No I don't think so. He's a better pg than an sg trust meOzRapFan wrote:
No I don't think so. He's a better pg than an sg trust me
We get it...
I don't mind him being the PG of the future honestly. People here are too used to seeing Jose spoon feed all of our players so they think we need a guy who will get 10+ assists every night. I really don't give a crap as long as we win. There are a shit load of scoring PG's in the league so i don't see the problem. He reminds me of a bigger TJ ford but arguably a better shooter. We could simply move jose to the bench and start bayless. I don't really mind
i like jerryd and think he could be a solid pg for a team in the future. With that said. We should trade Jerryd Bayless for steve nash(on a lower end resigned contract. Send nash home and send Bayless home to pheonix.
and how many championships has he won? where did his career go after he ditched the raptors to go to a decent team?
MY POINT?
You're all debating if Bayless can start for the Raptors....Of course Bayless is starting PG material for a poopie team but we ain't getting no championships with him as our starting PG.
That's besides the point. We shouldn't even be thinking about championship intill were a playoff team.
I think bayless is an underrated leader. I always see him telling the guys stuff on and off the court and i saw him speaking out to our players in the locker room. Tonight's loss was definitely not his fault, it was bargnani being off and same with DeRozan. Also Kleiza has been inconsistent as hell we needed him tonight and he didn't show up.
k?
Didn't watch the games vs. Nets. How was Bayless and JJ? They had nice statlines.
New Orleans never won a championship with Chris Paul as their starting point guard, Utah didnt win a championship with Deron Williams as their starting point guard, Phoenix never won a championship with Steve Nash as their starting PG, but we pretend like if we had those guys we would be winning championships.
We are lucky to have a player like Jerryd Bayless as a backup PG, imo I would very happily hand him the starting PG reigns on the raptors if we ever traded Jose.
For those that say "its obvious if you watch the game he can't run an offense." ummm... I don't know what you are talking about, I watch every single game and I like what I see most of the time. Sure he turns it over more than Jose, but he scores more himself, and he defends better (more physical), and he is fearless. That is the kind of guy you want to have the ball at the end of the game, someone with ice in his veins.
All the bayless haters need to get behind the starting PG of the raptors right now, and stop thinking the neighbours grass is greener. PG is not a position that we need to upgrade, jose and bayless have that position covered for us. Lets argue about beefing another position up.
I agree with your points, but Bayless has multiple problems that come along with him. Problems that the greatest of point guards in our league just don't encounter. And that's why he continues to be a problem/downgrade as a POINT GUARD compared to Jose or any other point guard. If continues his good stats, running the team well, and playing well, than I will for sure have second thoughts. I was one of those guys who wanted Bayless to be the starting point guard for the team.
pretty sure those portland teams all made deep playoff runs while he was there. if its all championships then jon stockton was garbage to you? karl malone not worth anything? even lebron is over rated i guess.
bayless could easily be given starting duties on a newly rebuilding team and let grow. if he can get consistent and play within the team he could even start for us. but until he shows a consistent level of play he is not starter material.
i am a raptors fan which means i want bayless to succeed. i want him to show the other two teams who he has played for what they gave up. i want him to show the naysayers that naysaying is wrong.
but you can't argue with feelings in this game you need to argue with facts.
Hey man, don't be talking about my boi Stockton that way.
Utah had a championship caliber team. Only problem was they had to go through MJ. A lot of championship caliber teams didn't win for the same reason.
Miami... as much as i hate to admit... is a championship caliber team. I don't mean that if they don't win anything they're garbage. What I mean is "are we putting the right pieces together that has a realistic chance to contend for the championship"?
As much as I hope that Bayless turns into a Rose type player (or even a Billups type player for argument sake) my better judgement tells me that he won't be. Mentally, physically, skill wise, you just have the potential or you don't and after so many years of analyzing it I don't think he does - feel the same about Derozan. Don't think you can build a championship caliber team on any of those two players.
I too am a Raptors fan but i'm more realistic.
PS - Damon slide his way to the bench in Portland
Last edited by raptors2012; Thu Mar 15th, 2012 at 04:01 AM.
im not talking about stockton. i love stockton i was making a point when you brought the fact that damon stoudamire was not a good point guard because he didn't win any championships after leaving toronto. when you make a vague comment like that you need to remember that a lot of even better pgs than damon also didn't win championships.
now it is championship caliber teams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2...Blazers_season
here is the link where they beat the utah jazz in the second round of the playoffs after sweeping pheonix in the first round.
Don't want to continue this much longer but you're misunderstanding me.
There's a difference between a good PG and a PG that can win you a championship... which is what I hope the raptors are trying to do.
I very much enjoyed watching Damon while he was in Toronto. I also very much enjoyed watching Iverson, who is one of my all time favs BUT how many teams thought they could win building around Iverson. Although he did almost single-handedly win it for Philly... but again, we're talking about building a team here.
PS - I'm saddened to see Iverson leave the way he did but he is not a team oriented player and this is what happens to the best of them.
Just my opinion, Bayless doesn't have the potential to be a PG on a championship caliber team.
i dont think people are overvaluing Bayless. Nobody saying he's elite or superstar level. nobody's saying he's worth more than his current salary. what people including me are saying is that he COULD be a possible starting PG for this team. Nobody's saying get rid of Jose and get Bayless to start. We are saying the Bayless can possibly be the future PG of this team, and my reasoning is give him a full training camp and season of practices then judge him after. Its not like his contract is an albatross.
Well dont carry over your REALGM readings over here, coz this aint the same forum.
I dont think you can generalize, you dont know what those scouts, coaches and management are thinking. Some might think Bayless is capable, but every team now has a stable PG in place. And just because they think it doesnt mean they can act immediately on it. I mean BC is definitely thinking that he'd like Lebron in a Raptors uniform, doesnt necessarily mean he has the ability to acquire him. Your reasoning is circumstantial.
And this is a forum, nothing is wrong or right here. Its all opinions. You cant say somebody knows less just because it doesnt jive with what others are saying. This aint an academe forum.
I think thats one of the many issues that Raptors have been putting their selves in. You cant keep acquiring and acquiring and hoping that the player work out, and if not, trade them. Thats what ive been arguing for all along, stability. Bayless has the tools to be a good PG, and it starts with something that not all PGs in the league possess, being a good defender. IMO, Bayless issues are mostly mental, which is probably fixable. And i cant stress enough the need for team chemistry.
Read my post again. I'm not saying anyone is "smarter" than anyone else. I'm suggesting that the experts might know more than someone posting on a fan forum. And despite your suggesting that we don't know these scouts, coaches and management so we can't guess what they are thinking, well, you're off base. All the evidence of Bayless' history in the NBA suggests he has been given opportunities and has not been able to capitalize on them.
I think it was you that said something about him being "stuck behind" Steve Blake in Portland. That's an example of the flawed argument the pro-Bayless guys have. He wasn't stuck behind anyone in Portland; he came in there as the prospective starter learning behind Miller, and promptly played his way to the back of the line. Blake was supposed to be the 3rd stringer there, and he rose to the starting spot.
Look, we're never going to agree, I don't think, and that's quite alright with me. I'm not saying anyone is "smart" or "dumb". People have different takes on how the game *should* be played. In this case, those of us who think Bayless has too many negatives in his game to be a good starting PG happen to agree with "the experts".
If you can find examples of league personnel actually saying Bayless just needs more of a chance, please, have at it. I just haven't seen or read anything like that, so I'll keep believing that he's a flawed player until a combination of the stats and watching the games leads me to believe otherwise.
Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.
One last thing on this: Take a read of this and see if you can guess when it was written.
October, 2010.Tonight was a frustrating evening on a number of counts for Bayless. The biggest: with Wesley Matthews sitting due to injury and Nicolas Batum exiting the game early due to injury, Bayless saw some extended court time and even played down the stretch during the fourth quarter. Unfortunately he was mostly a non-factor, and his turnover was ugly, as he carelessly stepped on the end line while trying to inbound the ball after a made basket against soft pressure, with Portland trying to protect a fourth-quarter lead. It was the kind of play that would get him yanked during the regular season, or the preseason, for that matter, if McMillan had anyone else to turn to.
Bayless is making progress on trying to find the open man rather than beeline to the rim over and over but the location of his passes is often poor. Many times this preseason, and multiple times again tonight, a spotting-up shooter has had to lean down, reach up, or step to the side to receive a kickout pass that should have and could have been sent directly to his shooting pocket. Roy missed a three to close one of the quarters after being forced to deal with a low kickout from Bayless. His assist rate would skyrocket if he's able to make the proper adjustments. This feels correctable through mass repetition, but it could also be a by-product of a lack of chemistry and familiarity with his role and teammates. Time will tell.
Since then, his game hasn't changed much. Time and a body of work have told us that he likely just is what he is at this point. If you like that, and consider it worth $5M/year, then like I said, I don't think we'll ever agree.
Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.
Source? If you can prove that this was written by a scout, coach or management then i'll end my argument. it sounds like an article from a journalist, or probably even an internet blogger. just because you found it on the net and written about Bayless doesnt mean it came from somebody of authority. Heck, Tim W. has his own website about the Raps. Doesnt mean he has the inside scoop.
And youre picking apart his 2 years playing as a rookie and sophomore, at 13mins and 17mins a game! seriously! Like i said, if people had given Amir a chance after playing 3 and 8 games his 1st 2 years in the league, um, why not Bayless?
Oh and dont inflate his salary, its $3mil this season and $4mil next.
Im not trying to get you to agree to anything. What im trying to do is dispute your statement that just because we dont agree youre making me, and others who support Bayless, seem to "know less about basketball" than you do.
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