of urgency for the Raptors with this pick? Should they be thinking that with this pick, the team should improve drastically and at least be a playoff team?
    I believe that the Raps are expecting to get at least a solid rotation player who is good at both ends of the court and who can contribute offensively more consistently than Ed Davis has done so far.

    I think Davis, MKG, Barnes and Beal are the top picks.

    However, it sounds like MKG is serious about staying in school, so he might not be an option.

    Davis plays at the position/role that the Raps are strongest at: a defensive minded PF. The Raps have Valanciunas coming in to play C and he is primarily defensive-minded, with the expectation of becoming a defensive anchor. If Bargnani's games played this season are legit, then he is an all-star PF who creates lots of offensive mismatches. If the Raps win the lottery and I'm BC, I would seriously look at trading the #1 overall pick for another top-5/10 draft pick (to get Barnes, MKG or Beal) along with another asset (ie: later 1st round pick, future 1st round pick, good young prospect or proven rotation player).

    I think Barnes will be better than his play is showing so far this season, largely because he hasn't had to press too hard to be too much on a good NC squad. He is a good shooter and has the tools to be a good defender, plus he seems to have a high BBIQ.

    I also like Beal and think his slick outside shooting, great handles and great court vision (from the couple games I've seen) could translate into a very solid NBA guard. As some have mentioned, I wonder how he would be at PG, since he seems to be very calm under pressure and has the handles and vision that the position requires. I would put him 3rd on my list after MKG/Barnes, but the NCAA tourney could change that.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Mar 9th, 2012 at 03:53 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    At first glance, Beal's game kind of reminds me of Eric Gordon's.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Maybe Beal's our PG of the future

    Based on a few YouTube videos, his offensive arsenal already seems more diverse than DeRozan's. So if he's drafted, more decisions are required. There's no point in having Beal and DeRozan as SGs.
    No i'd keep him at SG. But consider this, with his skills you could start a big defensive PG beside him (George Hill?) and run the offense through him, especially at the end of games. In regards to Derozen, i'd start him at SF. He's proven to be more effective there, especially when he works his postup game. JJ would come off the bench, giving the second unit a solid shot of energy and defense. On games where DeMar lollygags, JJ gets his minutes.

    A lineup of:
    Hill/FA or Drafted
    Beal/Forbesy
    Demar/JJ/Kleiza
    Bargs/Ed/Amir
    Big Val/Gray

    I like that lineup a lot. You've got shooters at every position and enough defense to cover up Demar who's actually been playing decent D lately. Bench is strong, in fact you could still trade Amir or Ed and be effective.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    No i'd keep him at SG. But consider this, with his skills you could start a big defensive PG beside him (George Hill?) and run the offense through him, especially at the end of games. In regards to Derozen, i'd start him at SF. He's proven to be more effective there, especially when he works his postup game. JJ would come off the bench, giving the second unit a solid shot of energy and defense. On games where DeMar lollygags, JJ gets his minutes.

    A lineup of:
    Hill/FA or Drafted
    Beal/Forbesy
    Demar/JJ/Kleiza
    Bargs/Ed/Amir
    Big Val/Gray

    I like that lineup a lot. You've got shooters at every position and enough defense to cover up Demar who's actually been playing decent D lately. Bench is strong, in fact you could still trade Amir or Ed and be effective.
    Not to be a dick but George Hill is only 6'2" and 180lbs according to his ESPN profile.

    I get what you are saying though. A guard like Jason Kidd (defensively speaking) or Kirk Hinrich are pretty big. Too bad they are both on the tail ends of their careers.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Really he's only 6'2? He looks a lot bigger. He certainly defends bigger than his size. Hinrich is another guy i'd roll with, though. Especially if you drafted a PG, he could mentor him.
    @jerboat

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