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Observation from DeRozan sitting out

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  • #31
    Oh my god
    @sweatpantsjer

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    • #32
      why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
      If noone is untouchable then why are you singling demar out? What about our point guard? what if we had a point guard that could attack the pain regularly and put pressure on the defense? What if we had a power forward that could be a low post presence and rebound the ball consistently? What if we had a Small forward that could do it all? No One is perfect. I don't have a problem with picking the bpa but I don't like how you are singling him out. This is a bad team. Getting a sg that can do everything will not make this team better alone. And to be honest there aren't many sgs out there that can score, playmake, shoot and defend. Those type of sgs are a rarity now.
      +1

      D_Wade
      Kobe
      Harden
      Monta
      Manu
      Batum

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      • #33
        why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
        If noone is untouchable then why are you singling demar out? What about our point guard? what if we had a point guard that could attack the pain regularly and put pressure on the defense? What if we had a power forward that could be a low post presence and rebound the ball consistently? What if we had a Small forward that could do it all? No One is perfect. I don't have a problem with picking the bpa but I don't like how you are singling him out. This is a bad team. Getting a sg that can do everything will not make this team better alone. And to be honest there aren't many sgs out there that can score, playmake, shoot and defend. Those type of sgs are a rarity now.
        I agree no one is perfect - I don't recall suggesting otherwise.

        The Raptors need upgrades in all areas and starting positions - which is why no one is untouchable. They would have the best bench in the league if they weren't all starters. I've said/posted that numerous times for the last 2 seasons.

        Why am I singling out DeMar? Objectivity and constructive criticism perhaps? I don't know. But when I read A-Dubs write up on the homepage about the game (refer back to post #1 in this thread) it struck a cord with me. Considering DD had started 130 consecutive games, it certainly was a new topic of discussion - which is the point of the forum, no?

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        • #34
          draftedraptor wrote: View Post
          +1

          D_Wade
          Kobe
          Harden
          Monta
          Manu
          Batum
          You guys clearly aren't getting the spirit of the tread and/or are family relatives of DeMar. Here is the original post in case we've all gotten a little off topic or forgot what this was about to begin with:

          *This will be moved to DeChozan thread soon*

          I noticed this in the Chicago game as well, from A-Dub on the RR homepage:

          Yes, DeMar DeRozan has been on a nice scoring streak recently, but there was a fluidity to the offense that a more versatile player like Gary Forbes brings to the table that can`t be overlooked. With DeMar it feels like when he gets the ball, you get one of two results. He either tries to score if there`s an oppurtunity, or he dribbles the ball on the perimeter for a bit and then passes it away. With Forbes, he`s got a little point guard in him that every good guard should have. Let`s make this clear, Gary Forbes is not the talent DeMar DeRozan is. But, his style helps players around him better, and DeRozan right now doesn`t. Without DeRozan dominating the ball, you saw Forbes and Johnson hook up with the bigs for easy buckets. It was nice to see Johnson feed Ed Davis on the break for a powerful dunk. You think Demar, Jerryd Bayless or the departed Leandro Barbosa would have made that pass?

          http://raptorsrepublic.com/2012/03/2...g-but-the-win/

          I would also like to reiterate A-Dub's comment: Forbes is not the talent DeMar DeRozan is - and that is not the point. Given that DeRozan has started for nearly the last 2 seasons straight, one game without him is not a fair sample size. However, there is no denying having a SG with a handle and three point threat is a definite benefit to the team - even when that SG shot just 6-16 in the game.


          Colangelo has made references to DeMar about the need to add strength and get in to the weight room. Colangelo has also made reference to DeMar playing SF. Personally, I think this thinking is along the lines of the comments from A-Dub above - he lacks the skills needed to play SG.


          It should be noted that DeMar is just 22 - and not 23 until August. However, if Colangelo feels his skills are plateauing or he might not develop the skills or display the work habits the coaches and management are waiting for, his perceived value around the league might not be higher than this summer. This is especially true given the amount of negative press he has received as a disappointment this season. Also the Chicago broadcasting team referred to DeRozan as the best player on the Raptors. Personally, I don't agree with that but if that is the general consensus around the league, he could be a valuable trade piece.


          So something to consider: DeMar might not be part of the future at SG and, given the fluidity the Raptors played with versus Chicago, that might not be a bad thing.

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          • #35
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            I agree no one is perfect - I don't recall suggesting otherwise.

            The Raptors need upgrades in all areas and starting positions - which is why no one is untouchable. They would have the best bench in the league if they weren't all starters. I've said/posted that numerous times for the last 2 seasons.

            Why am I singling out DeMar? Objectivity and constructive criticism perhaps? I don't know. But when I read A-Dubs write up on the homepage about the game (refer back to post #1 in this thread) it struck a cord with me. Considering DD had started 130 consecutive games, it certainly was a new topic of discussion - which is the point of the forum, no?
            I'm all for getting a sg that can score, playmake, defend all that. But those type of sgs are rare and usually when an sg has those skillsets they are considered elite. But for now I am fine with moving forward with Demar. His defense has been better, he seems to be getting his midranger back and he gets to the line at a good clip. He is currently top 5 in fta for shooting guards. His 3 pointer has gotten better but is still a weakness so hopefully he continues to work on that. He'll never be a good playmaker but he has improved his passing and has developed a good drive and kick game. Can we do better? Yes but we can also do alot worse than Demar.

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            • #36
              Demar = Slasher, pull-up game, mid-range game, athletic with the NBA's best, post-game, underrated court vision, good open-court player, can create a shot without a dribble.

              Gary = Perimeter shooting, point guard abilities, good back-court rebounder, create a shot off the dribble.

              Demar is more of a scoring shooting guard, one like a Kobe, Tyreke Evans, Ray Allen, Monta Ellis, James Harden, Manu Ginobili, Jason Terry, Eric Gordon.

              Gary is more of an all-around shooting guard, Dwayne Wade, Joe Johnson, OJ Mayo, Andre Iguodala, Aaron Afflalo, Landry Fields.

              http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...guards/page/27

              Old article, but they rank Derozan at 11 in terms of top 35, IMO, this is a good place to put him, but his potential deserves to be a top 5.
              Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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              • #37
                Nobody is listening Matt.

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                • #38
                  Puffer wrote: View Post
                  Nobody is listening Matt.
                  Clearly.

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                  • #39
                    Demar is definitely a tradeable asset in the team. But letting him go would leave us empty there. It makes no sense to trade him for a draft pick unless it is top 5. Even if we draft beal there is no guarantee he will be any better than Demar. Might as well hold on to a cheap Demar who looks a legit starter and trade others like Calderon and Bargnani who we can afford to lose.

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                    • #40
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      Good points.

                      Remember, at no point have I said or implied Forbes was a better talent than DeRozan - he is not. I only wished to highlight the fluidity in the Chicago game with the different skill set at the SG spot.
                      Oh yeah, I was just pointing out how IMO, this team is a better team in terms of playing through your best players.

                      But the thing with Forbes is he's a back-up point guard in terms of skill-sets, so of course the fluidity in offense is much better, but you could ALSO say Calderon has been much more better in running the offense more smoothly?
                      You could see the individual differences, like I said, IMO, with Demar in the lineup, we're just a better team offensively in terms of being able to GET baskets, cause he just gives it to us.

                      Defensively? Forbes has mental lapses. ALOT. And Demar just straight up, is an average defender at best. Defensively I don't see much difference, but Derozan and Forbes will get better over time with Casey.
                      Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                      • #41
                        You're basing everything on one 12 minute quarter. It went downhill after that. There will always be times when the offense will look fluid and can do no wrong. The thing is can the offense be fluid consistently from game to game and that just hasn't been the case even with Forbes' "skillsets"
                        Last edited by why_you_mad_tho; Mon Mar 26, 2012, 10:17 PM.

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                        • #42
                          why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
                          You're basing everything on one 12 minute quarter. It went downhill after that. There will always be times when the offense will look fluid and can do no wrong. The thing is can the offense be fluid consistently from game to game and that just hasn't been the case even with Forbes' "skillsets"
                          What i am basing this on is clearly laid out in the initial post.

                          Objectivity. Please.

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                          • #43
                            why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
                            You're basing everything on one 12 minute quarter. It went downhill after that. There will always be times when the offense will look fluid and can do no wrong. The thing is can the offense be fluid consistently from game to game and that just hasn't been the case even with Forbes' "skillsets"
                            There was nothing said about only one quarter. He was talking generality in terms of the offense in all.
                            Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                            • #44
                              draftedraptor wrote: View Post
                              Demar is definitely a tradeable asset in the team. But letting him go would leave us empty there. It makes no sense to trade him for a draft pick unless it is top 5. Even if we draft beal there is no guarantee he will be any better than Demar. Might as well hold on to a cheap Demar who looks a legit starter and trade others like Calderon and Bargnani who we can afford to lose.
                              Something I have learned in life - and it relates to more than just basketball:

                              No one is irreplaceable. If someone leaves, someone else will be there to step in.


                              If you read my initial post (is there an echo in here?) you'll see I discussed the idea of DD playing the SF. I am not attempting to move DeMar for the sake of moving him nor am I looking to trade him for a draft pick.


                              Objectivity. Please.

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                              • #45
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Something I have learned in life - and it relates to more than just basketball:

                                No one is irreplaceable. If someone leaves, someone else will be there to step in.


                                If you read my initial post (is there an echo in here?) you'll see I discussed the idea of DD playing the SF. I am not attempting to move DeMar for the sake of moving him nor am I looking to trade him for a draft pick.


                                Objectivity. Please.
                                DD would be awesome offensively at the three, but would get sat on by guys like Lebron and Durant IMO.
                                Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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