Page 4 of 15 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 288

Thread: Trade the pick: ESPN late to the party (274)

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Utrecht, The Netherlands (Yes, that's Europe!)
    Posts
    1,917
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    actually it's the best idea. i don't care for what scouts say about this draft. ive watched a lot of college ball and i havent been impressed with guys. rember these scouts are the same ones who have made countless mistakes in the draft
    The same ones? They didn't involve the ones that made the right decisions?

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    1,570
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I was thinking tonight about how Stern keeps saying a deal is close with a buyer who keeps the team in NOLA. If they don't sell by the draft AND the Raptors get #1 I think Stern would trade the NOLA picks for the marketing and sale ability of Davis.

    Since NOLA would be top 5 and late lottery picks this would be ideal, of course a two-course dream scenario but it is what it is.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hamilton,ON a.k.a. The Hammer!
    Posts
    5,257
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Agreed. I don't think you trade this years pick even if it's the worst case scenario...which I think is the 10th pick in the draft. Keeping in mind that outside of the consensus #1 pick in the draft anyone, and I mean anyone can rise or drop in the draft after the combines and private work outs.
    actually worse case is 14th

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hamilton,ON a.k.a. The Hammer!
    Posts
    5,257
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    flip the pick for j smoove, he's dirt and can play both positions

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Ottawa/Toronto
    Posts
    231
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    There's guys in the Raptors range (5-10) that can still contribute next year and have an impact in the rotation, J Lamb and Barnes come to mind. So bringing in Batum or another "young vet" for the pick would be kind of the same thing except more expensive (and you could argue Lamb and Barnes have more potential).

    I say only trade the pick if it's part of a larger deal that would bring a bigger piece to TO --ex/ Rondo, Lowry, Gordon, Jennings + x player

    I'm also curious to see what happens with our second rounders--Fab Melo, Draymond Green, D Lamb, John Jenkins, ...Joseph, Nicholson, Kabongo?? Or can those be flipped with other assets for a 'win now' player?
    Last edited by IROR; Sat Apr 7th, 2012 at 12:05 AM.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Ottawa/Toronto
    Posts
    231
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    actually it's the best idea. i don't care for what scouts say about this draft. ive watched a lot of college ball and i havent been impressed with guys. rember these scouts are the same ones who have made countless mistakes in the draft
    You've seen it but the guys who get paid to scout have no idea what they're talking about? There haven't been this many good, intriguing prospects picks 1-40 in a while.

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    599
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    flip the pick for j smoove, he's dirt and can play both positions
    He is hitting free agency next year. He is also a headcase. I wouldn't touch him.

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hamilton,ON a.k.a. The Hammer!
    Posts
    5,257
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    He is hitting free agency next year. He is also a headcase. I wouldn't touch him.
    he's not a headcase, atlanta is a fuckin headcase.

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,528
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    he's not a headcase, atlanta is a fuckin headcase.
    Nah j smoove is getting up there in age and we will be abandoning the rebuilding if we trade for him

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I don't see any problem with stockpiling draft picks if we can steal another first rounder this year. Then you'd have a young core developing together and hopefully hitting their prime at the same time.

    Drafting 7th or worse could turn out in our favour. We could end up getting lucky drafting a PG.

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hamilton,ON a.k.a. The Hammer!
    Posts
    5,257
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Nah j smoove is getting up there in age and we will be abandoning the rebuilding if we trade for him
    this entire thread is about abandoning the rebuild from what i understand.

    if it doesn't work out he's a player that a contender wouldbe dying to have, or a borderliner looking for that piece.

    I think it's an easy abort if it dont work out. youjust ship him out west, dallas, san antonio, la, even phoenix if they retain nash.

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,755
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    this entire thread is about abandoning the rebuild from what i understand.

    if it doesn't work out he's a player that a contender wouldbe dying to have, or a borderliner looking for that piece.

    I think it's an easy abort if it dont work out. youjust ship him out west, dallas, san antonio, la, even phoenix if they retain nash.
    i am for trading the pick if we are landing at the 8-10 might be able to get a batum, who i dont think is giving up on the rebuild and maybe a later first round pick.

  13. #73
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hamilton,ON a.k.a. The Hammer!
    Posts
    5,257
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i am for trading the pick if we are landing at the 8-10 might be able to get a batum, who i dont think is giving up on the rebuild and maybe a later first round pick.
    well, a rebuild is getting your star players through the draft and then using free agency and trades to fill out the rest of the roster.

    you're not going to get batum out of portland, and quite frankly he isn't worth what it would take even if it was possible.

    Josh Smith is younger than bargnani i think, I know he's not 30.

    But, his price could be a bit steep and there are younger, less risky options. I'm still not sure Derozan is a sure fire 2. But, let's say he is.I just don't see any non-draft options at 3. Unless, you try to get wes johnson or d-will 2 from minny.
    Last edited by Matt52; Mon Apr 9th, 2012 at 02:19 AM. Reason: line removed - inappropriate

  14. #74
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,755
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    well, a rebuild is getting your star players through the draft and then using free agency and trades to fill out the rest of the roster.

    you're not going to get batum out of portland, and quite frankly he isn't worth what it would take even if it was possible.

    Josh Smith is younger than bargnani i think, I know he's not 30.

    But, his price could be a bit steep and there are younger, less risky options. I'm still not sure Derozan is a sure fire 2. But, let's say he is.I just don't see any non-draft options at 3. Unless, you try to get wes johnson or d-will 2 from minny.
    be amused if you like
    Last edited by Matt52; Mon Apr 9th, 2012 at 02:19 AM. Reason: quote and reply altered

  15. #75
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    599
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    well, a rebuild is getting your star players through the draft and then using free agency and trades to fill out the rest of the roster.

    you're not going to get batum out of portland, and quite frankly he isn't worth what it would take even if it was possible.

    Josh Smith is younger than bargnani i think, I know he's not 30.

    But, his price could be a bit steep and there are younger, less risky options. I'm still not sure Derozan is a sure fire 2. But, let's say he is.I just don't see any non-draft options at 3. Unless, you try to get wes johnson or d-will 2 from minny.

    Josh is the same age as Bargs and is much better than him in every way as a C/PF.

    If he is ready to commit to us I would have no problem signing him. We don't want to sign the Deron Williams 2.0 who is hitting the free agency next year.

    Atlanta would need Bargnani + this year 1st rounder for him. Any trade which involves this year's lottery pick has to be a franchise player. And Josh with all his positives is still not a franchise player.
    Last edited by Matt52; Mon Apr 9th, 2012 at 02:18 AM. Reason: quote altered

  16. #76
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,528
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    Josh is the same age as Bargs and is much better than him in every way as a C/PF.

    If he is ready to commit to us I would have no problem signing him. We don't want to sign the Deron Williams 2.0 who is hitting the free agency next year.

    Atlanta would need Bargnani + this year 1st rounder for him. Any trade which involves this year's lottery pick has to be a franchise player. And Josh with all his positives is still not a franchise player.
    Josh smith cant play C

  17. #77
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,000
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Josh smith cant play C
    His defense says otherwise :P

  18. #78
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    599
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Josh smith cant play C
    He has done it several times covering for Pachulia this season. Horford's injury has left Atlanta short there. But I agree with you ideally he is not a center.

  19. #79
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,643
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors have been planning for a top 5 pick and suddenly they are picking 9th, the scenario could very well play out. Going back to Colangelo's drafting skills, he might feel that a guy at 16 is better than the guy at 9 long term - despite what others media or GMs think. Quincy Miller, for example, is a player who has seen his stock fall but could be one of the highest reward picks in the draft with continued rehabilitation and strength training. DraftExpress.com currently has Miller at 18.
    Some key ideas I think you're missing here:


    • I don't think an NBA team plans around drafting anybody unless they're in a position of certainty, like drafting 1st overall or drafting after what they feel were consensus picks.
    • How does Colangelo know the guy he wants will go 16th overall? Any good player at the table isn't showing his cards. Those mock drafts are always wrong. No one thought JV was going to fall to #5 last year. No one thought Ed Davis was going to fall to #13 the year before. That's a couple examples close to home.
    • You need to ask yourself why Quincy Miller's stock has plummeted so much? He tore his ACL in high school and based on everything I've followed and saw he reminds me of Jonathan Bender. Great...


    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And he also had a deal lined up with Detroit to trade a player each and their picks last year until CLE unexpectedly picked Thompson. Again, this comes back to his judgement of the players in the draft. By your own logic, if a player like Jrue Holiday could be had and he feels Holiday is better than the player available with his pick, clearly he makes the trade.
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    When the memo on the whole season has been to hit the ground running, you take the best players available and that best player might not be the draft pick
    Colangelo has been less successful when trading picks as opposed to using them. This is clear, and whether or not he was going to trade the pick last year is irrelevant. I'm not saying he wouldn't do it, I'm saying history indicates that he shouldn't do it. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule but I'd need more than this he said, she said stuff to continue on this path.

  20. #80
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17,759
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Some key ideas I think you're missing here:


    • I don't think an NBA team plans around drafting anybody unless they're in a position of certainty, like drafting 1st overall or drafting after what they feel were consensus picks.
    • How does Colangelo know the guy he wants will go 16th overall? Any good player at the table isn't showing his cards. Those mock drafts are always wrong. No one thought JV was going to fall to #5 last year. No one thought Ed Davis was going to fall to #13 the year before. That's a couple examples close to home.
    • You need to ask yourself why Quincy Miller's stock has plummeted so much? He tore his ACL in high school and based on everything I've followed and saw he reminds me of Jonathan Bender. Great...
    Some key words I think you're missing here:
    • If
    • Might
    • for example


    All implied hypothetical situations where I thought we had previously both agreed we have no idea what is going on in Colangelo's mind.

    Some key concepts I think you're missing here:
    • any draft pick trade would happen on draft night when who is available at what selection is known
    • trading the draft pick a month or two out of the draft is not very bright
    • remembering all this happens on draft night, but one of the points was say Moe Harkless or Quincy Miler (again, hypothetical) was atop BC's draft board. All the mock board and other GM's have those guys in the high teens but BC with his great talent evaluation skills in the draft feels those guys are better than the consensus picks in the 5-10 range. Why wouldn't he trade the pick if he can get another asset AND the player he truly covets at a lower pick? So putting it all together at the Raptors selection, they take the consensus best player available or the player another team wants and then another team takes the player BC wants later along with acquring another asset(s).



    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Colangelo has been less successful when trading picks as opposed to using them. This is clear, and whether or not he was going to trade the pick last year is irrelevant. I'm not saying he wouldn't do it, I'm saying history indicates that he shouldn't do it. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule but I'd need more than this he said, she said stuff to continue on this path.
    What does it say at the bottom of a prospectus? "Past performance does not guarantee future performance."
    I'm aware of Colangelo's history of moves. Here is every move he has made: http://hoopshype.com/general_manager..._colangelo.htm

    The point I attempted to make was to get the best player available. That best player might not be the pick (that was another hypothetical). Jrue Holiday, in the example I gave, is a proven, defensive minded NBA PG who is younger, the same age, or one year older than many of the PG's currently in this year's draft. Of course, the draft is based on taking the best player available and that player most likely will not be a PG when the Raptors pick. But that is not the issue I raised as that is a given. The point is what if Jrue Holiday can be had for the pick (or in combination of assets in a particular trade) and Holiday is deemed to be a better player and prospect than anything the Raptors could take with that selection. So if the memo is to hit the ground running and it is deemed trading the pick for Jrue Holiday (and hopefully other assets) is the best way to go about that, then trade the pick.

    Of course, this is all hypothetical and the odds of it happening in any respect is equivalent to me getting a call up to replace Gray in the starting lineup as the season continues onwards.
    Last edited by Matt52; Tue Apr 10th, 2012 at 09:21 AM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •