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  • #31
    raptors2012 wrote: View Post
    I agree: Bayless has the potential to be a starting PG...ON A BOTTOM FEEDING TEAM!

    Hey, even mighty mouse was a superstar in the league with the Raptors~
    last time i checked we were bottom feeding at the moment.

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    • #32
      send his ass to the D-league.
      in masai we trust

      water covers 98% of the earth, Mitchell Robinson covers the other 2%

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      • #33
        I can't speak for the rest of the haters but I'm still here.


        I don't think he is starting PG material.... sorry. If he can string together 15 straight performances like this maybe I'll start to re-think my position.


        The thing I would want to point out is his play in this game was better than his statistics. He actually played the part of the PG which is what many of his detractors, myself included, have had issue with. Bayless usually looks for himself and only finds others when he is stuck (generalization but overall I think it is a fair statement) but in this case it was not the case. He drove when he had opportunity, took the shot when wide open or low shot clock, and found himself and others in the flow of the offense - basically he didn't force much.

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        • #34
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          I can't speak for the rest of the haters but I'm still here.


          I don't think he is starting PG material.... sorry. If he can string together 15 straight performances like this maybe I'll start to re-think my position.


          The thing I would want to point out is his play in this game was better than his statistics. He actually played the part of the PG which is what many of his detractors, myself included, have had issue with. Bayless usually looks for himself and only finds others when he is stuck (generalization but overall I think it is a fair statement) but in this case it was not the case. He drove when he had opportunity, took the shot when wide open or low shot clock, and found himself and others in the flow of the offense - basically he didn't force much.
          not trying to be argumentative, but i think you'd be hard-pressed to find any PG (outside of the uber-elite) that can/have put up 15 straight games of similar #s. i certainly understand what you're getting at (the need for consistency), but we really aren't holding any other players to that same level of expectation.

          that being said, while he's been impressive in his time as a starter (both last year & this), i'm not sure that that translates into being a bona fide starter in this L. CAN he be a starter? absolutely, he's definitely got the proper mental makeup for it...unfortunetly, i think he lacks the mental ability to be a PG.

          someone else mentioned he could start, but on a bottom-feeding team. i don't think that's entirely true, but i have a hard time envisioning him as the starting PG on a contending team either. it's a catch-22...he plays better as a starter, but what he produces as a starter would be really, really good out of a back-up on a good team...but when he's in a back-up role, his production falls off a cliff.
          TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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          • #35
            Has it ever been suggested?

            That Bayless be our SG of the future?
            Yes he is undersized, but what does he not bring to the 2 that DeMar does?

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            • #36
              yertu damkule wrote: View Post
              not trying to be argumentative, but i think you'd be hard-pressed to find any PG (outside of the uber-elite) that can/have put up 15 straight games of similar #s. i certainly understand what you're getting at (the need for consistency), but we really aren't holding any other players to that same level of expectation.

              that being said, while he's been impressive in his time as a starter (both last year & this), i'm not sure that that translates into being a bona fide starter in this L. CAN he be a starter? absolutely, he's definitely got the proper mental makeup for it...unfortunetly, i think he lacks the mental ability to be a PG.

              someone else mentioned he could start, but on a bottom-feeding team. i don't think that's entirely true, but i have a hard time envisioning him as the starting PG on a contending team either. it's a catch-22...he plays better as a starter, but what he produces as a starter would be really, really good out of a back-up on a good team...but when he's in a back-up role, his production falls off a cliff.
              You are absolutely correct. My point was consistency. Obviously just about everyone has a bad game from time to time - usually more frequently than once every 15 games.

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              • #37
                Right here. I still think he forces his shot too much, when he's hot it doesn't matter but he does it regardless.

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                • #38
                  OzRapFan wrote: View Post
                  That Bayless be our SG of the future?
                  Yes he is undersized, but what does he not bring to the 2 that DeMar does?
                  Why not ... bring in Tyreke Evans to play PG, and they can mesh roles on offense and defence
                  The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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                  • #39
                    I've watched the game and I am ready to make my comments. I read some of your comments before I watched the game, so I was really keeping an eye on him. Yes he did have a good game, well he was good for a portion of the game. He shot the ball very well when he was moving the ball around and played with in the game.

                    I find in every game he has a spell that he thinks he's Jordan and needs to dominate the ball. He was doing so well, until the fourth(and a couple other stints), then he just starting looking for his own shots and letting the other four guys stand around. There was a 5 minute span that he did that and failed, he eventually went to the bench. After he is benched he usually comes back out and is out of that mode.

                    I find if he gets pressured he doesn't know how to deal with that and just runs a wild set, usually a wild drive to the basket. I don't mean wild in a good way. That's the difference between Jose and Bayless. Jose is calm and collected. Jose still can see the floor and knows where to go to break the pressure and take advantage of the situation. How often do you see Jose with his back to the offensive half court looking over his shoulder when his defender is pressuring him. Very rarely, he staying facing his opponent and can seen the entire court. If he gets double teamed he passes it off and then gets it back and settles everything down. Over all I think Jose has better passing skills, ball handling, vision, and basketball IQ.

                    Bayless could be a good point guard, if he stays with in the game. He can learn to be a better point guard, but I don't think he can acquire the talent Jose, and other pass first pg's have/had(Nash, Stockton, M. Jackson, Rubio). Some players have it, and some players don't. I don't like bringing up hockey, but their are certain players much like basketball players, that are just play makers, that see beyond what other players see, Gretzky, Adam Oates, Recchi etc, they had a knack for knowing trends and a where people were going, almost knowing things before they happened. Bayless doesn't have it and probably never will.

                    Yes he can score, no doubt about that. I think he is a SG, and not a point guard. I think if anyone tried to get 7 assists in the game they could. It's more than just stats, and that's what we have been saying. It's a demeanor, the ability to make players better and feed your team, setting a tempo, calming your team down, and exploiting the defence. Everything Jose does is calculated, trying to move players away from areas to set someone open in their comfort zone. I just don't see this from Bayless.

                    We won the game and he played well as a PG. That's ONE game so far since he's started that he has been a PG. Let's see if he can build on that. He has his chance to prove that he can play as a PG.

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                    • #40
                      Raptorsss wrote: View Post
                      I've been saying all year long..watch him play a full a game and see how good he is. The past three games the guy has produced, end of story! He might be the best 3-point shooter on the team. The guy is a legit future starting PG in the league...
                      This "hater" term is so overused around here. We can be critical of a player and not be a "hater". To hate means you've gone beyond the basketball court, it's personal, you're blinded by a negative bias. To be critical on the other hand is to back up your negative view point with actual substance: you see problems, you identify those problems and that's where it ends. Three games isn't enough to silence "the haters", nothing ever will be. Three games also isn't enough to silence people critical of his game, it's too small a window. He's had hot stretches like this in the past. This is nothing new. I want to know where he is the rest of the time.

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                      • #41
                        Bottom line: Good statline as a result of mediocre PG play. That's not what I'm looking for in a future floor general. This is real life, not fantasy hoops.

                        This is very similar to the Bargnani argument last year. Yeah he put up great numbers, but he sucked as a centre.

                        Yeah Bayless can put up good numbers, but he sucks as a PG.

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                        • #42
                          I think we're all jumping the gun a bit too fast here.

                          Bayless is only 24 yrs old, has been in the league only 4 years and three of those years only played less than 15mins a game, with his role clearly undefined by the teams he's played in.

                          And with the Raptors, he played a bit over half a season last year and this year without a proper training camp and summer regimen.

                          Can he be a starter for the Raps? I think so. He's definitely quick enough to chase PGs, he has a mean quick first step. He has range. Turnovers, that can be fixed during training camp and growth of team chemistry. He just needs to learn to control offensive situations and determine what to do in crucial situations (end of shot clock, when stuck in the lane, etc). Jennings attempts more shots than him per 36mins. And so does Paul. The only difference is they have teammates who convert their passes into points. Cant be said the same for Bayless.

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                          • #43
                            Nilanka wrote: View Post
                            Bottom line: Good statline as a result of mediocre PG play. That's not what I'm looking for in a future floor general. This is real life, not fantasy hoops.

                            This is very similar to the Bargnani argument last year. Yeah he put up great numbers, but he sucked as a centre.

                            Yeah Bayless can put up good numbers, but he sucks as a PG.
                            Is there any player on this team that you actually like? hahaha kidding
                            Youre starting to sound like you graduated from the school of Tim W!

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                            • #44
                              I'm cool with Bayless getting a chance to prove that he can play the PG position properly, but only for the rest of the season. I'd rather go a different direction if he plays how he played up to this point. He has had his chances to show he can lead the team every game in a reserve role, and he doesn't take advantage of it. That's how you become a starter in this league, unless you are good enough coming out of college. Bayless hasn't earned to start over Calderon, and I don't think he has proved he can start as a PG. If we are aspiring to have a future point guard worse than Calderon, I think that is a problem.

                              All this bull* about he is better as a starter, doesn't appeal to me. It shows me that he has an ego problem, he can't accept a role, and he is mentally week. If you let that dictate your game something is wrong. If he wants to start and consider himself a PG, come of the bench as an affective point guard, not a similar version of Barbosa.

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                              • #45
                                tbihis wrote: View Post
                                I think we're all jumping the gun a bit too fast here.

                                Bayless is only 24 yrs old, has been in the league only 4 years and three of those years only played less than 15mins a game, with his role clearly undefined by the teams he's played in.

                                And with the Raptors, he played a bit over half a season last year and this year without a proper training camp and summer regimen.

                                Can he be a starter for the Raps? I think so. He's definitely quick enough to chase PGs, he has a mean quick first step. He has range. Turnovers, that can be fixed during training camp and growth of team chemistry. He just needs to learn to control offensive situations and determine what to do in crucial situations (end of shot clock, when stuck in the lane, etc). Jennings attempts more shots than him per 36mins. And so does Paul. The only difference is they have teammates who convert their passes into points. Cant be said the same for Bayless.
                                His only 23 won't turn 24 till august. He is one year older than Brandon Jennings and DeMar DeRozan. No where near his prime yet. I find it wierd that ppl are willing to give up on him and say give DeMar time.
                                @Chr1st1anL

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