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Thread: Everything Jerryd Bayless

  1. #101
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    For me, the truest (is that even a word?), most accurate evaluation of Bayless is... my wife. Before we got married, she had never watched a game, but now she even "likes" the Raptors on Facebook. Throughout Bayless' time on the Raptors, my wife has been constantly baffled by Bayless' play, often asking me questions like: "why is he playing 1 on 5?" or "why doesn't he use his teammates the way Caldy does?" or "why doesn't he pass the ball more?" or "why does he stand there and dribble for so long and then just take a long shot that isn't even close?". Even as a recent basketball fan, my wife is able to observe the fact that the offense just seems to stall when Bayless subs in for Calderon and that they have to work twice as hard to get a basket. I just laugh when she gets into a game and gets so frustrated when Bayless jacks up a forced shot early in the shot clock to kill the team's momentum, exclaiming "Bayless is useless" at the TV... makes me proud! lol
    Enough said.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    For me, the truest (is that even a word?), most accurate evaluation of Bayless is... my wife. Before we got married, she had never watched a game, but now she even "likes" the Raptors on Facebook. Throughout Bayless' time on the Raptors, my wife has been constantly baffled by Bayless' play, often asking me questions like: "why is he playing 1 on 5?" or "why doesn't he use his teammates the way Caldy does?" or "why doesn't he pass the ball more?" or "why does he stand there and dribble for so long and then just take a long shot that isn't even close?". Even as a recent basketball fan, my wife is able to observe the fact that the offense just seems to stall when Bayless subs in for Calderon and that they have to work twice as hard to get a basket. I just laugh when she gets into a game and gets so frustrated when Bayless jacks up a forced shot early in the shot clock to kill the team's momentum, exclaiming "Bayless is useless" at the TV... makes me proud! lol
    Have you ever heard of the show "Wife Swap"?





    Ummmmm, just joking, honey.

  3. #103
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Have you ever heard of the show "Wife Swap"?





    Ummmmm, just joking, honey.
    lol I ususally get home from work just as the game is starting and I'm often lucky enough to find the game already on our big TV... those are the days I feel like a lucky man!

    Bottom line is that all you have to do is watch the game in an unbiased manner, and it becomes pretty clear that Bayless isn't a distributor who looks to make his team better. He looks to get his own first, then looks to his teammates second. Good player, bad point guard.

  4. #104
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    He misses wide open players, whether it's cutting, back-doors, mismatches, the hot hand, he just can't see these things. His court awareness is not very good, he can't see where defenders are coming from when he's pressured fully, and he can't control the other four players in creating an offence. He's too unpredictable, and if you saw the Cleveland game, he ran one play, which was the shooting guard come off double screens in the low post to free open. He got picked off quite a bit off of those plays, and they changed their game-plan defensively, because they knew Bayless was only going to run that one play. He got his playing time, and had nice stats. But a couple assists came off 'pass at the last second', and he threw up so many prayers, luckily he made them. I remember when he tried putting a move on Irving, and held the ball for 3 seconds, than threw it up like it was a bomb, and drained it. Sure, confident shot, but not a good one.

    Basketball IQ for a point guard, is know all plays defensively/offensively, know your check, find mismatches, see your teammates, run the team smoothly, control shot selection whether it's your shot or your teammates', make the right play/decisions, know who has the hot-hand, and it's your job to lead the team into the game-plan. He did a fair job of running the team vs. Cleveland, but he had as many bad decisions as good ones. And, I'm not talking about turnovers. Jump-shots, tunnel vision, telegraphing etc. etc.
    There are only a hand full of PG that do all that. Like does every except the raptors to get a hall famer at the PG spot?

  5. #105
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    lol I ususally get home from work just as the game is starting and I'm often lucky enough to find the game already on our big TV... those are the days I feel like a lucky man!

    Bottom line is that all you have to do is watch the game in an unbiased manner, and it becomes pretty clear that Bayless isn't a distributor who looks to make his team better. He looks to get his own first, then looks to his teammates second. Good player, bad point guard.
    Ahhhh quit rubbing it in.


    lol

  6. #106
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    There are only a hand full of PG that do all that. Like does every except the raptors to get a hall famer at the PG spot?
    Is it really too much to expect a PG to be able to run an offense smoothly and effectively?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Would you happen to know where we can see Bayless' metrics?
    I am almost certain you can buy the "passes leading to open shot" data as the close out telemetry is already in place.

    I measure this and a few other things the old fashioned way for my local team. My goal is to determine if I can sell the results and if charting and crunching basketball data is something interesting enough to occupy my time when I retire.

  8. #108
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Have you ever heard of the show "Wife Swap"?
    Why swap if you have a spare collar in need of a new neck?

  9. #109
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Is it really too much to expect a PG to be able to run an offense smoothly and effectively?
    They're arent many PG that are like that. Nash, Kidd, Calderon, Paul, Williams, Rubio, Rondo. If you look their all old or getting up there. They're hard to find and get.

  10. #110
    Raptors Republic Rookie jamesk's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    I've been saying all year long..watch him play a full a game and see how good he is. The past three games the guy has produced, end of story! He might be the best 3-point shooter on the team. The guy is a legit future starting PG in the league...
    -So where are all the Bayless haters?

    In every front office in the NBA

  11. #111
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Put 2 and 2 together man. Why did Triano still go back to Calderon? Why does Casey?
    Because Calderon is and has been the PG of this team. For numerous seasons. You cant supplant him based on a couple of games.

  12. #112
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    For me, the truest (is that even a word?), most accurate evaluation of Bayless is... my wife. Before we got married, she had never watched a game, but now she even "likes" the Raptors on Facebook. Throughout Bayless' time on the Raptors, my wife has been constantly baffled by Bayless' play, often asking me questions like: "why is he playing 1 on 5?" or "why doesn't he use his teammates the way Caldy does?" or "why doesn't he pass the ball more?" or "why does he stand there and dribble for so long and then just take a long shot that isn't even close?". Even as a recent basketball fan, my wife is able to observe the fact that the offense just seems to stall when Bayless subs in for Calderon and that they have to work twice as hard to get a basket. I just laugh when she gets into a game and gets so frustrated when Bayless jacks up a forced shot early in the shot clock to kill the team's momentum, exclaiming "Bayless is useless" at the TV... makes me proud! lol
    Haha! This is so true -- my wife is the same way. She absolutely can't stand watching Bayless run the point, and while she played basketball in high school (and won the Northern Ontario free throw championship one year, as she'll happily tell you), she's not what I would call an aficianado of the game.

    My opinion on why there's so much debate over Bayless is that there are two main kinds of basketball fans: those that like the run-and-gun, semi-chaotic style of offense with tons of athleticism and 'exciting' plays with less regard for fundamentals, and those that like more traditional, fundamentally-sound basketball, which requires a PG with solid game management skills.

    Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. But even those who seem to want him to stay in TO are at least starting to come around to the notion that he's not a good PG even if he can score like a microwave on occasion and get some assists. Those who aren't, well, I don't have much of an answer, but maybe they just don't understand the game that well?
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  13. #113
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    So if you didn't see the game you wouldn't get the point. Stats don't tell the full story. If it was all about stats, Al Jefferson wouldn't be part of so many losing teams.

    He continually looked off teammates, got the ball to people at wrong time or in poor position.

    He did a great job as a shooting guard.
    I do need to watch the game.

    Al Jefferson is a good player, he's been traded around because he's usually the only asset remaining on a rebuilding team. Its not his fault he's been dealt to losing teams, his stats dont produce losing teams. Lack of help does.

  14. #114
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Haha! This is so true -- my wife is the same way. She absolutely can't stand watching Bayless run the point, and while she played basketball in high school (and won the Northern Ontario free throw championship one year, as she'll happily tell you), she's not what I would call an aficianado of the game.

    My opinion on why there's so much debate over Bayless is that there are two main kinds of basketball fans: those that like the run-and-gun, semi-chaotic style of offense with tons of athleticism and 'exciting' plays with less regard for fundamentals, and those that like more traditional, fundamentally-sound basketball, which requires a PG with solid game management skills.

    Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. But even those who seem to want him to stay in TO are at least starting to come around to the notion that he's not a good PG even if he can score like a microwave on occasion and get some assists. Those who aren't, well, I don't have much of an answer, but maybe they just don't understand the game that well?
    Im just wondering why everybody seems to be concentrating on his play this season when its pretty much a wash as we all know it, and no one is addressing the point that ive been trying to stress, a full training camp and full practices next season.

    And now im being labeled as "not knowing the game that well". I think this statement is funny. Doesnt mean we dont agree, means you know more than i do. No need to get personal.

  15. #115
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    I do need to watch the game.

    Al Jefferson is a good player, he's been traded around because he's usually the only asset remaining on a rebuilding team. Its not his fault he's been dealt to losing teams, his stats dont produce losing teams. Lack of help does.
    Al Jefferson is a great fantasy pick up.

  16. #116
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Al Jefferson is a great fantasy pick up.
    hahaha true! I have him on one of my teams.

  17. #117
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Go back to last year as a starter for 14 games and this year as a starter and Bayless averages around 20 points 6-7 assists. His turnovers as a starter I remember last year were less than Calderone. The point is, he has a makeup that that makes him play better as a starter. I suspect that if given more of an opportunity to start, the areas of his game where he is weakest would improve. As it stands the team does as well with Bayless at the point but there is also the promise of an upside that he could be really good if given the chance.
    It took until the 25th post for someone, to say exactly what i've been saying. Thank you!
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  18. #118
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Im just wondering why everybody seems to be concentrating on his play this season when its pretty much a wash as we all know it, and no one is addressing the point that ive been trying to stress, a full training camp and full practices next season.

    And now im being labeled as "not knowing the game that well". I think this statement is funny. Doesnt mean we dont agree, means you know more than i do. No need to get personal.
    Someone asked why the debate is still on. I offered my opinion. Some fans prefer style over substance, that's inarguable, and it's my thinking that this preference means they will always overvalue a guy like Bayless.

    I'm reading RealGM too much, too, admittedly. Check out the Bayless jockers over there and you might understand where I'm coming from. Folks are comparing JB favorably to the likes of Derrick Rose and Deron Williams. I don't suggest that everyone here is in that boat, but some clearly are.

    You'll note that I also qualified my statement by limiting it to those who think Bayless can be a good starting PG in the NBA. Those who are saying he'd be a valuable piece for the right price, or a replacement for Barbosa, etc. are not that far off in opinion from those of us who would rather not have him back.

    If someone is still in the group that thinks he can be a good starting 1, then that position isn't just opposite to other posters here, but also opposite to the majority of scouts, coaches, and management people in the NBA. Which *might* suggest a lesser understanding of the game.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Put 2 and 2 together man. Why did Triano still go back to Calderon? Why does Casey?
    Wow! really? Bayless has played behind established veteran point-guards his whole career. Did Ty Lawson start over Billups? Did Collison start ahead of Chris Paul, did Augustin start ahead of Felton? No, these players got playing time either, due to injuries or showing enough as a back-up to deem the more expensive veteran expendable. And guess what Bayless was rated and drafted higher than both Augstin and Collison and I am positive will end up having the better career. In either LA or Phoenix in my opinion.
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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    Wow! really? Bayless has played behind established veteran point-guards his whole career. Did Ty Lawson start over Billups? Did Collison start ahead of Chris Paul, did Augustin start ahead of Felton? No, these players got playing time either, due to injuries or showing enough as a back-up to deem the more expensive veteran expendable. And guess what Bayless was rated and drafted higher than both Augstin and Collison and I am positive will end up having the better career. In either LA or Phoenix in my opinion.
    First, how can you possibly call Paul and Billups "expendable"? Paul wasn't expendable, it was widely known that there was no way he would re-sign with the NBA-managed small market trainwreck that is the Hornets. Besides, Collison was traded away before Paul was anyway, so Collison didn't supplant Paul in New Orleans at all. Billups was an overpaid veteran on a team that was considered to be rebuilding, after trading away Carmelo. Had Carmelo not wanted out of Denver, I'd be willing to bet that both he and Billups would still be starting for the Nuggets to this day, with Lawson backing him up.

    Second, Bayless will never be the starting PG for a good NBA team. Period. People point to his slightly better stats as a starter as proof that he excels in that role... I say it's proof that he's a selfish player who doesn't care enough about the team to put in maximum effort UNLESS they start him. When he's the backup, he mopes around and plays at about 75%, much the same way Ford did after Calderon usurped the starting role from him. What it does show is his true character; a selfish, me-first player. Players with that outlook will never make the team better, nor will they look for their teammates ahead of their own shot. You can't change a person's character and I think the Raps are better off not having that type of character on the roster... it's poison for building a true "team".

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