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The art of 'hitting the ground running': What realistic piece would help HTGR? (39)

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  • #31
    Chandler has only JUST talked to the Nuggets. There is still some chance Raptors could get him now they could offer him more aswell

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    • #32
      scratch that just read an article from an hour ago saying he's signing long term with denver.

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      • #33
        I'm ok with the kool aid. I think it takes into account some basic truths. If a free agent could take $8 million from us or $8 million from another "big market" team, they tend to go to that other team. So having this money after july1st, when everyone comes to the table, is only so helpful. The other truth is that belts are tighter these days and it seems like there is more of a trend of good players being paid like great players that other teams might want to unload. You don't have to look too far back to see teams that have firesales to clear room for free agency. That's the sub-market that the raps can hopefully exploit. Nobody here thinks we're going to get deron williams but other teams think they will and they're going to have to make some room.
        Btw, do you want to merge my thread from yesterday with this one? Lots of overlap. Let's hope this plan comes together

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        • #34
          tucas wrote: View Post
          Chandler has only JUST talked to the Nuggets. There is still some chance Raptors could get him now they could offer him more aswell
          The only team that Chandler can sign with after March 1st is Denver regardless of Toronto salary cap situation.

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          • #35
            Didn't the grizzlies just trade Sam young simply to avoid tax? It will get worse moving forward with Gasol Randolph and Gay and the amount they will have to shell out for Mayo who they love again. Perhaps they make Mayo their focus wing, cheaper and Matt gets his man crush RGay in a lopsided salary trade, and if we get Beal in the draft.......

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            • #36
              What comes to mind when I read the title:


              There's your thread theme song.

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              • #37
                Apollo wrote: View Post

                There's your thread theme song.
                Works for me!

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                • #38
                  Alex B.
                  Why weren’t the Raptors included in your “NBA’s best salary cap teams” article on ESPN?

                  Larry Coon
                  They led my “And the rest…” group because there is a LOT of cap room to go around, and I didn’t see them pushing ahead of other teams to sign some of the big name free agents. I had the Nuggets and Kings in the same situation.

                  http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salary...rry-coon-32112
                  Something else to consider.

                  In my opinion this gives even more importance to the Barbosa trade and the possibility of having little cap space this summer should the Raptors make some trades.

                  They may very well hit free agency with just their exceptions. Given the year and the players available who are actually unrestricted in addition to Colangelo's free agency history, that may not be a bad thing.

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                  • #39
                    "Hitting the ground running"

                    The Long-Term Future Of The Thunder
                    By: Jonathan Tjarks
                    Apr 06, 2012 12:41 PM EDT


                    With the development of Serge Ibaka and James Harden to go along with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook, the Oklahoma City Thunder have become one of the best teams in the NBA. The bad news? They’re not going to be able to pay all of them.

                    Durant and Westbrook have already received maximum contract extensions, and over the next two years, Harden and Ibaka will be up for lucrative new deals as well.

                    Harden, at only 22 years old, is an athletic 6’5, 220 five-tool shooting guard with a 6’10 wingspan. There are no holes in his game: he can create his own shot (shooting 49% from the floor), shoot from the perimeter (shooting 39% from beyond the arc), create shots for others (averaging 4.3 assists and 2.5 turnovers), defend both backcourt positions and rebound (4.6 per game).

                    With both Dwyane Wade and Kobe Bryant over 30, Harden is the future of the shooting guard position. The only comparable young player is Eric Gordon, but he’s missed nearly the entire season with a knee injury. When Harden is a restricted free agent at the end of next season, there could be a number of attractive young teams (the Cleveland Cavaliers, Portland Trail Blazers, Houston Rockets, Washington Wizards) with the cap room to offer him a max contract.

                    Ibaka, at only 22 years old, is an athletic 6’10, 235 power forward with a 7’4 wingspan who combines two valuable skills: elite shot-blocking and the ability to knock down a mid-range jumper. There are very few 6’10+ big men with the athletic ability to protect an NBA rim; there are even fewer who aren’t a liability offensively.

                    To see how attractive he will be in free agency, all you have to do is look at what centers were getting last off-season: Nene ($67 million), Tyson Chandler ($60 million), Marc Gasol ($55 million), DeAndre Jordan ($44 million). Kwame Brown even received a $7 million one-year deal!

                    The new CBA, with its punitive luxury tax penalties, is designed precisely to ensure that teams can’t afford to pay four players near maximum salaries. Leaving aside whether it’s actually in the best interests of the NBA to break up the Thunder, that leaves Oklahoma City with a tough decision: do they keep Harden or Ibaka?

                    While Harden has much better statistics, Ibaka is a more important piece. A championship team needs length and athleticism at the rim, and there’s no one else on their roster who can replace him.

                    Harden, in contrast, is a luxury. He’s the best passer of their three young perimeter stars, but having that many ball dominant players is a bit of a zero-sum game, as there’s only one basketball to go around. Giving him the ball at the end of games takes it out of the hands of Durant and Westbrook. The Thunder didn’t invest $170 million in their two All-NBA players to turn them into decoys.

                    However, Oklahoma City would still need to replace his bench production, as well as the below market price they currently receive it at. There’s only one place to do that: the top of the NBA Draft.

                    If Gerald Wallace is worth a first-round pick with only Top-3 protections, what would Harden fetch on the trading block? There could be two teams with multiple lottery picks in 2012: the Utah Jazz (who have the Golden State Warriors pick if it falls out of the Top-7) and the Portland Trail Blazers (who dealt Wallace to the Nets). Even in one of the most loaded drafts in a decade, as long as neither had the first overall pick, both would probably be willing to deal their two first-rounders, as well as a 2014 one, for Harden.

                    Such a deal would setup Oklahoma City well into the next decade.

                    Ever since the publication of “Moneyball”, every team in professional sports has been trying to exploit “market inefficiencies”. However, Michael Lewis’ book, while extremely entertaining, buried the lead: Oakland was able to field a great with a low payroll because they had a bumper crop of young All-Stars making relative peanuts. In professional sports, the greatest market inefficiency is, and will always be, the ability to accurately scout and develop talent.

                    Over the last few years, the Oklahoma City front office has proven they are well ahead of the curve in terms of drafting philosophy. Anyone could have picked Durant, but Westbrook (No. 4 in 2008), Harden (No. 3 in 2009) and Ibaka (No. 24 in 2009) weren’t no brainers at the time. Even their misses -- Jeff Green (No. 5 in 2007), Byron Mullens (No. 24 in 2008) and Cole Aldrich (No. 11 in 2010) -- could still develop into usable 6’9+ players. In an industry where Jared Sullinger is considered a lottery pick, there are plenty of inefficiencies left to exploit.

                    More intriguingly, there is a bumper crop of young shooting guards in the 2012 draft, at least four of them with All-Star ceilings: Terrence Ross (Washington), Jeremy Lamb (UConn), Bradley Beal (Florida) and Dion Waiters (Syracuse). With a top shooting guard guaranteed to fall, the Thunder could use their other lottery pick to gamble on an extremely talented 6’11+ project like Andre Drummond (UConn) or Perry Jones III (Baylor).

                    No one is going to be perfect in the draft, but the Thunder have had a much higher success rate than most of the league. Why not give themselves as many chances as possible to use their competitive advantage?

                    Dealing Harden would lower their chances of winning a championship in 2013, but it could open up a much larger title window. Let’s say they hit on one of the two picks they could acquire in 2012. In four years, they could spin this cycle forward again, flipping elite young talent looking for a payday into more elite young talent on cost-controlled salaries.

                    Oklahoma City has one of the NBA’s most forward-thinking front offices. If they leverage Harden’s contract situation correctly, they could get so far ahead of the rest of the league their competition will never be able to catch up.



                    Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/article...#ixzz1rMfBF0KW
                    I brought this up in a different thread; however, thought this article could lead into a different discussion.

                    What realistic piece would be best to "hit the ground running" next year?

                    Harden is on the top of my list. Is he worth our first round pick? Would it take more?
                    “Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.”
                    ― John Wooden

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                    • #40
                      I'd be shocked if Harden was moved.

                      The premise of this article is trade Harden for a great prospect before you have to pay Harden. Unfortunately, any draft pick is going to take time to develop. By the time he does, it will be time to pay him. That doesn't make sense, in my opinion. It is certainly not going to get the Thunder any farther ahead than what they get from Harden, again, in my opinion.


                      So keeping with what you asked, I don't see Harden as being realistic.

                      As for what piece would be realistic, I like Wesley Matthews. No where near the talent Harden is but a very good 3 and D player which is what Casey said he is looking for (25-28, shooter, defenders, experience).
                      Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Apr 7, 2012, 11:27 AM.

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                      • #41
                        I dont think Harden is that unrealistic, the Raps have the pieces to trade for him. I disagree with the article where it says it will take multiple firsts to get harden. DD + 1st, i don't see how OKC doesn't listen to that offer...it's not like he is D Will or Melo

                        It's a situation worth paying attention to for sure, because OKC has to move Harden or Ibaka at some point. Somebody is gonna get one of those players, why not the Raps

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                        • #42
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          I'd be shocked if Harden was moved.

                          The premise of this article is trade Harden for a great prospect before you have to pay Harden. Unfortunately, any draft pick is going to take time to develop. ...
                          How long did it take Harden to develop? I really don't know. But I thought the premise of the piece was that OKC should put themselves in a position to continue doing what they demonstrably do well, which is draft under-rated talent that performs at a high level very quickly. If they pick correctly (according to the premise of the article) they don't have a long time to wait for the picks to develop.

                          Interesting premise. And I don't see any of the teams mentioned having as high a pick (or at least the odds of getting as high a pick) as Toronto. Toronto also has some half-decent role players on moderate contracts and/or the ability to trade away next years pick (which has the possibility of being in the mid-teens or better...depends on your belief in their performance next year).

                          I expect BC would explore this at least. Now, if TO gets pick 2 or 3, do they do a deal with OKC for Harden?

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                          • #43
                            I think the Raptors have a good opportunity of "hitting the ground running" by simply doing nothing other then drafting one of MKG or Barnes (prefer MKG) and bringing over JV. Those two added to the puzzle and a healthy Dre, Jose and Bayless is enough of a push to get us into the 7th-9th discussion IMO. I'd like to see BC target OJ Mayo in free agency as his strengths are our other wings weaknesses in 3 point shooting, creating his own shot and play making skills. The Grizzlies are in a tough situation with Gay, Z-Bo, Conley and Gasol all under lucrative deals and they have tried to move Mayo to the Pacers a few times so I'm not sure you have to overpay too much. Re up Gray for the Howard, Bynum and Bogut type match ups and a big body for JV to go up against in practice. try and resign Bayless to a reasonable deal and if it doesn't work extend the QO.

                            PG: Jose, Balyess
                            SG: Demar, Mayo, Forbes
                            SF: MKG, JJ, Kleiza
                            PF: Dre, Davis, Amir
                            C: JV, Gray

                            That is a solid 13 guys under contract and not bringing into account the 2 second rounds if you expect BC to use both. A 3rd string PG would be some nice insurance to have and easily available (Carter/Uzoh type). Lots of flexibility to upgrade the point with Jose's expiring, Davis or Amir.

                            Not the most glamorous ideas but fairly realistic and would make us a playoff bound team IMO.

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                            • #44
                              Puffer wrote: View Post
                              How long did it take Harden to develop? I really don't know. But I thought the premise of the piece was that OKC should put themselves in a position to continue doing what they demonstrably do well, which is draft under-rated talent that performs at a high level very quickly. If they pick correctly (according to the premise of the article) they don't have a long time to wait for the picks to develop.

                              Interesting premise. And I don't see any of the teams mentioned having as high a pick (or at least the odds of getting as high a pick) as Toronto. Toronto also has some half-decent role players on moderate contracts and/or the ability to trade away next years pick (which has the possibility of being in the mid-teens or better...depends on your belief in their performance next year).

                              I expect BC would explore this at least. Now, if TO gets pick 2 or 3, do they do a deal with OKC for Harden?
                              It took Harden a couple of seasons to become what he is now. With Westbrook and Durant entering their peak years, it doesn't seem sensible to me to start sending out pieces to think about competing down the road when they are already competing now.

                              I just look at OKC and see a great team already. Why take away an important piece in the hopes of greatness when they are already approaching greatness.

                              The difference in the past was their eye was towards the future and a great team. They are now already a great team. I don't understand taking a step back in the hope of becoming even better especially when it is not a sure thing.

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                              • #45
                                OKC is in win now.. they'll keep Harden until they can't anymore (due to his new contract) and at that point OKC management will either decide to keep him or do a sign and trade (he's restricted and so have the luxury of matching and/or doing a sign and trade). I see Harden as a more valuable piece moving forward for OKC than a guy like Westbrook who got the max.

                                My guess is that OKC gives Harden a near max contract and then trades Westbrook for other pieces that will get them to that next level. OKC management seems to know what their doing.

                                However if Harden was ever available, I hope Bryan does whatever he can to get him. He's going to be a top 10 talent in the league in a few years, in my opinion.

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