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Thread: Trade the pick: ESPN late to the party (274)

  1. #261
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    Trading down or out of the first round entirely for veteran help would be so incredibly premature for this team and will without a doubt put us right back on the treadmill. If anything they should be looking to trade up and increase the likelyhood of landing a true allstar. Building around Derozan, Bargnani, Jonas, and Granger is sheer stupidity. High draft picks on rookie contracts are the most valuable pieces this team can acquire.

  2. #262
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    Jose Calderon + Ed Davis + 1st round pick + 2nd round pick

    for

    Andre Iguodala Or Danny Granger.

    This is the most I would be willing to give up to upgrade to semi-star status at the SF.
    That is a lot to give up for Granger or AI. Both are on the downside of their careers and experiencing multi-year slides in production.

    I would be very disappointed with AI or Granger at the expense of the 1st round pick.

  3. #263
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    Trading down or out of the first round entirely for veteran help would be so incredibly premature for this team and will without a doubt put us right back on the treadmill. If anything they should be looking to trade up and increase the likelyhood of landing a true allstar. Building around Derozan, Bargnani, Jonas, and Granger is sheer stupidity. High draft picks on rookie contracts are the most valuable pieces this team can acquire.
    It all depends who is acquired with the #8 pick. I agree that players like Granger or Iguodala would lead the franchise into mediocrity, especially if the #8 pick and other assets are required to get them in trade. However, if a player like Rudy Gay was acquired, who is younger and better than Granger/AI, I would suddenly feel much better about the deal.

    For instance, I would be all over this trade:
    # 8 pick & DeRozan & Amir & JJ --> Gay & #25 pick

    - Gay would become the starting SF, Kleiza backup (JJ is extra, no big loss)
    - trading Amir would clearup logjam at PF, allowing Davis to backup Bargnani (Amir is extra, no big loss)
    - obviously DD would need to be replaced via draft, free agency or additional trade (a big loss, but Gay is an upgrade and the draft picks and/or cap space should be able to find a replacement starting SG)
    - Toronto would still have the #25, #37 and #56 picks to add players (or use as assets to trade back into the mid-first round)

    In that scenario, I think the #8 pick would prove to be quite valuable in a trade scenario and I don't think there are any players likely to be available at #8 that are as sure a thing as Gay.

  4. #264
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    If he trades the pick he is throwing away the future just to make the playoffs next season

  5. #265
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    If he trades the pick he is throwing away the future just to make the playoffs next season
    I think it all depends on what he gets back with the pick. If its an over the hill veteran like Paul Pierce than yeah I agree. However if its a guy that can be part of the core for years to come like Rudy Gay then I think its worth it.

    Rudy Gay is only 26 years old. He still has 6-8 solid years left in him.

  6. #266
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Guys, would you rather us be like Sacramento who all they have are young players, who can't play together? Let's hope that BriCo can make a similar Kawhi Leonard for George Hill trade.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
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  7. #267
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    Guys, would you rather us be like Sacramento who all they have are young players, who can't play together? Let's hope that BriCo can make a similar Kawhi Leonard for George Hill trade.
    1. its not the kings players fault the team drafted a bunch of tweeners and threw them together with a crappy coach
    2. leonard is the better player in that deal so...
    @jerboat

  8. #268
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    1. its not the kings players fault the team drafted a bunch of tweeners and threw them together with a crappy coach
    2. leonard is the better player in that deal so...
    How about Washington? At the end of the day balance is what works best, and not by using 20yr olds balanced with 35yr olds.

    We do need some veteran presence but it IS essential there is a young group of TALENTED players that grow with the team.

  9. #269
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    How about Washington? At the end of the day balance is what works best, and not by using 20yr olds balanced with 35yr olds.

    We do need some veteran presence but it IS essential there is a young group of TALENTED players that grow with the team.
    It also helps you don't have a team of headcases and chuckers
    @jerboat

  10. #270
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    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    Trading down or out of the first round entirely for veteran help would be so incredibly premature for this team and will without a doubt put us right back on the treadmill. If anything they should be looking to trade up and increase the likelyhood of landing a true allstar. Building around Derozan, Bargnani, Jonas, and Granger is sheer stupidity. High draft picks on rookie contracts are the most valuable pieces this team can acquire.
    You got that right. This "hit the ground running" thing is being stretched into franchise busting recommendations. Even Gay though a very good player is being paid as a franchise player (remember Bosh?) While there is need for a good wing he is not the type (i dont think) who would make this team at this stage of its evolution exponentially better. I would say him going to the Mavs or a Clippers type team who want to go over the top would be where he would excel. He will cost much in assets as well as a cap hit. I would target this year slightly lower tier players with experience and an upside like Chandler and Batum or Green and keep the pick. If this team improves going forward this is the last year for awhile I hope we shall be picking this high. It is a terrific asset not to be trivialized unless we get a around 12-15 back in a deal. Regarding the cap I am leaning towards keeping the powder dry for a year and let some of the teams out there get into trouble so we can get something good on the cheap around next deadline.

  11. #271
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    You got that right. This "hit the ground running" thing is being stretched into franchise busting recommendations. .
    I don't think the vision that fans like you and me have is shared by management. Until further notice, I am taking BC and Casey at their word that they want to win games next year. In order to do that, this team needs to go in a very different direction from what I think is in its long term interests but they don't pay me millions of dollars to run their team, so waht I think is irrelevant.

    My fear now is that instead of really going for it the Raps will instead take some sort of half-assed approach where they try to improve the team just enough to fight for the 7-8 seed while pretending that their middling young players are the franchise of the future. This to me is the worst of both worlds. Either commit to a long-term plan or go for a title in the short term. If one's response is that they can't create a title contender in the short run, then maybe the Raps need to re-think the plan.

  12. #272
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is a lot to give up for Granger or AI. Both are on the downside of their careers and experiencing multi-year slides in production.

    I would be very disappointed with AI or Granger at the expense of the 1st round pick.
    I know that is a lot to give up, thats why I said it is the MOST I would give up for them. AI is 28 and Granger is 29, so I think they have a lot of burn left and even though their production has decreased over the last few years, both of the teams that they play for have become more successful, which shows that they do what it takes for the team to win. They both defend well, I mean Rudy Gay would be a better option than both of them, but I just don't see Memphis giving him up.

    The 8th pick is still a crap shoot if you ask me.
    Davis/johnson are expendable because of our depth at the PF.
    The 2nd round pick is expendable.
    The loss of Jose ... depends how you feel about Bayless, I for one think Bayless could start for our team and put up huge numbers.

    Thats why I would do this deal. This is just an example of what we can realistically accomplish in terms of addressing the need at SF without giving up the core of this team (unless you consider calderon part of the core).

  13. #273
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    I know that is a lot to give up, thats why I said it is the MOST I would give up for them. AI is 28 and Granger is 29, so I think they have a lot of burn left and even though their production has decreased over the last few years, both of the teams that they play for have become more successful, which shows that they do what it takes for the team to win. They both defend well, I mean Rudy Gay would be a better option than both of them, but I just don't see Memphis giving him up.

    The 8th pick is still a crap shoot if you ask me.
    Davis/johnson are expendable because of our depth at the PF.
    The 2nd round pick is expendable.
    The loss of Jose ... depends how you feel about Bayless, I for one think Bayless could start for our team and put up huge numbers.

    Thats why I would do this deal. This is just an example of what we can realistically accomplish in terms of addressing the need at SF without giving up the core of this team (unless you consider calderon part of the core).
    There is no problem in agreeing to disagree.

    I would not go near Granger or Iguodala.

    Of the three (including Gay), I think Granger and AI are less likely to move with Granger almost a definite and AI 50/50. I think Gay would be 60/40.

    *full disclosure: all numbers pulled straight from my bum.

  14. #274
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    Default Raps shopping the 8th

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...ck-for-forward

    The Toronto Raptors know exactly what they want out of the 2012 NBA draft:

    An established, athletic wing man.

    And that's why the Raptors have already made it known to rival teams that their lottery pick on June 28 -- No. 8 overall -- is available to a trade partner that can provide the elite small forward they seek, according to sources close to the situation.

    With a slew of league execs having converged on Chicago this week for the NBA's annual pre-draft camp, sources told ESPN.com that the Raptors have at least two known trade targets: Memphis swingman Rudy Gay and Philadelphia's Andre Iguodala.

    The Raptors, sources said, are prepared to part with their lottery pick in this month's draft at least partly because they have a lottery pick on the way. Lithuanian star Jonas Valanciunas, selected No. 5 overall by Toronto in the 2011 draft, is poised to join the Raptors next season after the young 7-footer quickly established himself as one of the most exciting big men in Europe.

    Yet it remains to be seen whether Toronto can manufacture the other assets needed to go with the No. 8 to tempt Memphis or Philly or any other team that surfaces with a top swingman available. Veteran point guard Jose Calderon (who possesses an expiring contract in 2012-13) and young big man Ed Davis are among the players that the Raptors would conceivably be willing to put into a trade package.

    As ESPN.com reported Sunday, Toronto also plans to be a determined suitor in free agency for Phoenix Suns point guard Steve Nash, hoping to bring Canada's former Olympic basketball captain and newly installed general manager of the senior national team back to home soil.

    But if the Raptors decide, in the end, not to make a draft-night deal and keep the pick, they're expected to focus on the top guards that could be available at No. 8. Sources say that Toronto is intrigued by Syracuse's Dion Waiters, UConn's Jeremy Lamb and Weber State's Damian Lillard.

  15. #275
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    1. its not the kings players fault the team drafted a bunch of tweeners and threw them together with a crappy coach
    2. leonard is the better player in that deal so...
    Your right, it isn't the players fault that there isn't any veterans on that team..it's managements'. Philly and Indy wouldn't be where they are without solid veterans.

    That trade is a wash, both teams got the player they needed and that's how good deals are done.
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  16. #276
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Iguodala might be the better fit. Should the Raptors have to include Calderon in a deal, and we lose out on Nash, Iguodala plays a point forward role. Takes the ease off of however we'll have as our starting 1 next season.

  17. #277
    Raptors Republic Rookie Jon_Wade's Avatar
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    Unless we have a way to get Jrue too(us add in pieces as well) I don't think giving up the 8th for AI is worth it
    Whoever told you skies the limit is looking dumb because I'm 22 and i'm moonwalking on the sun.

  18. #278
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Iguodala might be the better fit. Should the Raptors have to include Calderon in a deal, and we lose out on Nash, Iguodala plays a point forward role. Takes the ease off of however we'll have as our starting 1 next season.
    Iggy as a point forward? That's the 1st I'm ever hearing of such a strategy. He's no Odom or Turkoglu.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  19. #279
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    he's actually a excellent facilitator
    @jerboat

  20. #280
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    he's actually a excellent facilitator
    Agreed.

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