Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 70

Thread: Observation from DeRozan sitting out

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,080
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
    Well what about today? Judging everything based on one game is stupid.
    That is a good point - one which I made in the original post as well.

    Sadly, while Forbes performance was just one game, it still doesn't change the 207 NBA games DeMar has played without a handle and consistent rebounding, passing, dribbling, and defending.

    No doubt he can score, and excuse me for being greedy, but I want more from a starting SG.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Seems like you are mad cause Demar isn't Kobe or Wade. It would be nice if he had handles, a consistent jumpshot and was a lockdown defender but all that would make him an elite player. If you can get a sg that can do all that then you do it obviously but right now sg is not a weak area of ours. Demar is still a good player. It just seems like you are singling him out for why we suck. I think we have other more pressing needs like a point guard and small forward.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    603
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is a good point - one which I made in the original post as well.

    Sadly, while Forbes performance was just one game, it still doesn't change the 207 NBA games DeMar has played without a handle and consistent rebounding, passing, dribbling, and defending.

    No doubt he can score, and excuse me for being greedy, but I want more from a starting SG.
    he can develop into someone who can do a little bit of everything listed. Essentially a 3 playing 2.

  4. #24
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
    Seems like you are mad cause Demar isn't Kobe or Wade. It would be nice if he had handles, a consistent jumpshot and was a lockdown defender but all that would make him an elite player. If you can get a sg that can do all that then you do it obviously but right now sg is not a weak area of ours. Demar is still a good player. It just seems like you are singling him out for why we suck. I think we have other more pressing needs like a point guard and small forward.
    +1. That's why as much as I like Beal's game, I don't think we really need him...

    I'm starting to fall towards Andrea being a good trading piece, because he seems like a guy that would be much better on a contending team, with the frontcourt of this year's draft being so strong, I would want to strengthen that front court. Even though we have a log jam at the 4, and 5 is locked up by Jonas followed by (I Hope) Aaron Gray, drafting a big man, trading Andrea doesn't seem too bad to me.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,080
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
    Seems like you are mad cause Demar isn't Kobe or Wade. It would be nice if he had handles, a consistent jumpshot and was a lockdown defender but all that would make him an elite player. If you can get a sg that can do all that then you do it obviously but right now sg is not a weak area of ours. Demar is still a good player. It just seems like you are singling him out for why we suck. I think we have other more pressing needs like a point guard and small forward.
    Wanting DeMar to be Kobe or Wade is hardly the cause or reason behind the post and I am hardly mad. Could you provide one example of anything I've typed that is not true or is irrational?

    Kobe and Wade are elite players with elite skills in many different areas of their game making them elite players. DeMar does not even have average skills in dribbling, passing, shooting, or defending - that is the problem and the reason behind my post. I could even live with him having being average in just 2 of those categories. Unfortunately, he is below in all 4. That is the problem.

    The whole point of the thread was to highlight the difference in the flow of the game with a different skill set occupying the starting SG role. This was touched on in another post today, but Raptor fans have become complacent in the composition of the roster. No one on this roster should be untouchable - no one.

    It is time to turn off the tunnel vision and separate emotion from reality.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Derozan sure scores alot for being below average in everything

  7. #27
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    But IMO, without Demar, it hurts Andrea's game, and possibly the rest of the team.. I said this in another thread, but Andrea and Demar play off one another, and Demar is the number one option since Andrea's struggles.

    Demar requires attention of the best perimeter defender, and it is EITHER Andrea or Demar to gain the best of the defensive attention, we've seen plenty of times this season where one or the other receives double-teams, and when one has the attention, time to take the aggro and be that second option. Individually. Sure, Gary Forbes can be in the scouting report, and be one to pay attention to defensively, but at this moment, Demar Derozan is the big name on the opposing scouting report. Demar just seems to have something that Forbes doesn't, I'm trying to figure it out, but it really seems like there is something there, don't know what it is though. But the defensive attention at the level of Demar's is not the attention Forbes would receive. IMO.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,080
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
    Derozan sure scores alot for being below average in everything
    And you have solidified my argument: he is one dimensional and that is the problem.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Wanting DeMar to be Kobe or Wade is hardly the cause or reason behind the post and I am hardly mad. Could you provide one example of anything I've typed that is not true or is irrational?

    Kobe and Wade are elite players with elite skills in many different areas of their game making them elite players. DeMar does not even have average skills in dribbling, passing, shooting, or defending - that is the problem and the reason behind my post. I could even live with him having being average in just 2 of those categories. Unfortunately, he is below in all 4. That is the problem.

    The whole point of the thread was to highlight the difference in the flow of the game with a different skill set occupying the starting SG role. This was touched on in another post today, but Raptor fans have become complacent in the composition of the roster. No one on this roster should be untouchable - no one.

    It is time to turn off the tunnel vision and separate emotion from reality.
    If noone is untouchable then why are you singling demar out? What about our point guard? what if we had a point guard that could attack the pain regularly and put pressure on the defense? What if we had a power forward that could be a low post presence and rebound the ball consistently? What if we had a Small forward that could do it all? No One is perfect. I don't have a problem with picking the bpa but I don't like how you are singling him out. This is a bad team. Getting a sg that can do everything will not make this team better alone. And to be honest there aren't many sgs out there that can score, playmake, shoot and defend. Those type of sgs are a rarity now.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,080
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    But IMO, without Demar, it hurts Andrea's game, and possibly the rest of the team.. I said this in another thread, but Andrea and Demar play off one another, and Demar is the number one option since Andrea's struggles.

    Demar requires attention of the best perimeter defender, and it is EITHER Andrea or Demar to gain the best of the defensive attention, we've seen plenty of times this season where one or the other receives double-teams, and when one has the attention, time to take the aggro and be that second option. Individually. Sure, Gary Forbes can be in the scouting report, and be one to pay attention to defensively, but at this moment, Demar Derozan is the big name on the opposing scouting report. Demar just seems to have something that Forbes doesn't, I'm trying to figure it out, but it really seems like there is something there, don't know what it is though. But the defensive attention at the level of Demar's is not the attention Forbes would receive. IMO.
    Good points.

    Remember, at no point have I said or implied Forbes was a better talent than DeRozan - he is not. I only wished to highlight the fluidity in the Chicago game with the different skill set at the SG spot.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,711
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Oh my god

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    603
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
    If noone is untouchable then why are you singling demar out? What about our point guard? what if we had a point guard that could attack the pain regularly and put pressure on the defense? What if we had a power forward that could be a low post presence and rebound the ball consistently? What if we had a Small forward that could do it all? No One is perfect. I don't have a problem with picking the bpa but I don't like how you are singling him out. This is a bad team. Getting a sg that can do everything will not make this team better alone. And to be honest there aren't many sgs out there that can score, playmake, shoot and defend. Those type of sgs are a rarity now.
    +1

    D_Wade
    Kobe
    Harden
    Monta
    Manu
    Batum

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,080
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
    If noone is untouchable then why are you singling demar out? What about our point guard? what if we had a point guard that could attack the pain regularly and put pressure on the defense? What if we had a power forward that could be a low post presence and rebound the ball consistently? What if we had a Small forward that could do it all? No One is perfect. I don't have a problem with picking the bpa but I don't like how you are singling him out. This is a bad team. Getting a sg that can do everything will not make this team better alone. And to be honest there aren't many sgs out there that can score, playmake, shoot and defend. Those type of sgs are a rarity now.
    I agree no one is perfect - I don't recall suggesting otherwise.

    The Raptors need upgrades in all areas and starting positions - which is why no one is untouchable. They would have the best bench in the league if they weren't all starters. I've said/posted that numerous times for the last 2 seasons.

    Why am I singling out DeMar? Objectivity and constructive criticism perhaps? I don't know. But when I read A-Dubs write up on the homepage about the game (refer back to post #1 in this thread) it struck a cord with me. Considering DD had started 130 consecutive games, it certainly was a new topic of discussion - which is the point of the forum, no?

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,080
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    +1

    D_Wade
    Kobe
    Harden
    Monta
    Manu
    Batum
    You guys clearly aren't getting the spirit of the tread and/or are family relatives of DeMar. Here is the original post in case we've all gotten a little off topic or forgot what this was about to begin with:

    *This will be moved to DeChozan thread soon*

    I noticed this in the Chicago game as well, from A-Dub on the RR homepage:

    Yes, DeMar DeRozan has been on a nice scoring streak recently, but there was a fluidity to the offense that a more versatile player like Gary Forbes brings to the table that can`t be overlooked. With DeMar it feels like when he gets the ball, you get one of two results. He either tries to score if there`s an oppurtunity, or he dribbles the ball on the perimeter for a bit and then passes it away. With Forbes, he`s got a little point guard in him that every good guard should have. Let`s make this clear, Gary Forbes is not the talent DeMar DeRozan is. But, his style helps players around him better, and DeRozan right now doesn`t. Without DeRozan dominating the ball, you saw Forbes and Johnson hook up with the bigs for easy buckets. It was nice to see Johnson feed Ed Davis on the break for a powerful dunk. You think Demar, Jerryd Bayless or the departed Leandro Barbosa would have made that pass?

    http://raptorsrepublic.com/2012/03/2...g-but-the-win/

    I would also like to reiterate A-Dub's comment: Forbes is not the talent DeMar DeRozan is - and that is not the point. Given that DeRozan has started for nearly the last 2 seasons straight, one game without him is not a fair sample size. However, there is no denying having a SG with a handle and three point threat is a definite benefit to the team - even when that SG shot just 6-16 in the game.


    Colangelo has made references to DeMar about the need to add strength and get in to the weight room. Colangelo has also made reference to DeMar playing SF. Personally, I think this thinking is along the lines of the comments from A-Dub above - he lacks the skills needed to play SG.


    It should be noted that DeMar is just 22 - and not 23 until August. However, if Colangelo feels his skills are plateauing or he might not develop the skills or display the work habits the coaches and management are waiting for, his perceived value around the league might not be higher than this summer. This is especially true given the amount of negative press he has received as a disappointment this season. Also the Chicago broadcasting team referred to DeRozan as the best player on the Raptors. Personally, I don't agree with that but if that is the general consensus around the league, he could be a valuable trade piece.


    So something to consider: DeMar might not be part of the future at SG and, given the fluidity the Raptors played with versus Chicago, that might not be a bad thing.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I agree no one is perfect - I don't recall suggesting otherwise.

    The Raptors need upgrades in all areas and starting positions - which is why no one is untouchable. They would have the best bench in the league if they weren't all starters. I've said/posted that numerous times for the last 2 seasons.

    Why am I singling out DeMar? Objectivity and constructive criticism perhaps? I don't know. But when I read A-Dubs write up on the homepage about the game (refer back to post #1 in this thread) it struck a cord with me. Considering DD had started 130 consecutive games, it certainly was a new topic of discussion - which is the point of the forum, no?
    I'm all for getting a sg that can score, playmake, defend all that. But those type of sgs are rare and usually when an sg has those skillsets they are considered elite. But for now I am fine with moving forward with Demar. His defense has been better, he seems to be getting his midranger back and he gets to the line at a good clip. He is currently top 5 in fta for shooting guards. His 3 pointer has gotten better but is still a weakness so hopefully he continues to work on that. He'll never be a good playmaker but he has improved his passing and has developed a good drive and kick game. Can we do better? Yes but we can also do alot worse than Demar.

  16. #36
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Demar = Slasher, pull-up game, mid-range game, athletic with the NBA's best, post-game, underrated court vision, good open-court player, can create a shot without a dribble.

    Gary = Perimeter shooting, point guard abilities, good back-court rebounder, create a shot off the dribble.

    Demar is more of a scoring shooting guard, one like a Kobe, Tyreke Evans, Ray Allen, Monta Ellis, James Harden, Manu Ginobili, Jason Terry, Eric Gordon.

    Gary is more of an all-around shooting guard, Dwayne Wade, Joe Johnson, OJ Mayo, Andre Iguodala, Aaron Afflalo, Landry Fields.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...guards/page/27

    Old article, but they rank Derozan at 11 in terms of top 35, IMO, this is a good place to put him, but his potential deserves to be a top 5.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,580
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Nobody is listening Matt.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,080
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Nobody is listening Matt.
    Clearly.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    603
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Demar is definitely a tradeable asset in the team. But letting him go would leave us empty there. It makes no sense to trade him for a draft pick unless it is top 5. Even if we draft beal there is no guarantee he will be any better than Demar. Might as well hold on to a cheap Demar who looks a legit starter and trade others like Calderon and Bargnani who we can afford to lose.

  20. #40
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Good points.

    Remember, at no point have I said or implied Forbes was a better talent than DeRozan - he is not. I only wished to highlight the fluidity in the Chicago game with the different skill set at the SG spot.
    Oh yeah, I was just pointing out how IMO, this team is a better team in terms of playing through your best players.

    But the thing with Forbes is he's a back-up point guard in terms of skill-sets, so of course the fluidity in offense is much better, but you could ALSO say Calderon has been much more better in running the offense more smoothly?
    You could see the individual differences, like I said, IMO, with Demar in the lineup, we're just a better team offensively in terms of being able to GET baskets, cause he just gives it to us.

    Defensively? Forbes has mental lapses. ALOT. And Demar just straight up, is an average defender at best. Defensively I don't see much difference, but Derozan and Forbes will get better over time with Casey.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •