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Thread: ESPN Insider - NBA Draft Blog Sneak Peek - Beal, Marshall, Barnes

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I would honestly take a shot on PJ3's potential over Barnes' stagnation.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Who is/will be better..............Robinson or Williams picked #2 last year.

    Only nba level scouts need reply

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Who is/will be better..............Robinson or Williams picked #2 last year.

    Only nba level scouts need reply
    I'm replying because it's an interesting question, not because I consider myself an NBA level scout

    I honestly thought that Williams would be a ROY candidate this year. I was VERY impressed with what he did in college last year. Then again, if he was force-fed starters minutes (like Kyrie), I'm sure thing would be different.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    PJ3 just needs a coach like dwane casey. But i only want to take a chance on him if he can play the 3 in the nba

  5. #25
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    Getting both MKG and Robinson would likely require a little help from the draft gods, plus Bargnani to go for a pick and some players and then we might have to ship out one of Amir, Ed or Derozan to move up, but if it were a possibility would you do it? Potential lineup

    Calderon/Bayless
    Forbes (Derozan if you kept him) scrub
    MKG/JJ/Kleiza
    Robinson/(ED)/(Amir)
    Jval/Gray/Magloire

    potentially FAs with our cap space - but this is a lineup that is all toughness and post play, not so much outside shooting, but it is a solid place to grow from.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Lots of hating on Barnes and I don't see why. Sure, you may like what you see from other players more, but why do people think that Barnes won't be a good player? Just looking for facts here, not opinions.

    It's a fact he has shooting range, it's a fact he has an NBA ready body, it's a fact he is has great b'ball IQ, fact that he's a good kid that plays within a team concept and is a willing passer (you're not going to see him pop his collar like a chump after every bucket he scores...this kid has maturity aka good locker room guy) . I'd also like to mention that it's a false statement to say Barnes lacks athletecism. He may not have the type of motor that MKG has, but I saw him finish atleast two aleey oop dunks in their last game and he did it with ease and was well above the rim. He may not have all world speed like LBJ, but neither does Pierce and he's heading to the HOF. I'd say there is a lot more good than bad.

    Again, just trying to see what other peoples perspective is based on.

  7. #27
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    Im not hating on Barnes, but Im not as high on him as I was last year. A lot of the things you said could be said about Bargs as well. Tons of talent, just never puts it together consistently. I don't want another Bargs is all.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Lots of hating on Barnes and I don't see why. Sure, you may like what you see from other players more, but why do people think that Barnes won't be a good player? Just looking for facts here, not opinions.

    It's a fact he has shooting range, it's a fact he has an NBA ready body, it's a fact he is has great b'ball IQ, fact that he's a good kid that plays within a team concept and is a willing passer (you're not going to see him pop his collar like a chump after every bucket he scores...this kid has maturity aka good locker room guy) . I'd also like to mention that it's a false statement to say Barnes lacks athletecism. He may not have the type of motor that MKG has, but I saw him finish atleast two aleey oop dunks in their last game and he did it with ease and was well above the rim. He may not have all world speed like LBJ, but neither does Pierce and he's heading to the HOF. I'd say there is a lot more good than bad.

    Again, just trying to see what other peoples perspective is based on.
    Barnes cannot create his own shot like Pierce and he is not near the defender Pierce is.

    I think those are his 2 biggest drawbacks.

    The other issue, in my opinion, is Barnes ceiling appears to be within reach. Right or wrong, a big part of the draft is the allure of the unknown, the untapped endless potential that so many fans and GM's fall in love with in the PJ3's and Andre Drummond's of the NBA world.

    Personally, give me Barnes over Drummond or PJ3 any day. However when it comes to Beal and MKG, I'd take both before Barnes.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    Chad Ford's Stock Watch
    Harrison Barnes, F, UNC

    At this stage in the game, it's pretty hard for a top prospect to really do much damage to his stock. These are high-pressure games and no NBA scout is going to base an overall performance evaluation on one or two contests. With that said, Barnes' struggles this weekend without Marshall on the floor were alarming. He struggled to create any offense for himself, was often left taking off-balance jump shots and, with the exception of a hot streak toward the end of the first half versus Kansas, didn't look anything like the special player we all believed he could become. Barnes ended up going 8-for-30 from the field and, for the most part, it looked worse than the box score suggests. We've known for a while that Barnes struggles as a ball handler and can be one-dimensional, but without Marshall setting him up in the spots he wants to get to, he just isn't able to do too much.

    With all of that said, a number of GMs still believe he can be a very effective weapon at the NBA level. His size and shooting ability for his position are good. Put him on the right team, with the right point guard, and don't ask him to be a superstar, and Barnes could still have a very effective NBA career. I don't think he's a franchise-changer, but if he continues to develop, Danny Granger or Luol Deng might be his upside. If he doesn't live up to his potential? Maybe he is the second coming of Martell Webster.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Barnes cannot create his own shot like Pierce and he is not near the defender Pierce is.

    I think those are his 2 biggest drawbacks.

    The other issue, in my opinion, is Barnes ceiling appears to be within reach. Right or wrong, a big part of the draft is the allure of the unknown, the untapped endless potential that so many fans and GM's fall in love with in the PJ3's and Andre Drummond's of the NBA world.

    Personally, give me Barnes over Drummond or PJ3 any day. However when it comes to Beal and MKG, I'd take both before Barnes.
    Interesting.

    We know that Barnes is a good shooter, so you have to think at the NBA level he'll be able to take advantage in a half court set when defences are spread out and playing man to man which they do the majority of the time. Sort of what everyone says about DeMar needing to improve his shooting to take advantage of his drive...except Barnes is already a good shooter. Keep in mind he's a rookie and will improve at all facets of the game. Also I'd have to say that he has good size and mobility to be a good defender. He's willing to be coached so he can learn to be a better defender, as by all accounts Barnes is a student of the game.

    He may not excel in the open court breaking a guy down of the dribble, but we know most of the time the game is played in half court sets and in the playoffs when the game slows down you need guys whom can score in a half court set.

    MKG has a great motor, can lock a guy down on D (and I'm not looking past how improtant that is), and brings some great intangibles but I'm not convinced he can be a legitimate scoring threat in the NBA. We know he currently is not a good shooter and I haven't seen him take guys off the dribble and get to the rim like like a Kobe or Wade. On the Raptors he will be a very good defender on a team that is currently struggling find consistent scoring options imo. Having said that I'd love to have him on the roster.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I agree with mediumcore. At the 6 or 7 Barnes is a steal. I think as he is right now he is a better player than DeMar. His not a bad defender either. 6'9 223 bls on the wing and his lights out and probably the clutchest player in the draft. Do we really not want this on are team?

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Interesting.

    We know that Barnes is a good shooter, so you have to think at the NBA level he'll be able to take advantage in a half court set when defences are spread out and playing man to man which they do the majority of the time. Sort of what everyone says about DeMar needing to improve his shooting to take advantage of his drive...except Barnes is already a good shooter. Keep in mind he's a rookie and will improve at all facets of the game. Also I'd have to say that he has good size and mobility to be a good defender. He's willing to be coached so he can learn to be a better defender, as by all accounts Barnes is a student of the game.

    He may not excel in the open court breaking a guy down of the dribble, but we know most of the time the game is played in half court sets and in the playoffs when the game slows down you need guys whom can score in a half court set.

    MKG has a great motor, can lock a guy down on D (and I'm not looking past how improtant that is), and brings some great intangibles but I'm not convinced he can be a legitimate scoring threat in the NBA. We know he currently is not a good shooter and I haven't seen him take guys off the dribble and get to the rim like like a Kobe or Wade. On the Raptors he will be a very good defender on a team that is currently struggling find consistent scoring options imo. Having said that I'd love to have him on the roster.
    Good points - especially on the defense-system comments.

    I hope I didn't make my comments sound as if I absolutely did not want Barnes. My personal big board is starting to take shape:

    1) Davis
    2) Beal
    3) MKG
    4) Barnes
    5) Please God deliver one of the previous 4.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Good points - especially on the defense-system comments.

    I hope I didn't make my comments sound as if I absolutely did not want Barnes. My personal big board is starting to take shape:

    1) Davis
    2) Beal
    3) MKG
    4) Barnes
    5) Please God deliver one of the previous 4.
    Not at all. I was just looking for information other than "Barnes = Barf" (kidding Ceez), as to why it seemed he was really far off some peoples radar.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's the fear of Barnes' one-dimensionality (I just made up a word) for me too. I have no doubt that he'll help whichever team he ends up with, but the Raptors need MORE help than what Barnes is capable of providing.

    Players like MKG or Beal seem to fill the void better.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  15. #35
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Yeah, it's the fear of Barnes' one-dimensionality (I just made up a word) for me too. I have no doubt that he'll help whichever team he ends up with, but the Raptors need MORE help than what Barnes is capable of providing.

    Players like MKG or Beal seem to fill the void better.
    I get the impression from sites like ESPN/CNNSI/TSN etc.. that MKG and Beal have both moved ahead of Barnes and will likely stay there until the combine and workouts. I now see the draft as a pretty unanimous #1, a #2-4 group (MKG, Beal and Robinson) and then big groups that fall into 'bigs', 'wings' and 'pg'. I think it's now time to start comparing Barnes to the likes of Lamb, Jones, PJ3 and Miller, instead of MKG and Beal. I wouldn't be surprised to see lots of uncertainty/surprises and potentially trades, once we get to the #5 pick.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I get the impression from sites like ESPN/CNNSI/TSN etc.. that MKG and Beal have both moved ahead of Barnes and will likely stay there until the combine and workouts. I now see the draft as a pretty unanimous #1, a #2-4 group (MKG, Beal and Robinson) and then big groups that fall into 'bigs', 'wings' and 'pg'. I think it's now time to start comparing Barnes to the likes of Lamb, Jones, PJ3 and Miller, instead of MKG and Beal. I wouldn't be surprised to see lots of uncertainty/surprises and potentially trades, once we get to the #5 pick.
    ESPN and DraftExpress are the two I put the most faith in. DraftExpress has Barnes at 7 and ESPN has him at 8.

    I agree with your thinking at number 5 - especially considering teams like Portland, Utah, and Houston could have 2 lottery picks.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    man if only Q.Miller didn't get injured. He'd easily be top 5 in the draft and we'd be perfect for him. He's got killer handles and elite athleticism

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Uh huh

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I still don't think he is or was an elite athelete

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I still don't think he is or was an elite athelete
    i think he was/is. Baylor's offense sucks ass so we won't know

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