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Thread: The most damning piece of "It is #tradeBargnani's fault afterall" yet!

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default The most damning piece of "It is #tradeBargnani's fault afterall" yet!

    I hope no GM in the league checks SportsNet for views.... although Matt Moore tweeted this so they all might do a one time click. I think this is very much worth the read.

    Here is the evidence:

    1. His numbers are down across the board this season.

    2. He has a negative on/off court rating.
    3. What if we adjust for the strength of opposing lineups and the players Bargnani is playing with?

    4. Kyle Lowry was out for many of those games as well. Shouldn't he share the blame?


    None of the above turn out in Bargnani's favour.


    Ugh. The pain.



    (p.s. Great work, Liston!)
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    I think pinning all the blame for the bad start to the season on a single player is asinine. All of these so-called facts are a classic case of extrapolating "correlation" into "causation". I agree that everything here correlates with Bargs' absence, but none of this points to Bargs' absence being the cause of the improvement.

    Just because "A AND B" doesn't not mean "A=B". Doesn't work.

    I mention this, not because I am an ardent Bargs fan, but because I am not so quick to let the rest of the team off so easy. This is a team sport, and equitable accountability should be demanded by everyone, including the fans.

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    The positive here is that we all know that the Raptors can thrive without AB. I wish him the best but not a speedy recovery.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote c_bcm wrote: View Post
    I think pinning all the blame for the bad start to the season on a single player is asinine. All of these so-called facts are a classic case of extrapolating "correlation" into "causation". I agree that everything here correlates with Bargs' absence, but none of this points to Bargs' absence being the cause of the improvement.

    Just because "A AND B" doesn't not mean "A=B". Doesn't work.

    I mention this, not because I am an ardent Bargs fan, but because I am not so quick to let the rest of the team off so easy. This is a team sport, and equitable accountability should be demanded by everyone, including the fans.
    The title was definitely meant tongue-in-cheek. I honestly feel the biggest reason for the turnaround is Casey.

    I agree with your sentiments.

    However, it is pretty the clear the Raps are a better team without Bargnani. I hope both have an amicable and speedy split. I believe both are going to be better off without the other.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Default

    I think pinning all the blame for the bad start to the season on a single player is asinine. All of these so-called facts are a classic case of extrapolating "correlation" into "causation". I agree that everything here correlates with Bargs' absence, but none of this points to Bargs' absence being the cause of the improvement.

    Just because "A AND B" doesn't not mean "A=B". Doesn't work.

    I mention this, not because I am an ardent Bargs fan, but because I am not so quick to let the rest of the team off so easy. This is a team sport, and equitable accountability should be demanded by everyone, including the fans.
    I agree that the blame really shouldn't be Bargnani's. It should be on multiple levels of his organization.

    Bargnani doesn't dictate his pay, his role, his minutes and the team building around him. He simply agreed to what the team was offering him.

    What we've seen is the same player for 6+ years now, with only a short lived up tick to start last year. Why this organization felt he was a franchise player, worth a large long term contract, that they should play him "come hell and high water" etc. is simply ridiculous to me.

    But what has been evident, yet again, is that his play can have a negative impact on the team. That he destroys a defense. That the teams effort level jumps significantly when they aren't playing 1 on 5 on offense and 4 on 5 on defense.

    What Bargnani does (or more specifically doesn't do) is a problem, but its not his fault this team thought it was a good thing.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Rookie robert parrish 00's Avatar
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    Default Effort

    True the raps are paying him outrageous money and he doesn't control that. But what he does control is his effort and work ethic. He didn't spend the summer hitting the gym and it is obvious. He doesn't care to be great and utilize his talent, rather uses his talent as an excuse to be lazy. It is something to fall back on.

    I would love for him to perform on offence and defence, and be our franchise player. But right now he is nothing more than a 7 ft chucker.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Not pinning on one guy. C'mon man, it's been 7 years. Fine, don't pin it on him - let's just move on.
    ďThe saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.Ē - Martin Luther King

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    You can't pin losses on ONE guy, it's a team sport, but he definitely has a negative impact on the court. Results overall compared to impact on a result is different.

    Andrea Bargnani does not care, does not rebound, does not pass the ball, does not show emotion, does not express the will to win, does not have the heart to lead a team, hell, he doesn't have the mindset to ever close his damn mouth! I mean, goddamn people! It's always open, but nothing ever comes out but "Primo Pasta & Sauce."

    The jury has spoken. Bargnani is a negative impact to this organization, and he needs to go. If he becomes a perennial all-star on the team he boards on next, good for him, he just won't do it a Raptor.

    P.S, word to Bryan Colangelo, 13 GAMES IS NOT A SAMPLE SIZE OF GREATNESS. I mean, look at Jeremy Lin! Oops, went too far on that one.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    You can't pin losses on ONE guy, it's a team sport, but he definitely has a negative impact on the court. Results overall compared to impact on a result is different.

    Andrea Bargnani does not care, does not rebound, does not pass the ball, does not show emotion, does not express the will to win, does not have the heart to lead a team, hell, he doesn't have the mindset to ever close his damn mouth! I mean, goddamn people! It's always open, but nothing ever comes out but "Primo Pasta & Sauce."

    The jury has spoken. Bargnani is a negative impact to this organization, and he needs to go. If he becomes a perennial all-star on the team he boards on next, good for him, he just won't do it a Raptor.

    P.S, word to Bryan Colangelo, 13 GAMES IS NOT A SAMPLE SIZE OF GREATNESS. I mean, look at Jeremy Lin! Oops, went too far on that one.
    You mean, "Primo pasta and soze".
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote c_bcm wrote: View Post
    I think pinning all the blame for the bad start to the season on a single player is asinine. All of these so-called facts are a classic case of extrapolating "correlation" into "causation". I agree that everything here correlates with Bargs' absence, but none of this points to Bargs' absence being the cause of the improvement.

    Just because "A AND B" doesn't not mean "A=B". Doesn't work.
    +1

    Many people on these boards want to lynch Bargnani and Liston is just one who has a larger audience.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I don't think its as crazy as people think. Playing with half a big man at PF is going to hurt. We are not good enough in other positions to do it.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    At best it was a wash when he was hitting his 3's, this season with all his stats going south, there is no offensive positivity for having him in the lineup. You just lose rebounds, defense and there is no positive bonus on the offensive end.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote c_bcm wrote: View Post
    Just because "A AND B" doesn't not mean "A=B". Doesn't work.
    I think after all these years, every Raptors fan knows that 'AB doesn't work'

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I think after all these years, every Raptors fan knows that 'AB doesn't work'
    LOL. Can't argue with that.

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