View Poll Results: Should the Raptors Linvest at all costs?

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  • Yes

    4 10.81%
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    33 89.19%
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Thread: Lin to the Raptors a good idea? Lin Raptors Plan B? (168)

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Default Lin to the Raptors a good idea? Lin Raptors Plan B? (168)

    Carmelo goes down. Jeremy emerges out of nowhere and propels the Knicks to .500. He shows that he can be a quality, balanced pg in the NBA, especially with some good coaching and development.

    Anthony comes back, no chemistry with Lin; doesn't want to share the spotlight; doesn't want D'Antoni's ball sharing system...D'Antoni quits.

    Now, it seems obvious that there's no cohesion between Lin and Anthony, both stylewise and in terms of vision. It's obvious there's no room for both.

    The question is, should Toronto look at acquiring Lin.? If so, how could we make that happen?

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Pele wrote: View Post
    Carmelo goes down. Jeremy emerges out of nowhere and propels the Knicks to .500. He shows that he can be a quality, balanced pg in the NBA, especially with some good coaching and development.

    Anthony comes back, no chemistry with Lin; doesn't want to share the spotlight; doesn't want D'Antoni's ball sharing system...D'Antoni quits.

    Now, it seems obvious that there's no cohesion between Lin and Anthony, both stylewise and in terms of vision. It's obvious there's no room for both.

    The question is, should Toronto look at acquiring Lin.? If so, how could we make that happen?
    Free agency.

  3. #3
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    It's a gigantic mistake. He doesn't protect the ball, he's not that fast and he has no proven track record. Are Raptors fans going to enjoy 5 or 6 turnovers per game? Are they going to enjoy watching a fast break PG try and break guys down in a half court setting? ... Jose Calderon is a better defender. The recipe to me tastes like crap.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    It's a gigantic mistake. He doesn't protect the ball, he's not that fast and he has no proven track record. Are Raptors fans going to enjoy 5 or 6 turnovers per game? Are they going to enjoy watching a fast break PG try and break guys down in a half court setting? Jose Calderon is a better defender. The recipe to me tastes like crap.
    Oh yeah, I should have answered the first question in original post:

    "... should Toronto look at acquiring Lin?"

    To start? Definitely not.
    To backup? Maybe but I would imagine his asking price is now overly inflated.

  5. #5
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    To start? Definitely not.
    To backup? Maybe but I would imagine his asking price is now overly inflated.
    I was assuming both these were givens but I should have mentioned them in my post. A good article I posted on the NBA board:

    http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...867#post118867

    See post #76.

  6. #6
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    If Lin was a black guy named DeShawn and had the exact same skill/talent as Lin, would it be a good idea? There's your answer.

  7. #7
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    If Lin was a black guy named DeShawn and had the exact same skill/talent as Lin, would it be a good idea? There's your answer.
    Not sure how race comes into this. He has Rafer Alston disappointment and stupid contract written all over him... And at least with Skip he was proven to be able to ball in multiple systems. Lin has only done it for a short time in a system known for inflating PG stats. The rest of the season will tell a lot now that MDA is out. Game one saw Lin drop 6 turnovers in 22 minutes.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    he averaged 8 assists and 5 turnovers in Feb., in March he is averaging 7assists and 4 turnovers. Are we playing a system them would accentuate his skills? Based on his track record, I'd rather wait till the end of the season to see a larger sample size.

    The key thing about feb is that he was winning. That's what counts. I would definitely say he is good enough to play on the Raptors, but I don;t know in what capacity yet.

    Arsenalist, that was a bit of ass move to big race into it. Those kind of accusations shouldn't be passed around lightly. I expected more from someone who is a main contributor to this site.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    Arsenalist, that was a bit of ass move to big race into it. Those kind of accusations shouldn't be passed around lightly. I expected more from someone who is a main contributor to this site.
    Yea, I was shocked by the comment he made. Wow. Either Floyd Mayweather hacked into Arsenalist's account, or man, wow. That's so wrong and inappropriate.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Although the high turnovers scare me, I'm somewhat intrigued by Lin. I'm not sure if he's the "PG of the future" type, but how many other inexperienced PGs could've stepped in under those circumstances and thrived the way he did? I doubt there are many at all.

    This speaks more about Lin's mental ability, than his physical skills.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  11. #11
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    The key thing about feb is that he was winning. That's what counts. I would definitely say he is good enough to play on the Raptors, but I don;t know in what capacity yet.
    I'm not against him playing for Toronto. I just feel that now they would have to pay far too much to get him. You can't fairly assess him solely under D'Antoni. This is why now, under Mike Woodson we should glean a lot more intelligence on his game at the pro level. Could all those teams who failed to draft him or who cut him be wrong about the guy? I don't know but under Mike Woodson he's going to be playing under a system more typical to the NBA, more typical to what he would see in Toronto. D'Anotoni is a rarity, and anyone looking to sign Lin needs consider his impact on Lin, the impact he's has on past PGs and where they're at right now. *Hint: Start with Duhon and Felton.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    I think that in a convoluted way perhaps Arsenalist was trying to project that there is more to the Lin phenomena/popularity than just his basketball skills. I hear that there is at least one store in MSG exclusively selling Lin paraphernalia. And dont underestimate his value to developing the China market for the NBA. And which better place to be in than NYC. Both Dolan & Stern will be loathe to see him leave. Of course his play will have to keep pace and as others have noted that once the traditional (and playoff staple) half court game becomes the system his flaws will be further magnified.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Pele wrote: View Post
    Carmelo goes down. Jeremy emerges out of nowhere and propels the Knicks to .500. He shows that he can be a quality, balanced pg in the NBA, especially with some good coaching and development.

    Anthony comes back, no chemistry with Lin; doesn't want to share the spotlight; doesn't want D'Antoni's ball sharing system...D'Antoni quits.

    Now, it seems obvious that there's no cohesion between Lin and Anthony, both stylewise and in terms of vision. It's obvious there's no room for both.

    The question is, should Toronto look at acquiring Lin.? If so, how could we make that happen?
    To sum up something I had already posted, Lin's Knicks went 8-1 against primarily non playoff teams. The Melo-Lin mix went 2-8 against primarily solid playoff teams. The post D'Antoni Knicks beat the dysfunctional (again) Blazers. The Lin Knicks aren't great. The Melo Knicks don't suck. The Knicks are a .500 team.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Starter Fanchie's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Yea, I was shocked by the comment he made. Wow. Either Floyd Mayweather hacked into Arsenalist's account, or man, wow. That's so wrong and inappropriate.
    That is not inappropriate : bottom line is Lin is the starting PG of a sub .500 team, averaging 14.7 pts and 6.3 assists and not ranked any higher than #24 in any individual stat category. If you take this into account, you can claim that he's a younger but less versatile version of Rodney Stuckey (I'm not comparing game style, I'm comparing talent).

    Would Stuckey have had a sneaker designed for him in 2 weeks ? Would Rookie game rules have been changed to make room for Stuckey ? How many Stuckey articles have you read in your life ? And how many have you seen your friends sharing on Facebook ?

    Lin deserves credit for helping the Knicks win several games in a row and winning that starter spot, no doubt about it. But THAT much credit ? To quote what Arse was saying and rephrase it, can you honestly claim that any player would have got that much coverage ? It is not about race as physical disparity, it is about being the only asian-american in the NBA : you have more chance to get noticed, especially in Asia where potential customers are counted in billions...

    Lin is good, but he's not worth $[insert the number of millions he'll get on his next contract, whatever it is]M.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator .40 Cal Flakes's Avatar
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    Quote Pele wrote: View Post
    The question is, should Toronto look at acquiring Lin.? If so, how could we make that happen?
    No. Cut it out right now. Terrible idea. Terrible.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Rookie Checkines's Avatar
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    He was a good story, that's it. Does not fit the Raptors teams direction

  17. #17
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    Jeremy Lin would be a great pick up by the Raptors. If you watch him play, you'll notice that he's a really good passer, a great one in transition. His one-on-one man defense is really good, he doesn't bite on any fakes or hesitation moves. Defensively his only troubles are off of picks (which I believe is partially the help defense's fault, partially his) and with his help defense. He has some of the quickest hands in the league, he gets a ton of steals when he's on the court, but he has a tendency to overhelp. I think that with a good defensive coach, he actually has a chance to be a great defensive player.

    Offensively, he's quick, he can shoot (although he is streaky, somewhat like Kleiza is), but sometimes he overpenetrates and sometimes he simply has a loose handle. These are problems, they're his biggest weaknesses. However, they're not as bad as his turnover numbers would make it seem. A lot of his turnovers are either from him passing when he should be shooting and trying to hit a big man with hard passes to their hands (which if made would be easy conversions). He has great court-vision. Everyone sees this, Hubie Brown mentions it, Clyde Frazier mentions it. He also plays extremely well in clutch situations. His level of play increases as pressure builds. He's been like this for his whole life, even since high school.

    I do think that he shouldn't be starting now, but I also think that he's going to be a great starting point guard when he develops further. On the Raptors next year, specifically, he would play really, really well with DeRozan and Valanciunas. Valanciunas is lauded for his exceptional hands for a big man. Lin would make tons of easy plays for him. Lin and him in the pick and roll would be devastating. DeRozan is great at finishing plays, but he's a poor ball-handler. Lin, being the smart player that he is, and good passer like he is, would do an excellent job of giving him the ball in situations in which he make a quick move to the basket or for a jump shot. On a team with so many good finishers, Jeremy Lin would be perfect. He would be perfect for the 12-13 Toronto Raptors.

  18. #18
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Fanchie wrote: View Post
    Lin is good, but he's not worth $[insert the number of millions he'll get on his next contract, whatever it is]M.
    I agree with this but the off the court stuff is irrelevant. GM's aren't going to care about gate numbers or endorsements, they're going to care about the on court product because in the end that will lead to consistent gate numbers and sponsorships as opposed to playing out gimmicky stuff. My fear was a guy like Colangelo gets duped by stats skewed due to the "D'Antoni Effect". That won't be the case now that he'll have to play under Mike Woodson the rest of the way in a traditional system which I feel will expose the player he really is, the player all those teams cut. That conclusion is logical when you consider the teams who cut him and compare their coaches to Woodson and to D'Antoni. They match up to Woodson, not D'Anotoni. All that said, somebody is going to look at the hot streak with MDA and they're going to give out a contract which is too much.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Starter Fanchie's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I agree with this but the off the court stuff is irrelevant. GM's aren't going to care about gate numbers or endorsements, they're going to care about the on court product because in the end that will lead to consistent gate numbers and sponsorships as opposed to playing out gimmicky stuff. My fear was a guy like Colangelo gets duped by stats skewed due to the "D'Antoni Effect". That won't be the case now that he'll have to play under Mike Woodson the rest of the way in a traditional system which I feel will expose the player he really is, the player all those teams cut. That conclusion is logical when you consider the teams who cut him and compare their coaches to Woodson and to D'Antoni. They match up to Woodson, not D'Anotoni. All that said, somebody is going to look at the hot streak with MDA and they're going to give out a contract which is too much.
    I think you under estimate the weight of China in this. I am ready to bet that Jeremy Lin will be a starter in the ASG next year, whatever his stats are. And the year after. And after. It took 2 games for Chinese TV channels to buy the rights on Knicks games and broadcast them to their 1.5 billion population. They are highly contaminated by the Lin fever over there, and even if he underperforms big time, it'll take a long time for them to stop being crazy about him.

    GM might not care, but owners do. At some point, when you can become the #1 franchise in China's heart, selling tons of jerseys, by slightly overpaying a guard, you tell your GM to do it. At the end of the day, it is a business.

  20. #20
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I'm not underestimating anything, I'm telling you a GM's mandate is to put the best product on the floor possible. GM's rarely get fired while they're winning lots of games. The majority of the time GM's get fired for losing games. Why? Because their job is to win games, to improve the team and eventually win a title. It is the marketing department's job to figure out ways to sell more merchandise. Lin wasn't signed by the Knicks to sell sneakers and jerseys. He was signed on a flier, was almost cut and or traded multiple times and by chance before either could happen they were forced by default to play him. I think you're crossing wires here and reading too deeply into how the Knicks have handled Jeremy Lin.

    Quote Fanchie wrote: View Post
    GM might not care, but owners do. At some point, when you can become the #1 franchise in China's heart, selling tons of jerseys, by slightly overpaying a guard, you tell your GM to do it. At the end of the day, it is a business.
    Frankly, as a fans we shouldn't want the team we cheer for to have priorities set to milking gimmicks instead of winning games. Further, if the MLSE board demanded Colangelo sign Lin that's the minute I boycott the team. That's the very same crap which led to the team stinking for most of the last decade and it's the very same crap they promised not to get involved in again. Number crunchers count money, basketball minds make basketball decisions. Deviate and you're headed for major troubles.

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