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  • saints91 wrote: View Post
    They missed 20 free throws in a tight game. They lost the game on the line. I'm not saying the Raptors didn't amazing plays to be in it at the end and eventually win the game. Memphis had every chance to win this game win at the line and they didn't. Hope the truth doesn't make you puke.
    Actually it doesnt. Coz the truth is, eventhough the Raptors made amazing plays according to you, they did make bonehead plays as well. But they still won the game. Even if Memphis missed all their FTs, it wouldnt have mattered if the Raptors just laid down on the floor and didnt play defense. Memphis was going to lose regardless, coz the raptors fought harder down the stretch.

    But i do apologize, i acted in haste to your comment. I understand what you were saying, that the Griz could have had a better chance to win if they made their FTs. My apologies.

    Comment


    • saints91 wrote: View Post
      I think Bayless will mostly be more of a combo guard. He is a better SG than he is a PG. If I were to put Calderon and Bayless on at the same time I would prefer Calderon to play the point. If I had a choice of starting Calderon or Bayless, I would start Calderon. That's my opinion. Calderon is by far the better playmaker, floor general and PG.

      I don't think I should be comparing the two, but they are both playing the same position on the same team. I have a preference in PG play, and apparently other people have their preferences. Agree to disagree.

      I don't think Bayless will ever be the pass first, make other players around you better qualities that I like. He has a style and it works him. I'll say this when Bayless makes that first pass early in the shot clock and doesn't hold on to it he plays 100% better. Unfortunately he abandons that after the first quarter.
      No he's not. Name me one game where he has put up numbers better than he did as a PG the last 4 games. Bayless is a scoring PG he is too small to play SG. He is a lethal scorer and can take players off the dribble with ease with his lightening quick speed. He is much more effective as a PG than an SG, tonight's loss was not his fault. DeMar was playing garbage D on Henderson.

      Comment


      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
        I think it speaks to objectivity.

        No doubt the Raptors won the game - and deservedly so. However, the Grizzlies missed many more foul shots than they normally do and it was the difference in the game.

        Personally, I think it was the basketball gods levelling playing field due to the sh!t officiating and allowing the team that deserved the win to get it.
        Yes, i agree. I did apologize to saints. I do understand what he was saying.

        Comment


        • He is improving as a passer and he is very clutch.

          Comment


          • Didn't watch the game but Augustine had 23 on pretty good shooting. Seems like the backcourts were a wash tonight.
            @Chr1st1anL

            Comment


            • I've finally figured out my issue with Bayless as a point guard. I love his drive, and hustle - there is no doubt he lays it on the line every time out. However, I'm not a fan of his demeanour or on-court personality but that is not the issue. There is no doubt he is very athletic and talented from a skill perspective which is great. However, I'm not a fan of his decision making. His confidence in himself is inspiring.


              Despite his great stat line versus Charlotte and over the previous 4 games, I found myself not impressed with his play as a point guard. The stats are incredible but here is my issue:

              I would like my starting PG to look for teammates before he looks for himself in the first 12-14 seconds of the shot clock - obviously an opportunity within the flow of the game (clear lane, open shot) needs to be taken, I'm not talking about that. I have no problem with a scoring PG within the parameters of team play. A scoring PG who takes liberties with their scoring opportunities because the ball is in their hands earliest and most often is another story.

              Too many times, in my opinion, Bayless takes a quick pull up or drives the lane for a contested layup very early in the shot clock or quickly after getting past half. Also too often, in my opinion, he holds the ball dribbling too long missing the split second opportunity to deliver the ball to a teammate when he is open - maybe if basketball treated assists like hockey (last 2 passes before a goal count as assists) he'd be more willing to give the ball up. Finally, in my opinion, I do not like the mentality that he will do it on his own when things break down for the team. There is a very fine line in the good/bad divide with this trait, his confidence is incredible but his execution leaves much to be desired for me - this comes back to the idea of a starting PG looking for teammates in the first half of the shot clock and creating for himself in the second half. When the other team is pulling away, you don't want a quick shot (one dribble pull up, example) early in the clock - it is great when it goes in but shows a poor decision when one misses. When your own team is pulling away or going on a run, you don't want a quick shot (drive versus 3 players for example) early in the clock - if you make the bucket or get fouled it is great but if you miss it shows a poor decision. These are very fine lines I realize, however, making a shot doesn't make it a good shot.

              The last 5 games, JB has played great statistically. Unfortunately I don't think the statistics tell the whole story as a starting PG. I've seen all the games except the first half versus Charlotte and the previous paragraph are the things that stick out to me.

              Something to consider for those who think he could be the starting PG for the Raptors moving forward beyond this season which also speaks to those who point to his statistics as success:

              Statistics for the last 5 games:

              37.6 minutes
              21.8 points
              7.6-14.0 fg-fga
              .543 fg%
              2.4-4.2 3pt-3pta
              .571 3pt%
              4.2-5.0 ft-fta
              .840 ft%
              3.6 rebounds
              7.6 assists
              1.8 steals
              2.6 turnovers

              Great numbers, no doubt. I highlighted the shooting percentages because in the last 5 games he has started, despite shooting just over 54%, he is still shooting just 43% as a starter in 10 games. Off the bench he shoots 39.1%. On the year he is shooting 41.2%. in 225 games played in the NBA he is a career 41% shooter.

              At some point, he'll revert back to the mean - the law of averages almost guarantees it. So ask yourself 2 questions and attempt to answer honestly and objectively:

              1) do you think he is capable of continuing this shooting pace indefinitely because he now starts? (54.3%)
              2) do you think you would feel the same about his prospects as the starting PG of the team had he shot his career and season average of 41% over the last 5 games?


              Something else to consider, statistics by result:

              In wins:
              11 games, 24.8 minutes, 9.7 points, 36.7% fg, 38.7% 3pt, 82.9% ft, 4.3 assists, 2.6 rebs, .6 stl, 2.0 turnover

              In losses:
              16 games, 22.9 minutes, 12.8 points, 43.8% fg, 40.3% 3pt, 88.6% ft, 3.6 assists, 1.9 rebs. .6 stl, 1.6 turnover

              Personally, it makes me a little bit nervous when I see a player perform better individually in losses than in wins.




              I hope my message is clear and this makes sense. I really don't hate Jerryd Bayless. I just don't like his game as a starting PG and I don't think his performance over the last 5 games is sustainable.
              Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Mar 17, 2012, 11:17 PM.

              Comment


              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                ... I really don't hate Jerryd Bayless. I just don't like his game as a starting PG and I don't think his performance over the last 5 games is sustainable.

                I am in the same camp as you. I especially hate it when he decides to take the team on his shoulders and carry them to a win.

                Comment


                • I don't except him to keep up the shooting but, I don't see it falling down to 41. I see him finding a good medium like %45 FG %40 3FG.

                  I don't want to hate on Calddron or that type of PG but what Calderon's all-time record as a starter? We've tried the pass-first PG and we haven't been successful with that. So why not try something different? His 23, he has like 4 years B4 his in his prime. He can learn how to a better lead guard not a pass first but, lead guard.
                  @Chr1st1anL

                  Comment


                  • Matt, I think you, some other posters and I are all expecting a different style of point guard and we observing the same things from game to game. In the first quarter and most halves as a starter Bayless is playing drastically different than how he plays in the second. The first halves are more composed, the ball is out of his hands early in the shot clock and the ball is moving. Everyone is involved. The Raptors have been very good in the first halves of the last 5 games. Bayless has been great!

                    In the second half the tempo changes. Bayless holds on to the ball later in the shot clock (13-7) and then is either forced to make a pass to a player with a less favourable shot or he tries to take it himself. The other times he is taking quick shots. The offence has been stagnant in the 2nd half of the last five games. The lack of ball movement leaves players cold. It may not show on Bayless' stat sheet, but there is a huge difference between the two halves.
                    Last edited by saints91; Sat Mar 17, 2012, 11:41 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Puffer wrote: View Post
                      I am in the same camp as you. I especially hate it when he decides to take the team on his shoulders and carry them to a win.
                      Sorry, im not being sarcastic or confrontational, but im unsure as to what you're insinuating here.

                      To me, a win is a win. No matter how ugly or pretty. It's a win, it doesnt have to come wrapped in a bow. If Bayless scores the last 20 points that leads to a win, Im fine with it. If Amir scores the last 20 pts that leads to a win, im fine with it. I think us fans always wants the "right side of things" to happen. Team play, ball movement, players helping each other out, is fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, IMO, most, if not all NBA players really dont care who takes the last shot as long as their team wins.

                      I actually am glad Bayless is stepping up and trying to close games, coz nobody else on the roster is. Demar has had his hands on the ball in late game situations and he seems to pass up on crucial moments. Everyone in the stadium knows that Bargnani is going to get the ball in late game situations, so when he gets double teamed, somebody else has to step up. And i really dont mind it being Bayless.

                      Comment


                      • I agree, and ive seen Bayless do this numerous times in games. I sometimes think that he takes those long twos to kinda lull the defender. He takes a long two, next possession he blows by his defender, thinking he's taking that long two again. But yeah, hanging on to the ball till the end of the shotclock irates me as well.

                        And this is precisely why im agreeing with the fact that Bayless can be the future starting PG, and not the current starting PG. Ive said before, i really want to see him go through a full training camp and a season of full practices with the roster, because IMO, his deficiencies can be fixed through coaching and chemistry with the players. All Casey has to say is, dont shoot early or dont dribble too long. I think its innate for him shoot, but not when to shoot. He needs that training camp and practices to anticipate where his teammates are going to spot up, where theyre going to cut, when they will anticipate his passes and when he will give those passes. I do agree that he doesnt have the instinct that Calderon does but, with chemistry, he'll know his teammates enough to trust them with his passes.

                        What he has that you cant teach tho is his quick first step and fearlessness. And his desire to finish games.

                        Comment


                        • you cant blame him. He does move the ball but half of our guys don't know wtf to do with it. He has to score and he has had some sweet dump offs where he drives and scores and the next time he does the same thing and he dumps it off while the defense is broken down. Tonight's loss was not his fault

                          Comment


                          • some of the things bayless can do are things calderon can never do in a million years. Bayless has got elite speed and can finish at will, he got a sweet pull up jumper. If little things like shooting early in the clock is going to change your mind on bayless starting then thats plain stupid. He only does this when we are in a drought, he knows when and when not to shoot but sometimes i'll admit he does get carried away. A little coaching and camp will fix that easy. I say he is a much better starter for us next season and in the future, him combined with calderon off the bench will be a great change of pace. That duo will Fuck up teams in the playoffs cause it will be such a drastic change in pace that it will throw teams off

                            Comment


                            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              I've finally figured out my issue with Bayless as a point guard. I love his drive, and hustle - there is no doubt he lays it on the line every time out. However, I'm not a fan of his demeanour or on-court personality but that is not the issue. There is no doubt he is very athletic and talented from a skill perspective which is great. However, I'm not a fan of his decision making. His confidence in himself is inspiring.


                              Despite his great stat line versus Charlotte and over the previous 4 games, I found myself not impressed with his play as a point guard. The stats are incredible but here is my issue:

                              I would like my starting PG to look for teammates before he looks for himself in the first 12-14 seconds of the shot clock - obviously an opportunity within the flow of the game (clear lane, open shot) needs to be taken, I'm not talking about that. I have no problem with a scoring PG within the parameters of team play. A scoring PG who takes liberties with their scoring opportunities because the ball is in their hands earliest and most often is another story.

                              Too many times, in my opinion, Bayless takes a quick pull up or drives the lane for a contested layup very early in the shot clock or quickly after getting past half. Also too often, in my opinion, he holds the ball dribbling too long missing the split second opportunity to deliver the ball to a teammate when he is open - maybe if basketball treated assists like hockey (last 2 passes before a goal count as assists) he'd be more willing to give the ball up. Finally, in my opinion, I do not like the mentality that he will do it on his own when things break down for the team. There is a very fine line in the good/bad divide with this trait, his confidence is incredible but his execution leaves much to be desired for me - this comes back to the idea of a starting PG looking for teammates in the first half of the shot clock and creating for himself in the second half. When the other team is pulling away, you don't want a quick shot (one dribble pull up, example) early in the clock - it is great when it goes in but shows a poor decision when one misses. When your own team is pulling away or going on a run, you don't want a quick shot (drive versus 3 players for example) early in the clock - if you make the bucket or get fouled it is great but if you miss it shows a poor decision. These are very fine lines I realize, however, making a shot doesn't make it a good shot.

                              The last 5 games, JB has played great statistically. Unfortunately I don't think the statistics tell the whole story as a starting PG. I've seen all the games except the first half versus Charlotte and the previous paragraph are the things that stick out to me.

                              Something to consider for those who think he could be the starting PG for the Raptors moving forward beyond this season which also speaks to those who point to his statistics as success:

                              Statistics for the last 5 games:

                              37.6 minutes
                              21.8 points
                              7.6-14.0 fg-fga
                              .543 fg%
                              2.4-4.2 3pt-3pta
                              .571 3pt%
                              4.2-5.0 ft-fta
                              .840 ft%
                              3.6 rebounds
                              7.6 assists
                              1.8 steals
                              2.6 turnovers

                              Great numbers, no doubt. I highlighted the shooting percentages because in the last 5 games he has started, despite shooting just over 54%, he is still shooting just 43% as a starter in 10 games. Off the bench he shoots 39.1%. On the year he is shooting 41.2%. in 225 games played in the NBA he is a career 41% shooter.

                              At some point, he'll revert back to the mean - the law of averages almost guarantees it. So ask yourself 2 questions and attempt to answer honestly and objectively:

                              1) do you think he is capable of continuing this shooting pace indefinitely because he now starts? (54.3%)
                              2) do you think you would feel the same about his prospects as the starting PG of the team had he shot his career and season average of 41% over the last 5 games?


                              Something else to consider, statistics by result:

                              In wins:
                              11 games, 24.8 minutes, 9.7 points, 36.7% fg, 38.7% 3pt, 82.9% ft, 4.3 assists, 2.6 rebs, .6 stl, 2.0 turnover

                              In losses:
                              16 games, 22.9 minutes, 12.8 points, 43.8% fg, 40.3% 3pt, 88.6% ft, 3.6 assists, 1.9 rebs. .6 stl, 1.6 turnover

                              Personally, it makes me a little bit nervous when I see a player perform better individually in losses than in wins.




                              I hope my message is clear and this makes sense. I really don't hate Jerryd Bayless. I just don't like his game as a starting PG and I don't think his performance over the last 5 games is sustainable.
                              +1. Exactly what I believe. It's not like we don't want him to succeed, but his reliability as a future starting point guard makes us skeptical.
                              Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                              Comment


                              • I can't believe some of you would already forget Calderon after 5 good games of Bayless. For sure Bayless is a good player but he's not giving us any stability, like Calderon is able to do. But my mind already changed a bit on Bayless. Before those games, I said I wouldnt want him back next year. As for now, I say keem em both, then see. Because if we don't keep him, the only other player in free agency that could give us a bit of the same kind of play than him is Mayo and I think we should rather go with Bayless. In a team like the Raptors, the more you have talent, the best it is. So, Calderon, DeRozan, Barnes, Bargnani, Valanciunas, Bayless, Forbes, J.Johnson, A.Johnson, Davis and Gray should all be in the team for at least the beginning of next year, IMO, as for now. Sorry I know this aint the good topic

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