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Thread: The art of 'hitting the ground running': What realistic piece would help HTGR? (39)

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    I dont think Harden is that unrealistic, the Raps have the pieces to trade for him. I disagree with the article where it says it will take multiple firsts to get harden. DD + 1st, i don't see how OKC doesn't listen to that offer...it's not like he is D Will or Melo

    It's a situation worth paying attention to for sure, because OKC has to move Harden or Ibaka at some point. Somebody is gonna get one of those players, why not the Raps

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'd be shocked if Harden was moved.

    The premise of this article is trade Harden for a great prospect before you have to pay Harden. Unfortunately, any draft pick is going to take time to develop. ...
    How long did it take Harden to develop? I really don't know. But I thought the premise of the piece was that OKC should put themselves in a position to continue doing what they demonstrably do well, which is draft under-rated talent that performs at a high level very quickly. If they pick correctly (according to the premise of the article) they don't have a long time to wait for the picks to develop.

    Interesting premise. And I don't see any of the teams mentioned having as high a pick (or at least the odds of getting as high a pick) as Toronto. Toronto also has some half-decent role players on moderate contracts and/or the ability to trade away next years pick (which has the possibility of being in the mid-teens or better...depends on your belief in their performance next year).

    I expect BC would explore this at least. Now, if TO gets pick 2 or 3, do they do a deal with OKC for Harden?

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    I think the Raptors have a good opportunity of "hitting the ground running" by simply doing nothing other then drafting one of MKG or Barnes (prefer MKG) and bringing over JV. Those two added to the puzzle and a healthy Dre, Jose and Bayless is enough of a push to get us into the 7th-9th discussion IMO. I'd like to see BC target OJ Mayo in free agency as his strengths are our other wings weaknesses in 3 point shooting, creating his own shot and play making skills. The Grizzlies are in a tough situation with Gay, Z-Bo, Conley and Gasol all under lucrative deals and they have tried to move Mayo to the Pacers a few times so I'm not sure you have to overpay too much. Re up Gray for the Howard, Bynum and Bogut type match ups and a big body for JV to go up against in practice. try and resign Bayless to a reasonable deal and if it doesn't work extend the QO.

    PG: Jose, Balyess
    SG: Demar, Mayo, Forbes
    SF: MKG, JJ, Kleiza
    PF: Dre, Davis, Amir
    C: JV, Gray

    That is a solid 13 guys under contract and not bringing into account the 2 second rounds if you expect BC to use both. A 3rd string PG would be some nice insurance to have and easily available (Carter/Uzoh type). Lots of flexibility to upgrade the point with Jose's expiring, Davis or Amir.

    Not the most glamorous ideas but fairly realistic and would make us a playoff bound team IMO.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    How long did it take Harden to develop? I really don't know. But I thought the premise of the piece was that OKC should put themselves in a position to continue doing what they demonstrably do well, which is draft under-rated talent that performs at a high level very quickly. If they pick correctly (according to the premise of the article) they don't have a long time to wait for the picks to develop.

    Interesting premise. And I don't see any of the teams mentioned having as high a pick (or at least the odds of getting as high a pick) as Toronto. Toronto also has some half-decent role players on moderate contracts and/or the ability to trade away next years pick (which has the possibility of being in the mid-teens or better...depends on your belief in their performance next year).

    I expect BC would explore this at least. Now, if TO gets pick 2 or 3, do they do a deal with OKC for Harden?
    It took Harden a couple of seasons to become what he is now. With Westbrook and Durant entering their peak years, it doesn't seem sensible to me to start sending out pieces to think about competing down the road when they are already competing now.

    I just look at OKC and see a great team already. Why take away an important piece in the hopes of greatness when they are already approaching greatness.

    The difference in the past was their eye was towards the future and a great team. They are now already a great team. I don't understand taking a step back in the hope of becoming even better especially when it is not a sure thing.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    OKC is in win now.. they'll keep Harden until they can't anymore (due to his new contract) and at that point OKC management will either decide to keep him or do a sign and trade (he's restricted and so have the luxury of matching and/or doing a sign and trade). I see Harden as a more valuable piece moving forward for OKC than a guy like Westbrook who got the max.

    My guess is that OKC gives Harden a near max contract and then trades Westbrook for other pieces that will get them to that next level. OKC management seems to know what their doing.

    However if Harden was ever available, I hope Bryan does whatever he can to get him. He's going to be a top 10 talent in the league in a few years, in my opinion.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    harden is one of my favourite players. love watching him.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter The Coach's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It took Harden a couple of seasons to become what he is now. With Westbrook and Durant entering their peak years, it doesn't seem sensible to me to start sending out pieces to think about competing down the road when they are already competing now.

    I just look at OKC and see a great team already. Why take away an important piece in the hopes of greatness when they are already approaching greatness.

    The difference in the past was their eye was towards the future and a great team. They are now already a great team. I don't understand taking a step back in the hope of becoming even better especially when it is not a sure thing.
    First of all, thank-you mods for moving my post to this thread... I should have known there was already a thread open on this, especially since the thread titles were practically the same.

    Second, the point of this article is that OKC is going to be facing a challenge with the cap and will have to make some tough decisions regarding who stays and who goes. I don't know Harden, but could we have a Tracy McGrady situation on our hands? He has to be one of the most underrated players in the league because he plays in the shadows of Durant and Westbrook. It might be that OKC wants to keep him, but he might want his own spotlight... not sure Toronto offers that, but I can hope. Who knows, maybe OKC wins it all this year, Harden plays a big role in that and OKC management looks to sell high... Toronto's 1st and Demar (their new sixth man)? I don't know what it would take; however, I do see the writers thoughts about restocking the shelves and still keeping their current superstars.
    “Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.”
    ― John Wooden

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote The Coach wrote: View Post
    First of all, thank-you mods for moving my post to this thread... I should have known there was already a thread open on this, especially since the thread titles were practically the same.

    Second, the point of this article is that OKC is going to be facing a challenge with the cap and will have to make some tough decisions regarding who stays and who goes. I don't know Harden, but could we have a Tracy McGrady situation on our hands? He has to be one of the most underrated players in the league because he plays in the shadows of Durant and Westbrook. It might be that OKC wants to keep him, but he might want his own spotlight... not sure Toronto offers that, but I can hope. Who knows, maybe OKC wins it all this year, Harden plays a big role in that and OKC management looks to sell high... Toronto's 1st and Demar (their new sixth man)? I don't know what it would take; however, I do see the writers thoughts about restocking the shelves and still keeping their current superstars.

    The difference between T-Mac and Harden is there was no restricted free agency in the days of T-Mac. If McGrady had been offered a deal, the Raptors could have matched with restricted free agency.

    I can see the premise the writer is operating under but they don't need to worry about keeping their superstars. They already have them under contract for another 4 and 5 years, respectively. I think there is more risk of alienating those stars by rolling the dice and trading away a known (and great) commodity now on the hope of a draft pick working out later..... what if the pick becomes nothing near Harden?

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Starter The Coach's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The difference between T-Mac and Harden is there was no restricted free agency in the days of T-Mac. If McGrady had been offered a deal, the Raptors could have matched with restricted free agency.

    I can see the premise the writer is operating under but they don't need to worry about keeping their superstars. They already have them under contract for another 4 and 5 years, respectively. I think there is more risk of alienating those stars by rolling the dice and trading away a known (and great) commodity now on the hope of a draft pick working out later..... what if the pick becomes nothing near Harden?
    Would OKC have the money to match other teams for Ibaka and Harden? What is the minimum years they can sign a RFA? If Harden wasn't happy, would OKC even want to keep him?
    “Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.”
    ― John Wooden

  10. #50
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote The Coach wrote: View Post
    Would OKC have the money to match other teams for Ibaka and Harden? What is the minimum years they can sign a RFA? If Harden wasn't happy, would OKC even want to keep him?
    Who knows for sure? Answers to any of those questions would be speculation.

    Opportunities to win in sports are hardly guaranteed. The Thunder are one of the best teams right now. Why would they mess with that when they definitely have one full season and possibly two full seasons to take any action?

    The issue with Ibaka and Harden is not the salary cap. OKC has their Bird Rights and can resign them regardless of the cap. The issue is the luxury tax which becomes more punitive starting in the 2013-14 season. Who knows what happens to the NBA salary cap and luxury tax thresholds after 2012-13? They werefrozen for 2 years in the new CBA. Depending on revenues, salary cap and luxury tax figures could go up - or they could go down.

    The decisions made, forward thinking, in the past were made to become good and eventually great.
    The decisions now, forward thinking, are made to remain good and possibly great.
    In my opinion, that creates a big difference in how the decision making process works going forward.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Starter The Coach's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Who knows for sure? Answers to any of those questions would be speculation.
    If I were the Thunder I would want to keep him as well and I realize that the chances of Toronto getting Harden are not high; however, the article highlighted some reasons (speculations) for why Harden could be moved and I see Toronto as a place with the pieces and motivation to be interested. Haven't watched him much this year and am interested to see how he looks against Toronto tonight.

    As for the T-Mac comparison, I was referring to the fact that McGrady wanted his own spotlight and didn't want to share with VC. I was speculating that Harden could be in a similar situation; however, in the new "Superheroes Unite" era, this may be null.
    “Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.”
    ― John Wooden

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Starter The Coach's Avatar
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    Hey Matt, I think I read somewhere that the Raps can only deal with non playoff teams and then with teams as they are eliminated from the playoffs. Is that correct? I know that this would not impact draft night but wonder what type of players are available or desirable from non playoff teams etc.
    How about players in the Euroleagues? Just thinking about Kirilenko and his "MVP" year. What's his contract situation? I believe I remember hearing BryCo had some interest before... what do you guys think (he is 31 yrs old)?
    “Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.”
    ― John Wooden

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote The Coach wrote: View Post
    How about players in the Euroleagues? Just thinking about Kirilenko and his "MVP" year. What's his contract situation? I believe I remember hearing BryCo had some interest before... what do you guys think (he is 31 yrs old)?
    I think we can do better than Kirilenko personally. He's going to be asking for a semi-big contract (probably in the $9M range/year), and for a guy who's often injured and is already 31 that might be too high of an asking price. If we can get him for about $6 or $7M (ie, Wilson Chandler money) I would consider it.

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I think we can do better than Kirilenko personally. He's going to be asking for a semi-big contract (probably in the $9M range/year), and for a guy who's often injured and is already 31 that might be too high of an asking price. If we can get him for about $6 or $7M (ie, Wilson Chandler money) I would consider it.
    depending on the draft and of course asking price, i think your 6-7 is very fair for him, i wouldn't mind kirilenko. not my first choice but wouldn't mind the signing. it would make the 3 spot a definite defensive strength for us. and give jj some more time to grow and a player to mold his offense after.

    i am sure that what colangelo and casey want is to be perennial drafters in the 20-30 range, where you pick a player that fits your system. then you just get into the habbit of playing with the same people and the same way every game and every year like the spurs.

    i think that in the 20-30 range the best scouts make the best choices. everyone can see who the top 3 players are every year but to constantly find good rotation players that can sometimes pan out into players like dj blair is the sign of a successful program.

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