View Poll Results: Should the Raptors Linvest at all costs?

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  • Yes

    4 10.81%
  • No

    33 89.19%
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Thread: Lin to the Raptors a good idea? Lin Raptors Plan B? (168)

  1. #201
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    +1 again..plus jose is a better shooter hands down.

    But let's forget the rational reasons why we shouldn't do it (and the reasons are endless). For some reason, I knew we would be talking about this the day he started playing well. The only reason why anyone cared about him was because he was doing this in New York. I cannot remember the last time I have seen something more overhyped

    Does anyone not remember when Joey Graham put together a great stretch for 15 games that propelled us into the playoffs a while back? No one gave a sh*t even though sucked for most of his career (and still does).

    Its the same thing as the Willis Reed story. We hear that all the time, even though Kevin McHale played some games on a broken foot for the Celtics. New York controls more of the media than anyone else, and that is why people think what Jeremy Lin did was a big deal. But if someone spent the time I am positive that you could find dozens of players who have played well for 7 games in a row.

    Let's stop with this BS and try to win some basketball games
    I don't agree with the Joey Graham comparisons. Yes, Graham did put together a good stretch of games for us, but he didn't single-handedly win games for a team that had trouble winning games without him. Big difference.

    IMO, Lin's 2 week stretch of play was more important/noteworthy than Bargnani's 13-game stretch, because the Knicks were actually winning games.

    Lin definitely has holes in his game, but he's still young, and has the basketball IQ (as well as academic IQ, lol) to figure things out. I'm not necessarily advocating overpaying for his services in Toronto, but I'm simply speaking against the notion that his 15 minutes of fame is up. He's going to be a good PG in this league, provided that he's treated like a project.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Tue May 15th, 2012 at 03:38 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #202
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default The Institute of Stupid

    Guys, he followed the U.S. media template the way he was taught:

    • Always slurp the big markets.
    • Hype the shit out of the story so it get hits and if you're wrong, who cares? It's not like you're going to remind anyone about it. Accountability and integrity are not part of the curriculum. Forget those terms.
    • Destroy anything foreign mentioned in the story. Cite hearsay, don't name names and what ever you do, don't and I repeat don't check the facts. If you're doing a television broadcast be sure to act smug when this particular topic comes up; acting smug gives you an air tight case, use it liberally.

  3. #203
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't agree with the Joey Graham comparisons. Yes, Graham did put together a good stretch of games for us, but he didn't single-handedly win games for a team that had trouble winning games without him. Big difference.

    IMO, Lin's 2 week stretch of play was more important/noteworthy than Bargnani's 13-game stretch, because the Knicks were actually winning games.

    Lin definitely has holes in his game, but he's still young, and has the basketball IQ (as well as academic IQ, lol) to figure things out. I'm not necessarily advocating overpaying for his services in Toronto, but I'm simply speaking against the notion that his 15 minutes of fame is up. He's going to be a good PG in this league, provided that he's treated like a project.
    But as I've pointed out, Bayless actually proved a more effective play maker than Lin.
    Not to mention, Bayless had a GREAT stretch of games this season as Starting PG; games which we won a handful of, if I'm not mistaken.
    He's going to be a good PG in this league, provided he's treated like a project.
    In Masai we Trust.

  4. #204
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    This isn't Yahoo. It is Bleacher Report. Enough said.
    Yes I now realize that. Feel free to remove. Enough said. Sorry thought it was news worth reporting. Now I know! Peace

  5. #205
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    Quote theycallmeZZ wrote: View Post
    Don't forget that this year yielded their first playoff win since 2001. Longest playoff losing streak in NBA history.
    Yeah, and Lin was not part of that!

  6. #206
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    But as I've pointed out, Bayless actually proved a more effective play maker than Lin.
    Not to mention, Bayless had a GREAT stretch of games this season as Starting PG; games which we won a handful of, if I'm not mistaken.
    He's going to be a good PG in this league, provided he's treated like a project.
    I've seen enough of Bayless over the past 2 seasons to know that "quarterbacking" does not come natural to him. He did put up decent assist numbers during a stretch, but I still can't say with any confidence that he was getting players the ball in the best position to score. He's not a natural PG, and I don't believe there are any numbers that would convince me otherwise.

    As for Lin, I've seen far fewer of his games compared to Bayless, so I admit this isn't a fair assessment. But from I have seen of Lin, he is a natural PG.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  7. #207
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    Yes I now realize that. Feel free to remove. Enough said. Sorry thought it was news worth reporting. Now I know! Peace
    No worries. It is still a good article to show the ignorance the Raptors face as a franchise. Luckily a lot of people, outside Toronto and its fans, know the difference.

  8. #208
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I've seen enough of Bayless over the past 2 seasons to know that "quarterbacking" does not come natural to him. He did put up decent assist numbers during a stretch, but I still can't say with any confidence that he was getting players the ball in the best position to score. He's not a natural PG, and I don't believe there are any numbers that would convince me otherwise....
    No one has been harder on Bayless than myself (well...actually some real mean guys have) but he showed me that it is possible he could learn to play the PG position as a team quarterback, as opposed to simply a high scoring player who also has the job of bringing the ball down the floor after the team inbounds.

    I saw good assist numbers that were actually well placed assists. All I needed to see was the ability to do it. I believe Casey can provide the impetus to get him to continue in that manner, if that is what Casey wants (and the team needs) out of him. I feel much better about keeping him into next season and on. Which gives the Raps more flexibility, which is what they need moving on into the next couple of seasons.

  9. #209
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I've seen enough of Bayless over the past 2 seasons to know that "quarterbacking" does not come natural to him. He did put up decent assist numbers during a stretch, but I still can't say with any confidence that he was getting players the ball in the best position to score. He's not a natural PG, and I don't believe there are any numbers that would convince me otherwise.

    As for Lin, I've seen far fewer of his games compared to Bayless, so I admit this isn't a fair assessment. But from I have seen of Lin, he is a natural PG.
    He didn't put up nice assists over a stretch; over the whole season, Bayless was a more effecient 'Quarterback' than Jeremy Lin.

    And with the amount of shots Lin took, and turnovers he gave away, I wouldn't say he's really 'Pass First' or a 'Natural' PG.

    Natural Point Guards don't turn the ball over 10 times a game.
    Last edited by Joey; Tue May 15th, 2012 at 05:56 PM.
    In Masai we Trust.

  10. #210
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I wouldn't want either Lin or Bayless on the team next year... however if I had to choose between the two, I'd pick Lin and the only reason would be because I want my PG to be good at the pick and roll - and IMO, Lin is far superior at that then Bayless is.

  11. #211
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    you should compare our rosters because Jay Bay is a drive and kick PG like Sessions. He needs guys to cut and spot up for 3 and we barely have any players that do that. Right now the talent between the Raptors and Knicks is significantly different with the Knicks having more. Next Season, if Bayless is retained, we'll have more talent and, as dwane casey stated, a fast paced offense. I'd rather bayless run a fast run and gun offense because he fast as shit and he can run with the best of em.

  12. #212
    Raptors Republic Rookie badbob's Avatar
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    I would look at getting Lin but not at all costs!!!! It would be very good for marketing with all the asian people in Toronto. I remember going to the Raptor game when New York was playing and I couldn't believe the number of people who were there just to cheer for Lin and not there to cheer for the Raptor's. Can you imagine if he was playing for the Raptor's what an attendence there would be cheering for both Lin and the Raptor's!!!

  13. #213
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't agree with the Joey Graham comparisons. Yes, Graham did put together a good stretch of games for us, but he didn't single-handedly win games for a team that had trouble winning games without him. Big difference.

    IMO, Lin's 2 week stretch of play was more important/noteworthy than Bargnani's 13-game stretch, because the Knicks were actually winning games.

    Lin definitely has holes in his game, but he's still young, and has the basketball IQ (as well as academic IQ, lol) to figure things out. I'm not necessarily advocating overpaying for his services in Toronto, but I'm simply speaking against the notion that his 15 minutes of fame is up. He's going to be a good PG in this league, provided that he's treated like a project.
    I'm sorry I just don't agree. Joey Graham was averaging a double double in more meaningful games that had playoff implications. But nevertheless, the point is whether or not the hype was justified and why Joey Graham's stretch, or anyone else's for that matter, isn't as famous. Jeremy Lin is just another guy, but he plays for the Knicks so he became a story. Joey Graham played for the raptors and that's why he didn't. Pretending that this does not have to do with the media is completely unjustifiable.

  14. #214
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    He didn't put up nice assists over a stretch; over the whole season, Bayless was a more effecient 'Quarterback' than Jeremy Lin.

    And with the amount of shots Lin took, and turnovers he gave away, I wouldn't say he's really 'Pass First' or a 'Natural' PG.

    Natural Point Guards don't turn the ball over 10 times a game.
    You're grossly exaggerating Lin's turnovers. In the last 26 games he played (all over 22 minutes of court time), Lin averaged 4.5 turnovers per game.

    Lin took shots because he had to. He wouldn't be jacking up that many shots under normal circumstances. But when your best teammate is Landry Fields, taking 20 shots isn't exactly a problem....especially when it results in wins.

    Bayless is not a point guard, period. Casey knows it. Colangelo knows it. The only one who doesn't realize it, is Bayless.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  15. #215
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry I just don't agree. Joey Graham was averaging a double double in more meaningful games that had playoff implications. But nevertheless, the point is whether or not the hype was justified and why Joey Graham's stretch, or anyone else's for that matter, isn't as famous. Jeremy Lin is just another guy, but he plays for the Knicks so he became a story. Joey Graham played for the raptors and that's why he didn't. Pretending that this does not have to do with the media is completely unjustifiable.
    Sure, the NY media had something to do with it. But it's not the sole reason, or even the biggest reason. An unknown player single-handedly leading his shitty team to improbable wins, and doing so multiple times, is a big story on it's own merit.

    Joey Graham was a bench player putting up double-doubles during his good "stretch". And if he didn't, the Raptors would've been perfectly fine without him. Graham was still the 5th option on the floor (at best). His 7-8 game run was literally meaningless, especially considering it came after 3.5 years of ineptitude. Management wasn't talking about re-signing Graham at all costs following that season, and there certainly weren't any other teams willing to make aggressive offers for his services.

    Like I said, not an accurate comparison at all.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #216
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    You're grossly exaggerating Lin's turnovers. In the last 26 games he played (all over 22 minutes of court time), Lin averaged 4.5 turnovers per game.
    Lol 4.5 TOPG would lead the League by a decent margin, Nilanka. Not a good start.
    I'm not exaggerating at all. He turned it over ALOT.

    He played an average of 26MPG, 136th in the League, and still managed to crack the Top 7 in Turnovers. Thats BAD.


    Lin took shots because he had to. He wouldn't be jacking up that many shots under normal circumstances. But when your best teammate is Landry Fields, taking 20 shots isn't exactly a problem....especially when it results in wins.
    There were games where he was taking 17 and 18 shots WITH Carmelo and Amare in the Lineup.

    And once again, Bayless, played UNREAL as a PG, for a solid stretch of games, led us to wins against some solid teams ... and he's still not a PG? Odd.

    Bayless is not a point guard, period. Casey knows it. Colangelo knows it. The only one who doesn't realize it, is Bayless.
    And me.

    And I'll point it out again. Bayless managed a better Assist/TO ratio than Lin, which to me, IS the measurement of a Point Guard.
    In Masai we Trust.

  17. #217
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post

    And I'll point it out again. Bayless managed a better Assist/TO ratio than Lin, which to me, IS the measurement of a Point Guard.

    so if a SG averages 3 assists and 1 turnover a game he is a PG now?

  18. #218
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Per 36 minutes last year Lin was close to 5 TO/game. Raptors fans will lose their mind within a year of this guy starting after watching the ultra conservative and protective Jose Calderon for all these years. Half the fan base couldn't stand watching T.J. Ford's risks with the basketball. They aint seen nothing yet if Lin ends up here.

  19. #219
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    so if a SG averages 3 assists and 1 turnover a game he is a PG now?
    Not at all.
    It shows me that he is not forcing the issue and making bad decisions, to the detriment of his team.

    Bayless spent ALOT of time at PG and played well. Guys can try and say he's not a PG, but if you're going to give me the whole "Lin is a Project, and Young and etc etc.", then its a little hypocritical to not afford the same luxury to Bayless.
    (They're the same age)

    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    so if a SG averages 3 assists and 1 turnover a game he is a PG now?
    So if a PG puts up 20 shots, 10 assists and 10 turnovers, does it still make him a True PG because he put up 10 assists?
    In Masai we Trust.

  20. #220
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Joey, the difference is Bayless plays in Canada and so American media don't give him any credit. If Bayless was starting for the Knicks and getting 26MPG there would be arguments on whether he's worth $7M/yr. It is what it is. For what Bayless will earn for his talent he will be at a great discount in comparison to Lin. That's not saying a whole lot when people are talking about back loaded deals of $10M/yr for Lin.

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