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Thread: Barbosa traded to Pacers for 2nd round pick (Official - post 155)

  1. #181
    Raptors Republic Starter Prime's Avatar
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    "If a team is below the cap (which Toronto is), then their Disabled Player (Toronto has none), Bi-Annual ($1.8M Raptors do have), Mid-Level ($5M Raptors have) and/or Traded Player exceptions (new $7.6M) are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap."
    This quote is assuming that the Raptors have a TPE to work with. There is no TPE created.

    Read Q70 in his salary FAFQ

    71. What is the Traded Player exception?

    As described in question number 70, exceptions are the mechanisms that allow teams to function above the salary cap. Any trade which results in the team ending up over the salary cap requires an exception. This is true even if the team is moving downward in salary. For example, if the salary cap is $50 million, a team has a team salary of $55 million, and they want to trade a $5 million player for a $4 million player, they still have to use an exception. Even though their team salary would be decreasing by $1 million, the fact that they would still be over the salary cap ($54 million) means that an exception is required.
    The Raptors were never above the salary cap, so this trade doesn't create a TPE.
    Last edited by Prime; Thu Mar 15th, 2012 at 10:20 PM. Reason: bolded important parts

  2. #182
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The fact that no one reporting the trade is mentioning a TPE (as far as I can tell) is good enough for me to go with Prime on this one. It didn't sound right for them to get a TPE to begin with, no one is reporting it unless I missed it and Prime makes some good point.

  3. #183
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    DraftExpress.com 2012 Mock Draft is a good place to start your research.
    thanks. i was hoping to have it done for me though i will check at lunch

  4. #184
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    I don't think you understand what salary cap exceptions do. They only count towards team salaries if the total brings it over the cap. Suppose if the Raptors brought back someone with double the salary (not possible but let's just assume they did), then a TPE would be created because the Raptors would be over the cap.

    The Raptors were never over the cap to begin with (i.e. with Barbosa) hence no TPE was created. Read the first line of your quote again.

    EDIT:

    Source: http://www.sportscity.com/NBA/Salary-Cap

    Basically, NO TPE IS CREATED since the Raptors were never over the cap. Not every trade generates a TPE.
    I'm not as confident as I was. Basically 50/50 on it.

    Your 50: both teams were under the cap and no one went over.

    My 50: each team has their exceptions (MLE, Bi-Annual, Top Up) available to them. Even if they are below the cap in terms of payroll, they can still be technically over it with their exceptions - however the exceptions don't cost the team anything if they don't use them. A perfect example is the signing of Gray and Forbes: Raps were below the salary cap but signed Gray using the $2,5M top up exception and Forbes using part of bi-annual exception ($1.5M of $1.8M over 2 years). All their other signings were minimum contracts (Butler, Carter, Magloire) which you can use regardless of cap situation. Don't forget before the first day of the season the Raptors also had JV and Weems counting against their cap. The Raps were under the salary cap to start the off-season yet used exceptions.


    The end result is moot unless a trade is made prior to July 1st that has the Raptors ending out salary.

  5. #185
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    didn't read all the posts but i'm sure we all agree barbo was worth probably a late first rounder. maybe there was just no market for him but i'd rather have a 2nd round pick than nothing so i'm fine with this trade.

  6. #186
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The fact that no one reporting the trade is mentioning a TPE (as far as I can tell) is good enough for me to go with Prime on this one. It didn't sound right for them to get a TPE to begin with, no one is reporting it unless I missed it and Prime makes some good point.
    And as quickly as it began the Leandro Barbosa era in Toronto has come to an end. The Brazilian Blur has been routed to the Playoff-bound Indiana Pacers to act as a reserve scoring punch to the East's fifth-best team. In return the Raptors get a second-round pick and a $7.6-million trade exception that they have one year to make use of. While neither asset holds the excitement for fans that an actual player holds, both are plusses as the Raptors look to return to relevancy next season.
    Source: Tim Chisholm, TSN.ca

  7. #187
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    This quote is assuming that the Raptors have a TPE to work with. There is no TPE created.

    Read Q70 in his salary FAFQ

    The Raptors were never above the salary cap, so this trade doesn't create a TPE.
    I have tapped out. I think you are correct, sir.

    Last time I take Tim Chisholm at face value.

    I missed number 70. I was caught up in 71 and 72. Thank you for setting me straight.

  8. #188
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    And how does a team under cap in the Raptors' scenario use a TPE again?

  9. #189
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    And how does a team under cap use a TPE again?
    My original thinking was the Raptors, by not renouncing any exceptions, would be over the cap. If they made a trade with contracts going out within trade rules of CBA then they could use TPE to take on up to $7.6M more in salary.

    I think Prime has set me straight though.

    Although I'm still a little confused regarding off season acquisitions but the more I think about it the confusion is clearing.

  10. #190
    Raptors Republic Starter Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Your 50: both teams were under the cap and no one went over.
    This has nothing to do with the Pacers. (Other than the trade, of course lol)
    My 50: each team has their exceptions (MLE, Bi-Annual, Top Up) available to them. Even if they are below the cap in terms of payroll, they can still be technically over it with their exceptions - however the exceptions don't cost the team anything if they don't use them. A perfect example is the signing of Gray and Forbes: Raps were below the salary cap but signed Gray using the $2,5M top up exception and Forbes using part of bi-annual exception ($1.5M of $1.8M over 2 years). All their other signings were minimum contracts (Butler, Carter, Magloire) which you can use regardless of cap situation. Don't forget before the first day of the season the Raptors also had JV and Weems counting against their cap. The Raps were under the salary cap to start the off-season yet used exceptions.
    I see where you're confused now.

    We didn't use any exceptions to sign either Forbes or Gray. Gray signed for the vet minimum + some extra (comes up to about $916k). He wasn't signed using an exception. Forbes signed a 3 year deal with the 3rd being a TO. That's not the bi-annual.

    The $52M (our payroll before the trade I mentioned in my other post) + ~$4.5M cap hit from JV = $56.5M

    Still under the cap.

  11. #191
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    So I guess we should expect a huge signing or trade Between the end of season and July 1st.

  12. #192
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    This has nothing to do with the Pacers. (Other than the trade, of course lol)
    I see where you're confused now.

    We didn't use any exceptions to sign either Forbes or Gray. Gray signed for the vet minimum + some extra (comes up to about $916k). He wasn't signed using an exception. Forbes signed a 3 year deal with the 3rd being a TO. That's not the bi-annual.

    The $52M (our payroll before the trade I mentioned in my other post) + ~$4.5M cap hit from JV = $56.5M

    Still under the cap.
    This is something I am sure of:

    ESPN.com's Marc Stein, Steve Kyler of HoopsWorld, and SI.com's Sam Amick are among those writing that the Raptors have cap space (about $4.3MM) to put toward an offer for Chandler. It had previously been thought that the Raptors had used their mid-level exception and bi-annual exception to sign Aaron Gray and Gary Forbes respectively. If the team has available cap space, however, it must have renounced its $16MM in cap holds, signed Forbes using cap space, and signed Gray using its $2.5MM room exception for teams under the cap. Still, a contract starting at $4.3MM won't be enough to scare off the Nuggets, so if the Raptors are serious about Chandler, they could try to make a trade that clears more cap space, as Kyler reports.
    http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/02/o...-chandler.html

    So I was half right - Forbes was signed using cap space.

    HoopsHype.com is the only site claiming Gray is $915k. Everyone else has him at $2.5M.


    Right now they can’t do a sign-and-trade (under the rules of the CBA) and they can only offer him a contract starting at $4.3 million U.S. (what they have left under the salary cap). That won’t get it done, meaning they’ll have to make a trade that opens up some more cap space (trading out a bigger salary for a player or players making $2 million or so less or moving someone like Leandro Barbosa for a trade exception).

    The team spent the new mid-level exception for room teams ($2.5 million) on Aaron Gray, allowing them to keep their remaining cap space.

    http://blogs.canoe.ca/courtside/gene...-for-leverage/
    Regardless, on the TPE in question I am most definitely wrong.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Mar 16th, 2012 at 07:07 AM.

  13. #193
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    I'm thinking Manny Harris

  14. #194
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Don't be surprised to see him back.....

    Via HoopsHype.com:

    Jorge Sierra: Arturo Barbosa tells HoopsHype his brother Leandro is happy about the trade to Indiana, but also very emotional about it. "(Leandro) was drafted by Brian Colangelo and they are very close since 2003," Arturo said. "He would like to be with the Raptors because he had confidence that the team could have a reaction and then go to playoffs." Twitter

    I would not be surprised to see Leandro back - especially if Toronto acquires significant salary on draft night. The reason is they could then use part or all of the MLE on him.

  15. #195
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    This is something I am sure of:



    http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/02/o...-chandler.html

    So I was half right - Forbes was signed using cap space.

    HoopsHype.com is the only site claiming Gray is $915k. Everyone else has him at $2.5M.




    Regardless, on the TPE in question I am most definitely wrong.
    Although not quite sure anymore:

    The ESPN Trade Machine has credited Toronto with a $7.6M trade exception despite being under the cap by about $4.3M.

  16. #196
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    one of the items on my wish list was no leandro on the roster after the season and it has happened. i dont want him back.

  17. #197
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Never heard of the TPE before Bosh, and to this day it continues to confuse me. Cant any team just dole out a TPE during any trade to balance salaries?

  18. #198
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Larry Coon answered my Barbosa TPE question in his chat today!!!
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salary...rry-coon-32112


    Sam

    Larry, I heard that Toronto got a TPE for trading Barbosa to Indiana. If that is true how is that possible if Toronto was under the cap at the time of the trade?

    Larry Coon

    Yes, they got a trade exception for $7.6 million, which expires 3/15/2013 (in other words, it will last through both the offseason and next season’s trade deadline).

    Whether Toronto was under or over the cap depends on how you define “under the cap.” It’s true that their signed & waived players add up to just $46.1 million, which is $11.9 million under the cap. But when determining the amount of room a team has for signing free agents and for determining whether they get/keep their exceptions, you also have to include cap holds. The Raptors have cap holds for a number of free agents for whom they have Bird rights, including Julian Wright ($7.1 million), Rasho Nesterovic ($2.4 million) and Alexis Ajinca ($2.3 million). Their cap holds push their total high enough that they don’t lose their exceptions, so they get the $7.6 million trade exception for Barbosa.

    Teams can renounce their free agents and/or exceptions, which removes their cap holds. So if the Raptors were to renounce all their free agents, they’d suddenly be below the cap — even when adding in the Barbosa trade exception — so the trade exception would go away as well.

  19. #199
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Larry Coon answered my Barbosa TPE question in his chat today!!!
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salary...rry-coon-32112
    Ahhhhh, cap holds!

    That was the missing piece to my thinking.

    Thanks, planetmars!

  20. #200
    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Watching Barbosa on the Pacers against LAC, has got me re-thinking that maybe we gave him away to cheaply. Should of got Indiana's first rounder or something better somewhere else. LB is a game-changer.

    I'm disappointed in BC. Looking more like loser Burke all the time.

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