Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 101

Thread: Ed Davis' Future in Toronto (Tim Chisolm)

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Markham, Ontario
    Posts
    2,850
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    There really is no time/space to "develop" Davis though. He's not going to get the minutes to learn through his mistakes. He's not afforded that luxury this season, so we can guarantee he'll have an even shorter leash next season (when we're actually competing for a playoff spot). And if we're not going to make a conscious effort to develop him, why bother keeping him around? He's better used as a trade asset to help make the team better next year.

    Having 2 front court rotation players learn how to play next year, doesn't sound promising (unless their names are Jonas and Anthony).
    I dont see a reason why he cant develop alongside JV, and the new draft pick coming, well, unless they draft Davis or another PF. Its not like he will be given heavy minutes, Bargnani will still be the starting PF and will play 35-40mins a game. Right now, Amir is eating into his minutes, and vice-versa. If they trade Amir, then Davis will be the first PF off the bench. IMO, he needs at least 20mins a game. At worst, he's a young version of Amir anyways.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,971
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Yes, but Amir is getting the minutes now because he's better than Ed.

    By keeping Ed, we're gambling/hoping that he gets better based on nothing more than a handful of encouraging games this season.

    But with Amir, you could definitely make the argument he's overpaid, but you know exactly what you're going to get from him, and he simply knows his role. I think we'd be hard-pressed to find a better backup PF who accepts his role and fits Casey's system.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,162
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Again, why trade him at all? You're paying him very little right now, and you're not going to get anything of value in return. If you want to just move one of the bigs because of the log gam of bigs just send Alabi packing and place Davis at the end of the bench. At the very least you have a much higher drafted player with much more potential at the end of the bench ready to sub in when required.

  4. #44
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,960
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think he functions much better as an asset that can be traded

  5. #45
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,960
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    3 - 4 million is a lot of money to pay your 12th man

  6. #46
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,286
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Again, why trade him at all? You're paying him very little right now, and you're not going to get anything of value in return. If you want to just move one of the bigs because of the log gam of bigs just send Alabi packing and place Davis at the end of the bench. At the very least you have a much higher drafted player with much more potential at the end of the bench ready to sub in when required.
    There's no point paying him to be a 3rd string PF at best, especially on a team where Kleiza and JJ are also capable of playing PF in smaller units.

    After the first few PF (ie: Davis, T-Rob, Sullinger, McAdoo), there's a pretty big drop in talent at the PF position. For a team that wants to get a big and isn't interested in all the hit-or-miss wings and tweeners likely available in the #10-20 spots in the draft, I could definitely see some interest in Ed Davis. Especially if BC were to sweeten the pot with one/both of the Raptors 2nd round picks or even a future 1st round pick. Unless a team in the lottery is dead-set on drafting Marshall, I think Ed Davis could quite easily be turned into Marshall. But what do I know, none of us truly knows what value any player has around the league.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Markham, Ontario
    Posts
    2,850
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Yes, but Amir is getting the minutes now because he's better than Ed.

    By keeping Ed, we're gambling/hoping that he gets better based on nothing more than a handful of encouraging games this season.

    But with Amir, you could definitely make the argument he's overpaid, but you know exactly what you're going to get from him, and he simply knows his role. I think we'd be hard-pressed to find a better backup PF who accepts his role and fits Casey's system.
    Well, yeah, NOW is the key word. But what i was implying was when Ed gets 20-25mins in a game, he produces the same stats as when Amir plays 20-25mins. So at worst, Ed would probably end up being an "Amir-type" player. And i say at worst because in his 2 years with the Raps, there hasnt been any regularity with how he's started those two seasons. And i dont think Amir is getting more minutes because he's better. He's averaging only 2 mins more than Ed, and i think its because theyve used Amir in the 5 spot.

    I dont think they will be gambling on Ed if they decide to keep him. They know what he can do, what he is capable of. All they need to figure out is how to make him consistently do those things, and from there, make him work harder to go to the next level. Last year he had 17/12 in dallas, 15/11 in minnesota, 13/15 and 21/11 in LA, and 22/13 in NY. He can be good if given minutes, but he needs to figure out how to do them on a consistent basis.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,162
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    3 - 4 million is a lot of money to pay your 12th man
    Not for one with potential to be a defensive specialist. Just taking a quick look at some of the comparables for bigs available in free agency this summer and there are guys like Aaron Gray and Ronaldo Balkman that are making less, but what you see is what you get with those guys. Ed has the potential to be much better than those guys and at the rookie scale I think it is worth holding onto him.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,971
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Not for one with potential to be a defensive specialist. Just taking a quick look at some of the comparables for bigs available in free agency this summer and there are guys like Aaron Gray and Ronaldo Balkman that are making less, but what you see is what you get with those guys. Ed has the potential to be much better than those guys and at the rookie scale I think it is worth holding onto him.
    I think the "12th man" part is where the expense is. It doesn't matter how good a player might be....spending $4million on a player who only sees the floor when everyone else is dead, is just poor roster (and salary cap) management.

    Either move him up in the rotation to get your money's worth, or trade him to address another need.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  10. #50
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,960
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I think the "12th man" part is where the expense is. It doesn't matter how good a player might be....spending $4million on a player who only sees the floor when everyone else is dead, is just poor roster (and salary cap) management.

    Either move him up in the rotation to get your money's worth, or trade him to address another need.
    +1

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,162
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    There's no point paying him to be a 3rd string PF at best, especially on a team where Kleiza and JJ are also capable of playing PF in smaller units.

    After the first few PF (ie: Davis, T-Rob, Sullinger, McAdoo), there's a pretty big drop in talent at the PF position. For a team that wants to get a big and isn't interested in all the hit-or-miss wings and tweeners likely available in the #10-20 spots in the draft, I could definitely see some interest in Ed Davis. Especially if BC were to sweeten the pot with one/both of the Raptors 2nd round picks or even a future 1st round pick. Unless a team in the lottery is dead-set on drafting Marshall, I think Ed Davis could quite easily be turned into Marshall. But what do I know, none of us truly knows what value any player has around the league.
    If we whom are fans of the Raptors tend to over value our players think that he is better off being traded then what do you think those potential teams whom are looking for a big think he's worth? Just keeping in mind that we moved Barbosa, whom is an established talent for a late second round pick. I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll get much in return for Davis right now. That's why I think its better keeping him around on a rookie scale, let him develop and see what he's got before trading him. It would be a shame if we traded him without giving him a chance and he's goes onto play well for another team. IMO guys like Rojer Mason Jr, Matt Bonner, even Kris Humphries are good solid bench players that went onto have or are having good careers after the Raptors. Would hate to give up on a guy that has double double potential because of a bad start to his career.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,162
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I think the "12th man" part is where the expense is. It doesn't matter how good a player might be....spending $4million on a player who only sees the floor when everyone else is dead, is just poor roster (and salary cap) management.

    Either move him up in the rotation to get your money's worth, or trade him to address another need.
    I think 12th is a stretch. JV isn't going to start his NBA career playing 35+ minutes a game. If Bargs or Amir misses anytime to injury the only other big would be Gray I think.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,971
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Either way, I'm just glad I'm not Colangelo.

    He's got a lot of tough decisions to make this summer. It wouldn't surprise me to see half the roster gone.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  14. #54
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,960
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I bet dollars to donuts he plays between 25 - 35 minutes to start fouls pending

  15. #55
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,960
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Again I agree with Nilanka. He is currently in the stockpiling phase. He now has a TONNE of assets, picks, trade exception, two incoming Lottery picks, and a mountain of cap space. If ever there was a summer where this team was blown up and taken to the next phase it would be this one

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,319
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    despite what I feel about this kid either way if we draft thomas robinson both bargs and davis needs to go. its a unfair position for all parties.

  17. #57
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,960
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Anyone who says trade Bargs fails to see the dynamic he creates when he is backed up by Amir and plays with JV

  18. #58
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,286
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    If we whom are fans of the Raptors tend to over value our players think that he is better off being traded then what do you think those potential teams whom are looking for a big think he's worth? Just keeping in mind that we moved Barbosa, whom is an established talent for a late second round pick. I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll get much in return for Davis right now. That's why I think its better keeping him around on a rookie scale, let him develop and see what he's got before trading him. It would be a shame if we traded him without giving him a chance and he's goes onto play well for another team. IMO guys like Rojer Mason Jr, Matt Bonner, even Kris Humphries are good solid bench players that went onto have or are having good careers after the Raptors. Would hate to give up on a guy that has double double potential because of a bad start to his career.
    No way can you compare Davis to Barbosa, as far as trade returns.

    Barbosa is on the downward side of his career, was a rental player making $7M+ per season and the Raptors were refusing to take any salary back in return.

    Davis is a young player who was extremely well regarded coming out of UNC, has showed some solid flashes, has a high ceiling to improve, is on a rookie-scale contract, is under control for several more season (ie: team would have his RFA and Bird rights long-term) and has done it all so far without a single NBA training camp or consistent playing time.

    I think there would be significant interest in Davis. Yes, teams might try to get him at a discount, but if you throw in a few extras (ie: one/both of the 2012 2nd round draft picks), there's no reason why he shouldn't be worth a mid 1st round pick (especially if you are giving back the #35 pick in addition to Davis).

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    448
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Ed Davis will be the one to go over Amir; there's just no way you can eventually pay Davis while also paying Bargs and DeRozan as well as keeping room on the books for Val and this year's rookie down the road. The problem is that Raps fans won't be too pleased with his market value.

    The NBA is currently stocked with talented young bigs and lacks quality wings. Just like the Raps. Try to find a team that needs help in the frountcourt and has a wing or even a decent point to trade back. Colangelo has his work cut out for him if he wants to extract maximum value from Davis.

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,971
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Fear of a player potentially improving following a trade, is never a good reason to hold onto a player who doesn't fit. After all, a good trade should benefit both teams. If Davis goes on to become a double-double machine, so be it. If the Raptors obtained a quality piece and are winning games, then we'd have no reason to regret the trade.

    Colangelo needs to eliminate roster redundancy this summer, and with Bargnani and Valanciunas cemented, there's no room for both Amir and Davis. And as the Chisolm article highlights, Davis seems to be the odd man out.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •