Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Everything Jerryd Bayless

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • jimmie wrote: View Post
    Someone asked why the debate is still on. I offered my opinion. Some fans prefer style over substance, that's inarguable, and it's my thinking that this preference means they will always overvalue a guy like Bayless.

    I'm reading RealGM too much, too, admittedly. Check out the Bayless jockers over there and you might understand where I'm coming from. Folks are comparing JB favorably to the likes of Derrick Rose and Deron Williams. I don't suggest that everyone here is in that boat, but some clearly are.

    You'll note that I also qualified my statement by limiting it to those who think Bayless can be a good starting PG in the NBA. Those who are saying he'd be a valuable piece for the right price, or a replacement for Barbosa, etc. are not that far off in opinion from those of us who would rather not have him back.

    If someone is still in the group that thinks he can be a good starting 1, then that position isn't just opposite to other posters here, but also opposite to the majority of scouts, coaches, and management people in the NBA. Which *might* suggest a lesser understanding of the game.
    i dont think people are overvaluing Bayless. Nobody saying he's elite or superstar level. nobody's saying he's worth more than his current salary. what people including me are saying is that he COULD be a possible starting PG for this team. Nobody's saying get rid of Jose and get Bayless to start. We are saying the Bayless can possibly be the future PG of this team, and my reasoning is give him a full training camp and season of practices then judge him after. Its not like his contract is an albatross.

    Well dont carry over your REALGM readings over here, coz this aint the same forum.

    I dont think you can generalize, you dont know what those scouts, coaches and management are thinking. Some might think Bayless is capable, but every team now has a stable PG in place. And just because they think it doesnt mean they can act immediately on it. I mean BC is definitely thinking that he'd like Lebron in a Raptors uniform, doesnt necessarily mean he has the ability to acquire him. Your reasoning is circumstantial.

    And this is a forum, nothing is wrong or right here. Its all opinions. You cant say somebody knows less just because it doesnt jive with what others are saying. This aint an academe forum.

    Comment


    • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
      I agree with your points, but Bayless has multiple problems that come along with him. Problems that the greatest of point guards in our league just don't encounter. And that's why he continues to be a problem/downgrade as a POINT GUARD compared to Jose or any other point guard. If continues his good stats, running the team well, and playing well, than I will for sure have second thoughts. I was one of those guys who wanted Bayless to be the starting point guard for the team.
      I think thats one of the many issues that Raptors have been putting their selves in. You cant keep acquiring and acquiring and hoping that the player work out, and if not, trade them. Thats what ive been arguing for all along, stability. Bayless has the tools to be a good PG, and it starts with something that not all PGs in the league possess, being a good defender. IMO, Bayless issues are mostly mental, which is probably fixable. And i cant stress enough the need for team chemistry.

      Comment


      • Read my post again. I'm not saying anyone is "smarter" than anyone else. I'm suggesting that the experts might know more than someone posting on a fan forum. And despite your suggesting that we don't know these scouts, coaches and management so we can't guess what they are thinking, well, you're off base. All the evidence of Bayless' history in the NBA suggests he has been given opportunities and has not been able to capitalize on them.

        I think it was you that said something about him being "stuck behind" Steve Blake in Portland. That's an example of the flawed argument the pro-Bayless guys have. He wasn't stuck behind anyone in Portland; he came in there as the prospective starter learning behind Miller, and promptly played his way to the back of the line. Blake was supposed to be the 3rd stringer there, and he rose to the starting spot.

        Look, we're never going to agree, I don't think, and that's quite alright with me. I'm not saying anyone is "smart" or "dumb". People have different takes on how the game *should* be played. In this case, those of us who think Bayless has too many negatives in his game to be a good starting PG happen to agree with "the experts".

        If you can find examples of league personnel actually saying Bayless just needs more of a chance, please, have at it. I just haven't seen or read anything like that, so I'll keep believing that he's a flawed player until a combination of the stats and watching the games leads me to believe otherwise.
        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

        Comment


        • One last thing on this: Take a read of this and see if you can guess when it was written.

          Tonight was a frustrating evening on a number of counts for Bayless. The biggest: with Wesley Matthews sitting due to injury and Nicolas Batum exiting the game early due to injury, Bayless saw some extended court time and even played down the stretch during the fourth quarter. Unfortunately he was mostly a non-factor, and his turnover was ugly, as he carelessly stepped on the end line while trying to inbound the ball after a made basket against soft pressure, with Portland trying to protect a fourth-quarter lead. It was the kind of play that would get him yanked during the regular season, or the preseason, for that matter, if McMillan had anyone else to turn to.

          Bayless is making progress on trying to find the open man rather than beeline to the rim over and over but the location of his passes is often poor. Many times this preseason, and multiple times again tonight, a spotting-up shooter has had to lean down, reach up, or step to the side to receive a kickout pass that should have and could have been sent directly to his shooting pocket. Roy missed a three to close one of the quarters after being forced to deal with a low kickout from Bayless. His assist rate would skyrocket if he's able to make the proper adjustments. This feels correctable through mass repetition, but it could also be a by-product of a lack of chemistry and familiarity with his role and teammates. Time will tell.
          October, 2010.

          Since then, his game hasn't changed much. Time and a body of work have told us that he likely just is what he is at this point. If you like that, and consider it worth $5M/year, then like I said, I don't think we'll ever agree.
          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

          Comment


          • jimmie wrote: View Post
            One last thing on this: Take a read of this and see if you can guess when it was written.



            October, 2010.

            Since then, his game hasn't changed much. Time and a body of work have told us that he likely just is what he is at this point. If you like that, and consider it worth $5M/year, then like I said, I don't think we'll ever agree.
            Source? If you can prove that this was written by a scout, coach or management then i'll end my argument. it sounds like an article from a journalist, or probably even an internet blogger. just because you found it on the net and written about Bayless doesnt mean it came from somebody of authority. Heck, Tim W. has his own website about the Raps. Doesnt mean he has the inside scoop.

            And youre picking apart his 2 years playing as a rookie and sophomore, at 13mins and 17mins a game! seriously! Like i said, if people had given Amir a chance after playing 3 and 8 games his 1st 2 years in the league, um, why not Bayless?

            Oh and dont inflate his salary, its $3mil this season and $4mil next.

            Im not trying to get you to agree to anything. What im trying to do is dispute your statement that just because we dont agree youre making me, and others who support Bayless, seem to "know less about basketball" than you do.

            Comment


            • jimmie wrote: View Post
              Read my post again. I'm not saying anyone is "smarter" than anyone else. I'm suggesting that the experts might know more than someone posting on a fan forum. And despite your suggesting that we don't know these scouts, coaches and management so we can't guess what they are thinking, well, you're off base. All the evidence of Bayless' history in the NBA suggests he has been given opportunities and has not been able to capitalize on them.

              I think it was you that said something about him being "stuck behind" Steve Blake in Portland. That's an example of the flawed argument the pro-Bayless guys have. He wasn't stuck behind anyone in Portland; he came in there as the prospective starter learning behind Miller, and promptly played his way to the back of the line. Blake was supposed to be the 3rd stringer there, and he rose to the starting spot.

              Look, we're never going to agree, I don't think, and that's quite alright with me. I'm not saying anyone is "smart" or "dumb". People have different takes on how the game *should* be played. In this case, those of us who think Bayless has too many negatives in his game to be a good starting PG happen to agree with "the experts".

              If you can find examples of league personnel actually saying Bayless just needs more of a chance, please, have at it. I just haven't seen or read anything like that, so I'll keep believing that he's a flawed player until a combination of the stats and watching the games leads me to believe otherwise.
              Did you see the word "smarter" in my post? What im saying is we who think Bayless can be a future PG of the Raptors do not "know less about basketball" than you do.

              Given opportunities? playing behind legit starters? as a rookie and sophomore? really?

              And i wasnt the one who said he was stuck behind Blake. Scratch that one.

              Experts? Like who?

              Well, the funny thing is, youre turning this around on me. I didnt say that experts said Bayless should be a starting PG. That was just my opinion. You were the one who said that coaches, scouts and management and experts were saying that he CANT be a PG. So why dont you find the official release and post it here? Just because they traded him doesnt mean he CANT be a PG or isnt good enough to be a PG. If thats always the case, then I guess G. Wallace is not a good SF? Coz Portland traded him. Deron is not a good PG, coz Utah traded him. Oh and Gasol was never a good center coz Memphis traded him, right?

              Dont get me wrong here, Im not being argumentative (well, i kinda am, but in a calm way), i mean im not being confrontational. Im just saying point out your opinions but dont belittle mine, at least not out loud, hehehe.
              Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Thu Mar 15, 2012, 06:10 PM.

              Comment


              • Dude, I'm done. I've presented my opinion. I'm not trying to "prove" anything to anyone. Time will tell whether Bayless is worth his salt.

                The facts are there for you to find if you're actually interested. Google is pretty easy. Again, I'm done. You won't hear from me on this thread again.
                Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

                Comment


                • jimmie wrote: View Post
                  Dude, I'm done. I've presented my opinion. I'm not trying to "prove" anything to anyone. Time will tell whether Bayless is worth his salt.

                  The facts are there for you to find if you're actually interested. Google is pretty easy. Again, I'm done. You won't hear from me on this thread again.
                  Touche.

                  Comment


                  • Bayless. Continue what you've been doing for this team, because you could be a guy for us in the future.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                    Comment


                    • Bayless = Nick Young

                      If you like scoring, Bayless is God.

                      If you like discipline and fundamentals, Bayless is [insert unheard of player's name here].

                      Comment


                      • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                        Bayless = Nick Young

                        If you like scoring, Bayless is God.

                        If you like discipline and fundamentals, Bayless is [insert unheard of player's name here].
                        +1
                        Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                        Comment


                        • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          Bayless = Nick Young

                          If you like scoring, Bayless is God.

                          If you like discipline and fundamentals, Bayless is [insert unheard of player's name here].
                          That is a terrible comparison. Nick young is a moron and he shows off wayy too much. Bayless is a more understanding guy and he actually plays defense and knows how to pass. I don't even think Nick young knows what passing means

                          Comment


                          • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                            +1
                            -1

                            Comment


                            • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                              That is a terrible comparison. Nick young is a moron and he shows off wayy too much. Bayless is a more understanding guy and he actually plays defense and knows how to pass. I don't even think Nick young knows what passing means
                              Bottom line is they both stink, lol.

                              Comment


                              • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                                That is a terrible comparison. Nick young is a moron and he shows off wayy too much. Bayless is a more understanding guy and he actually plays defense and knows how to pass. I don't even think Nick young knows what passing means
                                Bayless takes so many bad shots that it just scratches his passing. Bayless just doesn't know how to make good offensive decisions referring to scoring. You can say the same about Nick Young. Terrible discipline in scoring decisions, and has no play-making ability. Bayless is a better play-maker, but just barely a good one.
                                Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X