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Thread: Is JV a potential franchise player?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Cornerstone - Yes. He has talent (we have seen from how he plays in Europe) and work ethic.

    Franchise Player - I do not see it. When you look at a franchise player, they carry the team. They are the type of player you say "Cant win without him". I think he will be far less of a franchise player then Bosh (not to say Bosh was a legit franchise player). I think he will be solid and he will be able to carry the team at some points, but not a franchise player.

    Who knows though? But whether he is a franchise player or not, he will make an impact. He has tons of talent, athletic ability, tons of experience playing against strong competition.

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    They could give everyone fake unibrows before games
    Did you see some of the UK band at the game sport unibrows? Lol.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    Cornerstone - Yes. He has talent (we have seen from how he plays in Europe) and work ethic.

    Franchise Player - I do not see it. When you look at a franchise player, they carry the team. They are the type of player you say "Cant win without him". I think he will be far less of a franchise player then Bosh (not to say Bosh was a legit franchise player). I think he will be solid and he will be able to carry the team at some points, but not a franchise player.

    Who knows though? But whether he is a franchise player or not, he will make an impact. He has tons of talent, athletic ability, tons of experience playing against strong competition.
    do you think any of his lithuanian championship teams would have won without him? maybe his senior mens teams but none of the others. 5 time mvp is pretty "cant win without this guy" for a prospect

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    do you think any of his lithuanian championship teams would have won without him? maybe his senior mens teams but none of the others. 5 time mvp is pretty "cant win without this guy" for a prospect
    The problem comes when you try to evaluate the quality of competition in Europe vs the NBA. Clearly he is talented. Harder to tell how talented. Only thing that is known for sure is that, at only 19, he has a pretty big upside.

  5. #45
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    Cornerstone - Yes. He has talent (we have seen from how he plays in Europe) and work ethic.

    Franchise Player - I do not see it. When you look at a franchise player, they carry the team. They are the type of player you say "Cant win without him". I think he will be far less of a franchise player then Bosh (not to say Bosh was a legit franchise player). I think he will be solid and he will be able to carry the team at some points, but not a franchise player.

    Who knows though? But whether he is a franchise player or not, he will make an impact. He has tons of talent, athletic ability, tons of experience playing against strong competition.
    Going to have to disagree re the Bosh comparison. If there was a KG playing in his 3rd year he would never back down from that dick the way Bosh kept turtling everytime the Raps played the Celtics. Franchise players dont and cannot do that.

    And please, even Bosh does not really believe he is a franchise player. If he did he would have gone and got his own team. There were many willing to give him a max deal. But he did not and that really says it all. He can get his rings (if he can in Miami) and be no different than A Robert Horry or Rasheed Wallace who were part of a supporting cast on their champ. teams.

    My crystal ball tells me that JV will be leading this team in 3 years. If you see his games on the diff teams and tournaments he has played one can see how his team defers and gravitates to him. Bosh did not command that respect from his team here.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    do you think any of his lithuanian championship teams would have won without him? maybe his senior mens teams but none of the others. 5 time mvp is pretty "cant win without this guy" for a prospect
    But isn't there a difference between the NBA competition and the Lithuanian championship teams competition? All I think the success in Europe has shown is that he is insanely talented and that he can be a solid player in the NBA.

    You do bring up an excellent point though. His success for his age is pretty impressive. He arguably has had a more successful basketball career by age 19 then many franchise players in the league today.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    My best description of what we can expect him to become is a more athletic Marc Gasol...so maybe Marc/crossed with JaVale Mcgee's athleticism (yes that's a stretch but..just go with it).

    Edit: I think he has been compared to Marc Gasol quite a bit and has produced better than Marc when Gasol was in Spain.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
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  8. #48
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    If you think about centers around the league, JV has a good chance of being in the top 15 if he can put up that 7/7 and let's say 2 blocks a game. Tyson Chandler is considered a premiere C and I think he averages 10 and 10 and change in 30 minutes or something.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    I think he definitely has the "potential" to be a franchise player.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    And so did Bargnani. What's the point here?
    Developed body shapes. Bargnani was fairly stronger before he was drafted compared to Jonas. Bargnani played outside. Jonas plays inside.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    But isn't there a difference between the NBA competition and the Lithuanian championship teams competition? All I think the success in Europe has shown is that he is insanely talented and that he can be a solid player in the NBA.

    You do bring up an excellent point though. His success for his age is pretty impressive. He arguably has had a more successful basketball career by age 19 then many franchise players in the league today.
    yes there is a huge difference in talent. lol. the best players of course play in the best leagues. but i believe that winners win. and so far all bigV has done is win at every level since he started playing basketball and as he has gotten better he has dominated. i dont think he will be tim duncan good or howard strong but he will definitely be a player that other teams will have to plan around on offense and respect on defence. and he will bring his winning to toronto.

    he has been called the most talented big man from europe since sabonis but that might just be the lituanians rooting for each other. aside from if we got davis there isnt a player in this draft i would be as excited about as bigV after the year he had.

    i remember the clips on raptors tv when he was touring the facilities and one guy said he worked with pau gasol, the first thing he said was can you teach me to do what pau does. that was a 18 year old kid. going to be a winner.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think the most likely scenario is he's eased into the lineup and averages 25MPG by the end of the season. Casey and Colangelo have both already mentioned this tough veteran big man they're going to target in the off-season. My thinking is that they're looking for that because JV is going to be limited at times. They're not throwing this kid to the wolves like the Raptors did with Bosh at age 19.

    If he hits Amir's 2011/2012 numbers what does that even mean? Some people are talking perrenial all-star and hall of fame. Some guys are talking #2 in the league in the paint. Is 7 and 7 going to be enough in season one with talk like that? It's a little out of control in here.



    And so did Bargnani. What's the point here?
    Time for a little musical interlude:

    I'm so excited,
    and I just can't fight it,
    I'm about to lose control
    and I think I like it.




    OMG, so much potential!




    Personally, I think he will be better than Sabonis. I think my expectations are reasonable. LOL

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    yes there is a huge difference in talent. lol. the best players of course play in the best leagues. but i believe that winners win. and so far all bigV has done is win at every level since he started playing basketball and as he has gotten better he has dominated. i dont think he will be tim duncan good or howard strong but he will definitely be a player that other teams will have to plan around on offense and respect on defence. and he will bring his winning to toronto.

    he has been called the most talented big man from europe since sabonis but that might just be the lituanians rooting for each other. aside from if we got davis there isnt a player in this draft i would be as excited about as bigV after the year he had.

    i remember the clips on raptors tv when he was touring the facilities and one guy said he worked with pau gasol, the first thing he said was can you teach me to do what pau does. that was a 18 year old kid. going to be a winner.
    So because JV has been that successful and has won over and over again against players who, as you said, are not the best, you are telling me that he will join the NBA (play against the hardest competition) and will be in the same category as the Roses, Durants, Howards, Loves, Bryants, and Williams (all the other franchise players) within a few years? Winning one place does not automatically translate to another. But hard work, effort, and love of the game do translate over, which is why I think I agree with you that he will be a solid player, he is a great combination of skills, but he was a fifth pick in a bad draft and that does say something (even with the year he has had and the whole buyout situation). 4 times a GM looked at him and picked someone else. He is not going to come to the league and dominate. I totally agree with you that he has all the potential to be a legit player, but to carry and lead an NBA team? I am not seeing it yet.

    Just my opinion from what I have seen from him.
    Last edited by Red and White; Thu Apr 5th, 2012 at 08:51 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Better than Sabonis is the biggest upside for him, which even for me as his real fan at the moment is pretty unrealistic. Though I am extremely confident in him and his career, first years and the fans opinion towards him. You guys are going to love him. What makes me confident is his LOVE for the basketball (there is no player with bigger passions for bball in this and last years draft, thats my opinion), a sense of gratitude for his franchise, you will see, he will output 150% of himself in being grateful for an opportunity and trust, he's consistently moving forward and taking every opportunity for granted. Even if his stats first year will be struggling, write that down, you still are going to love him as you will see how badly he wants to be better, you will notice this and maybe even became a bigger fans of basketball by yourself His worst scenario is Big Z in my opinion (Ilgauskas) What's not that bad, huh?
    Last edited by RandomGuy; Thu Apr 5th, 2012 at 08:15 AM.

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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    Why you trying to hold him back, quintuple double, quintuple double...
    That's asking a lot. I would be happy with simply a double-triple.

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    ...4 times a GM looked at him and picked someone else. He is not going to come to the league and dominate. I totally agree with you that he has all the potential to be a legit player, but to carry and lead an NBA team? I am not seeing it yet. Just my opinion from what I have seen from him.
    Every story I read had writers commenting on the fact that he would not be available to play the upcoming season or two (with many stories saying he would definitely not be available for two years). Teams picking early in the draft tend to have the highest needs (they finished near the bottom). The fact that he was passed over may speak more to the passing GM's requirement to show immediate improvement in their respective teams, as opposed to their assessment of his skills/potential.

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Every story I read had writers commenting on the fact that he would not be available to play the upcoming season or two (with many stories saying he would definitely not be available for two years). Teams picking early in the draft tend to have the highest needs (they finished near the bottom). The fact that he was passed over may speak more to the passing GM's requirement to show immediate improvement in their respective teams, as opposed to their assessment of his skills/potential.
    Not to be picky, but we finished at the bottom as well and our team needed immediate improvement as well as the Cav's and Minnesota. If anything Utah didn't need that immediate improvement as much as we did, but went with Kanter.

    In an absolute worst case scenario I see JV as a taller and eventually bigger version of Amir Johnson, though personally I think he would be better at the offensive end of the floor. That alone will make use a better defensive team. I can't say I think he'll be a franchise player because to be a franchise player imo you must be able to dominate at your position. Is he going to be able to dominate or even go toe to toe with Dwight, Bynum? I haven't seen anything that would makes me say yes, but from what I've seen he looks to be a really good player with a tonne of experience. Can wait to see how it translates to the NBA.

  18. #58
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Personally, I think he will be better than Sabonis. I think my expectations are reasonable. LOL
    While I realize you're joking here, I'm pretty sure I was one of the few people trying to calm people's expectations about DeRozan after the second half of last season. You know, during that time when he started getting compared to Kobe and those silly threads about how he's too good to ever want to re-sign in Toronto sprung up... We do this to ourselves just about every year.

    Let's build up the next one to unrealistic expectations so we can unfairly tear him down at the first signs of adversity. Proceed... *bookmarks thread*

    Carter = Air Jordan
    Bosh = Garnett
    Bargnani = Dirk
    Calderon = Nash
    DeMar & Sonny = Vince & T-Mac
    JV = GOAT

    Let the good times roll.

    ...Until 2012 opening tip off.

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    While I realize you're joking here, I'm pretty sure I was one of the few people trying to calm people's expectations about DeRozan after the second half of last season. You know, during that time when he started getting compared to Kobe and those silly threads about how he's too good to ever want to re-sign in Toronto sprung up... We do this to ourselves just about every year.

    Let's build up the next one to unrealistic expectations so we can unfairly tear him down at the first signs of adversity. Proceed... *bookmarks thread*

    Carter = Air Jordan
    Bosh = Garnett
    Bargnani = Dirk
    Calderon = Nash
    DeMar & Sonny = Vince & T-Mac
    JV = GOAT

    Let the good times roll.

    ...Until 2012 opening tip off.
    No arguments from me on the matter. I just have been searching for any excuse to throw in a link to the Pointer Sisters for nearly 2 years now

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    It's not just Toronto where the incredibly high expectations are placed.

    Kyrie Irving = Chris Paul
    Roy Hibbert = Patrick Ewing
    Bismack Biyombo - Dikembe Mutombo
    John Wall = Derrick Rose
    Ricky Rubio = Pete Maravich
    Isaiah Thomas = Isaiah Thomas (lol)

    It's a subconscious game everyone plays these days. "When a young player is selected, what past or present superstar does he remind you of?" It's a silly game....but it is what it is.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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