View Poll Results: Should the Raptors Linvest at all costs?

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Thread: Lin to the Raptors a good idea? Lin Raptors Plan B? (168)

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I think it's easy to forget that this guy was cut by two teams. Do you know how much it takes to be released by a team? For God's sakes we still have friggin' Solomon Alabi on our roster! That should give you some idea. And now he's the starting PG for the Mecca of basketball, in the biggest city in North America.

    As a Raptors fan I wouldn't want to sign Lin to anything until we knew what type of player he's going to be. Do a quick Player Season Search on b-r.com and you'll see that there were a bunch of (now superstar) guards who averaged 3+ turnovers, 6+ assists while shooting 45%+. Dwyane Wade, Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Deron Willams -- to name a few. Extend it to non-active players and you have Tim Hardaway, Kenny Smith. If you sort them all together with PER, Lin is amongst the top 3. That's the ceiling, but the floor is waaaaaaay down. Remember Flip Murray? Similar situation of a guy who was largely forgotten, who bursted into the scene and was amazing.. for a couple of seasons. Another issue is that most of these guys named above were scouted all through college and what they became was at least closer to what people expect of them. Lin is pretty much coming out of nowhere.

    There's no way of knowing which direction Lin goes from here on out. Mike D'Antoni offenses have historically boosted players' stats. As long as you have a team catering to Carmelo Anthony's wishes, chances are you won't see as many 20/8 games from Lin. And then by the end of the season you're looking at a point guard with still a lot of weaknesses. I'm sure many remember Flip Murray who exploded into the season and then just tailed off. We don't know enough about Lin to sign him, and we have enough question marks on our team as it is.

    I'm sure other GMs are thinking the same way. Love to have him, but unsure of the future. Need more data.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    No deal howie...no deal.

  3. #43
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Dont forget Nash and Rondo. Oh and Westbrook and Durant. Oh and Kobe.
    All these guys are in the Top 20.
    Turnovers come with the territory.
    Do you really need me to explain the difference of Nash, Rondo, Bryant and Durant when compared to Jeremy Lin?

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Ah, the bubble has burst, courtesy of a douchebag named Carmelo. A team without a PG running the offense is difficult in the championship stages. You got a bunch one and dones in New York and the ball hogs the likes of Carmelo will ruin the Knicks. Time to donate those BalLin' shirts to Goodwill Spike! For the record, I love Lin and HATE Carmelo Anthony and all the Melo-type players in the league.

    Ps> Lin would do well in a Raps uniform because we don't have a douchbag player in the Raps locker room. BC has successfully assembled a humble team with a team-oriented coach in Casey. Woodson and his "Melo and Amare will be running the offense" philosophy. Hahahahaha. What a joke. You don't need to be a basketball genius to figure out how basketball is played. Is this the same coach that was tuned out by his team in the playoffs two years ago?
    Last edited by Balls of Steel; Fri Mar 16th, 2012 at 10:54 AM.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  5. #45
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default The party is over:

    You know that crazy three-point shot that Jeremy Lin made to beat the Raptors last month? Well, don't expect to see anything like that again now that Mike Woodson is the Knicks' interim coach.

    Lin, and the Knicks' other young players, stand to be the biggest losers in the transition from Mike D'Antoni's offense to Woodson's.
    "But I want everyone to know that when it comes to [crunch time] and I have to get a big shot, I'm going to go to Melo and Amar'e and guys who have done it. Not these guys who are young and are still trying to feel their way out."
    Lin, who became a starter Feb. 6 and flourished in D'Antoni's pick-and-roll, run-and-gun system, certainly will not play the same kind of starring role in Woodson's defensive-minded game. On Wednesday, Lin had six points and six assists -- among his lowest totals since he joined the rotation -- and six turnovers.
    "It will be a different style and a different system," Lin said. "We still have to figure it out, because we don't have it all figured out . . . I just have to be aggressive. But it's going to be different ways. Different ways to initiate offense. Different ways to score and create. It's definitely going to be a change."
    "I love D'Antoni's system,'' Lin said. "It was perfect for me. But I never had been in D'Antoni's system before this year. So it's like going back to what I was doing before and stuff like that."
    Source: Newsday.com

    For all you people focused on Lin, watch some Knicks games down the stretch. You're going to see more of what you'd get if he were a Raptor from this point on. What he did under MDA would not happen in Toronto and if you think it would then please explain that to me in detail because last time I checked Casey wasn't an offensive mastermind running an offense more indicative of the European style of play.

    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Ah, the bubble has burst, courtesy of a douchebag named Carmelo. A team without a PG running the offense is difficult in the championship stages. You got a bunch one and dones in New York and the ball hogs the likes of Carmelo will ruin the Knicks. Time to donate those BalLin' shirts to Goodwill Spike! For the record, I love Lin and HATE Carmelo Anthony and all the Melo-type players in the league.

    Ps> Lin would do well in a Raps uniform because we don't have a douchbag player in the Raps locker room. BC has successfully assembled a humble team with a team-oriented coach in Casey. Woodson and his "Melo and Amare will be running the offense" philosophy. Hahahahaha. What a joke. You don't need to be a basketball genius to figure out how basketball is played. Is this the same coach that was tuned out by his team in the playoffs two years ago?
    Melo doesn't want to run the offense. He no doubt does expect his 20-25 shots per game though. Based on what I've read he expects those shots where he wants them.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Do you really need me to explain the difference of Nash, Rondo, Bryant and Durant when compared to Jeremy Lin?
    No need. I was just pointing out the turnovers.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Source: Newsday.com

    For all you people focused on Lin, watch some Knicks games down the stretch. You're going to see more of what you'd get if he were a Raptor from this point on. What he did under MDA would not happen in Toronto and if you think it would then please explain that to me in detail because last time I checked Casey wasn't an offensive mastermind running an offense more indicative of the European style of play.
    I kinda disagree. Casey values his PG play and actually prefers to push the ball. Under the right tutelage, Lin reminds me of Calderon. Over time, his turnovers will be dealt with. His pick and roll play was very decent. There's too much ego with the Knicks that a quiet guy like JL would not thrive under. It's only a matter of time before he makes his way to the bench in favor of Davis. A real shame if you ask me. The Knicks were on a freaking roll before Melo came in and ruined the party. Is it an accident that Nash thrived under DA? Same goes for Lin. Yes, Casey is not an offensive juggernaut. He does however, value the role of his PGs. Just see how important Calderon is to the team. I think the other factor here is that Lin is coachable and wants to learn, watches tapes, etc. a sponge. That's good in my opinion. I would love to have him over Bayless any day.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  8. #48
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    No need. I was just pointing out the turnovers.
    Ok but that doesn't help validate his inability to protect the ball. If Lin was as dominate as Nash he wouldn't need to look over his should when he coughed the ball up but he's not Steve Nash or anything close to Steve Nash. Under Mike Woodson and seemingly any other coach he's met in the NBA who wasn't Mike D'Anotoni, he's needs to be greatly concerned by it.

    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    I kinda disagree. Casey values his PG play and actually prefers to push the ball. Under the right tutelage, Lin reminds me of Calderon. Over time, his turnovers will be dealt with. His pick and roll play was very decent. There's too much ego with the Knicks that a quiet guy like JL would not thrive under. It's only a matter of time before he makes his way to the bench in favor of Davis. A real shame if you ask me. The Knicks were on a freaking roll before Melo came in and ruined the party. Is it an accident that Nash thrived under DA? Same goes for Lin. Yes, Casey is not an offensive juggernaut. He does however, value the role of his PGs. Just see how important Calderon is to the team. I think the other factor here is that Lin is coachable and wants to learn, watches tapes, etc. a sponge. That's good in my opinion. I would love to have him over Bayless any day.
    Casey doesn't run his offense like D'Antoni. A lot more goes into MDA's coaching then telling his PG to push the ball.

    Lin is nothing like Calderon. Calderon is the model for conservative, highly intelligent, highly efficient play.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I think it's easy to forget that this guy was cut by two teams. Do you know how much it takes to be released by a team? For God's sakes we still have friggin' Solomon Alabi on our roster! That should give you some idea. And now he's the starting PG for the Mecca of basketball, in the biggest city in North America.

    As a Raptors fan I wouldn't want to sign Lin to anything until we knew what type of player he's going to be. Do a quick Player Season Search on b-r.com and you'll see that there were a bunch of (now superstar) guards who averaged 3+ turnovers, 6+ assists while shooting 45%+. Dwyane Wade, Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Deron Willams -- to name a few. Extend it to non-active players and you have Tim Hardaway, Kenny Smith. If you sort them all together with PER, Lin is amongst the top 3. That's the ceiling, but the floor is waaaaaaay down. Remember Flip Murray? Similar situation of a guy who was largely forgotten, who bursted into the scene and was amazing.. for a couple of seasons. Another issue is that most of these guys named above were scouted all through college and what they became was at least closer to what people expect of them. Lin is pretty much coming out of nowhere.

    There's no way of knowing which direction Lin goes from here on out. Mike D'Antoni offenses have historically boosted players' stats. As long as you have a team catering to Carmelo Anthony's wishes, chances are you won't see as many 20/8 games from Lin. And then by the end of the season you're looking at a point guard with still a lot of weaknesses. I'm sure many remember Flip Murray who exploded into the season and then just tailed off. We don't know enough about Lin to sign him, and we have enough question marks on our team as it is.

    I'm sure other GMs are thinking the same way. Love to have him, but unsure of the future. Need more data.
    Very, very good comparison. Youre actually right, its pretty much the same situation with Flip Murray. And i too back then got hyped up when Flip burst into the scene.

    There are 2 differences tho, seattle was a bad team, i dont think they even made the playoffs that year. while nyk right now is on the verge of making the playoffs, which in some way shape or form, Lin's contributions actually mean something to the team. 2nd, Lin's is obviously more celebrated than Flip's. And factoring this in, the pressure for coaches to play Lin is far greater than the coaches on Flip before. Lin is an attraction now, and i think that could be a factor in how many minutes he gets too.

    Im not saying it would be awesome to have Lin as a Raptor, im just saying it wont be that bad. But reading the posts since my last post is actually convincing me otherwise.

  10. #50
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Ok but that doesn't help validate his inability to protect the ball. If Lin was as dominate as Nash he wouldn't need to look over his should when he coughed the ball up but he's not Steve Nash or anything close to Steve Nash. Under Mike Woodson and seemingly any other coach he's met in the NBA who wasn't Mike D'Anotoni, he's needs to be greatly concerned by it.



    Casey doesn't run his offense like D'Antoni. A lot more goes into MDA's coaching then telling his PG to push the ball.

    Lin is nothing like Calderon. Calderon is the model for conservative, highly intelligent, highly efficient play.
    I think we need to cut the kid some slack. He played 29 games for the Warriors, at 9mins per game, in a system where there's no defense, then coming to another system where mostly attack the basket is preached. And like i said, he's style of play is very aggressive, so chances are, he will commit more turnovers. And he hasnt even gone through a full training camp and practices. I dont think he's all star material, but i think its a bit too early for us to judge what he can truly do on the court.

    and whats to his advantage is him being in the spotlight, too fast too soon. because his rise was so highly celebrated, nobody will just toss him aside and consider him as a one hit wonder, at least that my opinion. Somebody will always give him a chance, just because of Linsanity.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri Mar 16th, 2012 at 11:22 AM.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Ok but that doesn't help validate his inability to protect the ball. If Lin was as dominate as Nash he wouldn't need to look over his should when he coughed the ball up but he's not Steve Nash or anything close to Steve Nash. Under Mike Woodson and seemingly any other coach he's met in the NBA who wasn't Mike D'Anotoni, he's needs to be greatly concerned by it.



    Casey doesn't run his offense like D'Antoni. A lot more goes into MDA's coaching then telling his PG to push the ball.

    Lin is nothing like Calderon. Calderon is the model for conservative, highly intelligent, highly efficient play.
    I didn't say that Casey runs it like MDA, I just said that Casey likes to push the ball and run his usual dose of high screens pick and rolls. I'm not saying that their styles on offense is identical. Also, Calderon is much more experienced than Lin. I said, he reminds me of Calderon in many ways, like pass-first and occasionally shoots. Both their defense is at par. Both Lin and Calderon are half-court guys. They're both not fast and is fundamentally driven. Is Calderon better, yes. He is much older, played extensively in Europe and here. Lin is a newb but like I said, under the right tutelage and system (as witnessed in MDA's) system CAN BE VERY GOOD SOMEDAY.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  12. #52
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I think it's soon enough to know that his market price is going to more than the Raptors should be willing to pay. I also think if he's shown enough to receive praise then he's shown enough to receive criticism.

    He's not going to get the "MDA experience" in Toronto. He's more likely to get offensive coaching in close relation to that of which he received on those teams that cut him. MDA is a rarity. His style is not common place.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    How is this thread still happening
    @jerboat

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think it's soon enough to know that his market price is going to more than the Raptors should be willing to pay. I also think if he's shown enough to receive praise then he's shown enough to receive criticism.

    He's not going to get the "MDA experience" in Toronto. He's more likely to get offensive coaching in close relation to that of which he received on those teams that cut him. MDA is a rarity. His style is not common place.
    I think there is going to be more than one team who could give him a contract based more on his marketability off the court than his performance on the court, sadly. I definitely hope that team is not Toronto.

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic Starter Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think it's soon enough to know that his market price is going to more than the Raptors should be willing to pay. I also think if he's shown enough to receive praise then he's shown enough to receive criticism.

    He's not going to get the "MDA experience" in Toronto. He's more likely to get offensive coaching in close relation to that of which he received on those teams that cut him. MDA is a rarity. His style is not common place.
    Nobody has his Bird rights. Thus, his market price is capped at the MLE.

    If anything he's a bargain for that price.

  16. #56
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    Flash Lin the pan.

  17. #57
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Nobody has his Bird rights. Thus, his market price is capped at the MLE.

    If anything he's a bargain for that price.
    Wow, someone save this. This illustrates exactly what I was pointing out earlier. This guy has Rafer Alston disappointment written all over him.

    Prime, this whole time when I was saying I would be worried about him being overpaid by the Raptors I had the full MLE in my mind. That's far too much.

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Wow, someone save this. This illustrates exactly what I was pointing out earlier. This guy has Rafer Alston disappointment written all over him.

    Prime, this whole time when I was saying I would be worried about him being overpaid by the Raptors I had the full MLE in my mind. That's far too much.
    If he keeps having a diminished role in NY I see him signing somewhere else with playing time/larger role (now that he has ataste of it).

  19. #59
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    They have the right to match any offer for him.

  20. #60
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    Listen, the Knicks are not giving Lin up because of how much revenue he will generate for them. Letting him go is like giving away free money. Who knows what his worth is in free agency is, but I would imagine the Knicks get him at a fair deal Gms will approach with caution like all you mentioned. Plus, WHO THE FUCK ELSE DO THEY HAVE TO PLAY POINT GUARD. Douglas? no Davis playing more then 20 mins a game? no Shumpert is not a pg, hes more of a Barbosa type energy/ scoring guy off the bench(obviously brings different things but that was a surface comparison). Unless a giddy owner wants to create hype(maybe prokorov when he loses Dwill will offer a dumb contract. But i think Lin stays put, other teams have more to lose and the knicks need him for an a assortment of reasons.

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