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Thread: Waiting until 2013?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Now is the time. They won't have more flexibility than this summer.
    +1

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote chrischris wrote: View Post
    I bet that if Sportsnet showed a Jays preseason game right now...it would outview the Raptors playing in the same timeslot against any team in the league...even Miami or LAL. I dont want to hijack the thread so thats it for me on mlb

    It comes down to the Raps franchise not being able to afford another season of waiting. Especially Colangelo. Even though he is arguably one of the best GM's out there...I doubt he is resigned if things dont turn around by the midpoint of next season
    Chris, if they were worried about waiting they wouldn't have drafted a guy who wasn't even playing in the NBA this year. I've been waiting for 5+ years and I was pissed when we picked JV (due to the management's blatant disregard for ticket holders), but at this point I'm pretty numb to the whole thing. What's another year anyway. Go Not-Heat!
    your pal,
    ebrian

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Chris, if they were worried about waiting they wouldn't have drafted a guy who wasn't even playing in the NBA this year. I've been waiting for 5+ years and I was pissed when we picked JV (due to the management's blatant disregard for ticket holders), but at this point I'm pretty numb to the whole thing. What's another year anyway. Go Not-Heat!
    Out of curiosity, are you still pissed with JV's selection given his performance last summer, his growth this season versus overall higher competition than NCAA, the difficulty of finding a starting NBA C who is very good, and the overall underwhelming performance of Walker?

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Rookie chrischris's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Chris, if they were worried about waiting they wouldn't have drafted a guy who wasn't even playing in the NBA this year.
    Drafting JV was the right move regardless of the plan. It was pretty clear that no other rookie this year would have helped the team long or short term...with the current roster. It would have only hurt this years draft. It made too much sense to pick a guy that wouldnt play this year while he and the Raps improve their position for next season.

    This offseason is the best oppertunity the Raps have to get it right or else we're going to stay a mediocre team for a long time. When you look at the salary room, player contracts coming to an end (trade bait or salary relief) and potentially 2 top 5 picks...we'll be reaching a crossroad next season.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Out of curiosity, are you still pissed with JV's selection given his performance last summer, his growth this season versus overall higher competition than NCAA, the difficulty of finding a starting NBA C who is very good, and the overall underwhelming performance of Walker?
    My answer hasn't changed. I'm still waiting, likely going on 6 years now the way things are looking. Ask me again when JV has played in the NBA. Listen, if you don't have season tickets, you can't even talk to me about this.

    Are you serious about Kemba? Sure he's been shooting poorly, but everything else across the board he's been spectacular. Once Augustin leaves by way of free agency, and Kemba spends the offseason learning how to shoot again, he'll be blowing things up. His numbers, for a non-starter, are great for a rookie. Do you realize he's shooting 37% right now? Bump that up to even 40% and he's scoring 20 points per game as a starter. He's already better than Jerryd Bayless (although I realize that's not saying much).

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote chrischris wrote: View Post
    Drafting JV was the right move regardless of the plan. It was pretty clear that no other rookie this year would have helped the team long or short term...with the current roster. It would have only hurt this years draft. It made too much sense to pick a guy that wouldnt play this year while he and the Raps improve their position for next season.

    This offseason is the best oppertunity the Raps have to get it right or else we're going to stay a mediocre team for a long time. When you look at the salary room, player contracts coming to an end (trade bait or salary relief) and potentially 2 top 5 picks...we'll be reaching a crossroad next season.
    Chris, I'm not comparing JV with other players, my point is the management made a conscious decision to alienate paying fans by drafting a player they knew would not play this year. While it may pay off in the long run, the point I'm making is that it is obvious that the management DO NOT CARE about making fans wait. Another year is not going to make a huge difference, the Raptors are still and will continue to be the 3rd or 4th most popular team in Toronto. In the meantime while you wait, just cheer for anyone who isn't the Heat.

  7. #27
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Hit it this Summer, hit the ground running. Than grab the good extra player in 2013. Just my opinion.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    My answer hasn't changed. I'm still waiting, likely going on 6 years now the way things are looking. Ask me again when JV has played in the NBA. Listen, if you don't have season tickets, you can't even talk to me about this.

    Are you serious about Kemba? Sure he's been shooting poorly, but everything else across the board he's been spectacular. Once Augustin leaves by way of free agency, and Kemba spends the offseason learning how to shoot again, he'll be blowing things up. His numbers, for a non-starter, are great for a rookie. Do you realize he's shooting 37% right now? Bump that up to even 40% and he's scoring 20 points per game as a starter. He's already better than Jerryd Bayless (although I realize that's not saying much).
    OK. You are absolutely correct. A Raptor fan outside of the GTA has no right to an opinion in the company of a season ticket holder. I apologize.

    I also wasn't aware that 37% is a good shooting percentage - for anyone. Nor did I realize that 40% shooting to get 20 points was a good thing. Here I thought volume scorers were a liability - especially from a barely 6 foot point guard.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Mar 22nd, 2012 at 04:56 PM.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Rookie chrischris's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    OK. You are absolutely correct. A Raptor fan outside of the GTA has no right to an opinion in the company of a season ticket holder. I apologize.
    Seriously? I deleted what I wrote to ebrian's high horse season ticket comment. I hope this reply is sarcasm...or I think I'll type it out again

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Chris, I'm not comparing JV with other players, my point is the management made a conscious decision to alienate paying fans by drafting a player they knew would not play this year. While it may pay off in the long run, the point I'm making is that it is obvious that the management DO NOT CARE about making fans wait. Another year is not going to make a huge difference, the Raptors are still and will continue to be the 3rd or 4th most popular team in Toronto. In the meantime while you wait, just cheer for anyone who isn't the Heat.
    Isnt this approach a form of monetizing the decision making process for short term gratification? If the Walker was truly the more superior player in BC's opinion then no doubt he should have been the one chosen. As a matter of fact it might well have been Walker or Knight had Jonas not fallen to the Raps. I just cannot buy the thinking that the choice should not be made based on the most impactful long term view beneficial to the team's success. And I was for Walker's selection pre draft but fully understood we lucked out when JV was not selected by the Cavs. There is also a view that BC should be commended for choosing JV inspite of his contractual obligation in Europe which is precisely the reason (fan backlash) why he fell in the draft.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote chrischris wrote: View Post

    It comes down to the Raps franchise not being able to afford another season of waiting. Especially Colangelo. Even though he is arguably one of the best GM's out there...I doubt he is resigned if things dont turn around by the midpoint of next season
    This is exactly the same kind of thinking that got them where they are right now.

    What people like ebrian don't acknowledge is that the quick fix, while pleasing in the short-term, usually leads to mediocrity and awfulness long term (i.e. Your Toronto 2012 Raptors!). Yeah, go out and bring 2 vets and win a few more games. Get that 8th seed. Except, the next year, all those teams below you start to go past and you haven't the flexibility or the assets to get better. Then, before you know, you're back in 13th place again looking for the next quick fix.

    Building a winning team is a long term process. Anyone selling you the one-hour, quick-fix, instamatic, guaranteed by tomorrow solution is selling snake oil. The fact that most fans still don't seem to understand that is discouraging.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Chris, if they were worried about waiting they wouldn't have drafted a guy who wasn't even playing in the NBA this year. I've been waiting for 5+ years and I was pissed when we picked JV (due to the management's blatant disregard for ticket holders), but at this point I'm pretty numb to the whole thing. What's another year anyway. Go Not-Heat!
    So, they draft Kemba Walker and instead of going 20-46 they go 21-45. Except, now they have an undersized PG who can't shoot instead of a 7'0 centre who, by all accounts, has the chance to be a 10-year starter and an anchor NBA centre. If you can't process that, I don't know what to say.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I like Kemba but saying they should have picked him over big Val is some next level comedy

  14. #34
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I like Kemba but saying they should have picked him over big Val is some next level comedy
    +1

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    My answer hasn't changed. I'm still waiting, likely going on 6 years now the way things are looking. Ask me again when JV has played in the NBA. Listen, if you don't have season tickets, you can't even talk to me about this.

    Are you serious about Kemba? Sure he's been shooting poorly, but everything else across the board he's been spectacular. Once Augustin leaves by way of free agency, and Kemba spends the offseason learning how to shoot again, he'll be blowing things up. His numbers, for a non-starter, are great for a rookie. Do you realize he's shooting 37% right now? Bump that up to even 40% and he's scoring 20 points per game as a starter. He's already better than Jerryd Bayless (although I realize that's not saying much).
    if you think 40% is a good shooting percentage idk wtf you have been smokin bro. Putting up 20 points on the worst team in the league means nothing.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Rookie chrischris's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    This is exactly the same kind of thinking that got them where they are right now.

    What people like ebrian don't acknowledge is that the quick fix, while pleasing in the short-term, usually leads to mediocrity and awfulness long term (i.e. Your Toronto 2012 Raptors!). Yeah, go out and bring 2 vets and win a few more games. Get that 8th seed. Except, the next year, all those teams below you start to go past and you haven't the flexibility or the assets to get better. Then, before you know, you're back in 13th place again looking for the next quick fix.

    Building a winning team is a long term process. Anyone selling you the one-hour, quick-fix, instamatic, guaranteed by tomorrow solution is selling snake oil. The fact that most fans still don't seem to understand that is discouraging.
    I never said anything about a quick fix or shert term agenda. We need to keep this core young...however, we also need to make sure a winning environment is had next year. You dont just suck for 4 years, gather top picks and then all of a sudden win. You need to steadily move forward. We've had a losing team for 3 years now, acquiring picks along the way. It's time for the next step in the rebuild process. Especially with some of our current player contracts closing out soon, JV + top5 coming next year and Andrea becoming the player we want him to be. JV is used to winning. I dont think its a good idea to bring JV and the new pick into a losing environment.

    Regardless of what you think, if you want another losing season...youre out of luck. Ignoring FA signings and trades, this is a playoff team next year. Easily. Let's take advantage of it, while still focusing on the long term goals of the franchise
    Last edited by chrischris; Thu Mar 22nd, 2012 at 08:15 PM.

  17. #37
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    I totally agree in the fact that the rebuilding process is a long-term project. BUT, the thing is Toronto has talent and cap flexibility this coming Summer that it's hard to just let another developing season happen once again.

    B.C already noted and this has been said countless times, he would like to 'hit the ground running next season'.

    We have the ability to do so, Jonas, a highly touted rookie, who some analysts say if it wasn't for the buyout, he would've went much higher, even possibly 1st. 5-10 million dollars in cap flexibility, (correct me if I'm mistaken), another top 5 pick in one of the strongest drafts in the last couple years, and the continued development in a positive nature with this team, EVEN with such a lack of talent.

    Great coaching as well, IMO, I think B.C will be very loud this off-season, and this team will take a HUGE step.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I totally agree in the fact that the rebuilding process is a long-term project. BUT, the thing is Toronto has talent and cap flexibility this coming Summer that it's hard to just let another developing season happen once again.

    B.C already noted and this has been said countless times, he would like to 'hit the ground running next season'.

    We have the ability to do so, Jonas, a highly touted rookie, who some analysts say if it wasn't for the buyout, he would've went much higher, even possibly 1st. 5-10 million dollars in cap flexibility, (correct me if I'm mistaken), another top 5 pick in one of the strongest drafts in the last couple years, and the continued development in a positive nature with this team, EVEN with such a lack of talent.

    Great coaching as well, IMO, I think B.C will be very loud this off-season, and this team will take a HUGE step.

    +1
    colangelo and casey had the whole year. they know what they have and what they want. casey seems like the kind of guy that will watch every other teams games five times to make sure he scouts each position to fill out our roster. this offseason i think we will spend money but it wont be for home runs like the turk signing. it will be colangelo listening to casey and together choosing the best moves.

    only home run that could happen would be batum or nash i think.
    Last edited by Miekenstien; Fri Mar 23rd, 2012 at 02:16 AM.

  19. #39
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    +1
    colangelo and casey had tho whole year. they know what they have and what they want. casey seems like the kind of guy that will watch ever other teams games five times to make sure he scouts each position to fill out our roster. this offseason i think we will spend money but it wont be for home runs like the turk signing. it will be colangelo listening to casey and together choosing the best moves.

    only home run that could happen would be batum or nash i think.
    To be honest, I can even see a homerun, but it's not expected.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote chrischris wrote: View Post
    Seriously? I deleted what I wrote to ebrian's high horse season ticket comment. I hope this reply is sarcasm...or I think I'll type it out again
    It was indeed sarcasm. Sometimes it just isn't worth the effort.

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