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Thread: Mark Spears suggested that Steve Nash should consider TORONTO

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Deadallus wrote: View Post
    Lets not forget this team has a strong defensive identity which is not Nash's strong point. I think a team he'd fit in well with the Nuggets.
    Nash has a solid oppPER of 14.3 (82games.com) this season and the same 14.3 oppPER last season. That is much better than Bayless (16.8 this year and 19 last) and Calderon (18 this year and 18.2 last year).

    Stats are hardly the be all and end all but given the style of play PHX has employed the majority of the last 10 years, I'm not sure he has been given a fair shake.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Apr 8th, 2012 at 01:22 PM.

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    Marc J. Spears has identified the big advantage the Raps have over other suitors -- an ability and willingness to set him up for his post-playing years.

    I think if the Raps offered him somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 years/$30M, with a handshake deal that they'd give him a small ownership stake (like 0.5%) after retirement and a position in the head office, he would seriously consider it. They could even offer to expand the Steve Nash Fitness World and Sports Club chain into the condo complex at Maple Leaf Square. No idea how this would mess up his ownership stake in the Vancouver MLS franchise, but clearly he has an eye on interests outside of the NBA.

    Nash has shown that his interests stretch far beyond the playing floor, and a deal that sets him up for a post-retirement life of being Mr. Basketball in Canada would be enticing.

  3. #23
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The way MDA was treated in NYC should have some sort of impact on his decision there. I mean Melo isn't a team player and he can't hope to jive with a true PG out to involve the whole team. NYC would be a mistake. Not to mention they don't have the means to land Nash and keep Lin. Lin is their best bet thinking from the perspective of a guy like Dolan, who isn't all there when it comes to making a winning on court product.

    As for Toronto. I'll believe it when I see him here at the ACC talking with Colangelo about the idea of playing in Toronto. Whether he picks the Raptors or not shouldn't have any real impact on his post-career opportunities in corporate Canada. I get what Spears is saying but what he's missing is that Nash is a basketball icon in Canada regardless. He's the first Canadian NBA MVP. His place at any table in Canada is set. Heck, I made lots of Turkey I should call him up right now!

    In terms of the basketball hierachy in Canada it goes: Wayne Gretzky, Steve Nash and then Dr. James Naismith. Yeah, I said Gretzky. Gretzky is default #1 for everything in Canada. We're saps for him like that.

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    Quote Deadallus wrote: View Post
    Lets not forget this team has a strong defensive identity which is not Nash's strong point. I think a team he'd fit in well with the Nuggets.

    The Miami Heat have terrific team defense and they make-up for any poor defense that is made by one player. Sure Nash won't be able to guard Rose, but Wade and LeBron can. Nash can't guard Westbrook or Rondo but Wade and LeBron can. If someone drives the lane and gets passed Nash, they still have to get passed a combination of James-Wade-Bosh-Haslem-Turiaf-Anthony-Battier.

    Also, Nash doesn't play much defense because he's never been on a team that plays defense. If he were to join the Miami Heat, I could see his defense improving a bit a la Ray Allen when he joined the Celtics. Ray Allen was a terrible defender in Seattle but since he's joined the Boston Celtics, he's been one of their best perimeter defenders, probably the best perimeter defender on that team after Rondo.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Gretzky is default #1 for everything in Canada. We're saps for him like that.
    best prime minister ever.

    completely off topic and i apologize but first time gretzky came up. does anyone not get blurry and teared up watching and listening to gretzky to lemieux to gretzky to lemieux to gretzky to lemieux and he scores.

    nash in toronto would be huge though. tsn is probably mentally masturbating and getting ready to use the fist just thinking about it. 3 more months and we will know.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote bounty wrote: View Post
    The Miami Heat have terrific team defense and they make-up for any poor defense that is made by one player. Sure Nash won't be able to guard Rose, but Wade and LeBron can. Nash can't guard Westbrook or Rondo but Wade and LeBron can. If someone drives the lane and gets passed Nash, they still have to get passed a combination of James-Wade-Bosh-Haslem-Turiaf-Anthony-Battier.

    Also, Nash doesn't play much defense because he's never been on a team that plays defense. If he were to join the Miami Heat, I could see his defense improving a bit a la Ray Allen when he joined the Celtics. Ray Allen was a terrible defender in Seattle but since he's joined the Boston Celtics, he's been one of their best perimeter defenders, probably the best perimeter defender on that team after Rondo.
    i think nash to miami is silly. not picking on you but yours was the last post advocating it. lebron averages almost 8 assists a game. why would you ever not want the ball in his hands. miami needs a point guard like bayless. someone who is looking for their shot and can get to the rim and hit the 3 who also plays on ball defense. i think chalmers, with his improved 3 ball, is doing well there.

    taking the ball away from lebron is stupid. lebron is so good at this game you cant measure it or even realize it. look at any of the best players for their position and what kind of stats they put up and you can slot lebron into the top 5, if not top 1 or 2. if he played point only he would be the best point guard. if he played the two he would be the best 2 guard, playing the 3 he is the best, if he played the 4 he would be one of the best, might be a couple who could over power him and if he played center he could probably do better than ben wallace did. that guy is so good at this game its ridiculous.

    put it another way. would you pair magic johnson and steve nash. i really dont like arguing for the heat but their money is best spent on someone else.

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    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Quote IROR wrote: View Post
    If he wants to, why not? not like he'll be signing a long term, risky contract...even at 10 mill for the next 2 years would be fine the raps can preserve space for that long
    A cap space of that amount would be an asset down the road.

    .

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    Quote KaioKev wrote: View Post
    Nash can start thinking post-career after he wins a championship. I think Nash should go to a contender like Miami, win a championship with Joel "the greatest undersized centre of all-time" Anthony and then worry about post career. Coming to Toronto for next year is a waste of a healthy back.

    I think Ronny Turiaf would be the starter by then. He's a legit 6'10 and is wider/stronger than Anthony. I think it's only a matter of Turiaf getting in shape before he becomes the starter on this team. Regardless, that would be huge for the Heat and as a Nash supporter and fan of his game, I would love for him to win a ring by the end of his career. Although he's 38, he still has the legs for atleast two good season, if he joins the Heat, he would have the biggest chance to win a championship in those two years.

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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i think nash to miami is silly. not picking on you but yours was the last post advocating it. lebron averages almost 8 assists a game. why would you ever not want the ball in his hands. miami needs a point guard like bayless. someone who is looking for their shot and can get to the rim and hit the 3 who also plays on ball defense. i think chalmers, with his improved 3 ball, is doing well there.

    taking the ball away from lebron is stupid. lebron is so good at this game you cant measure it or even realize it. look at any of the best players for their position and what kind of stats they put up and you can slot lebron into the top 5, if not top 1 or 2. if he played point only he would be the best point guard. if he played the two he would be the best 2 guard, playing the 3 he is the best, if he played the 4 he would be one of the best, might be a couple who could over power him and if he played center he could probably do better than ben wallace did. that guy is so good at this game its ridiculous.

    put it another way. would you pair magic johnson and steve nash. i really dont like arguing for the heat but their money is best spent on someone else.
    LeBron and Wade have vastly improved their off-ball skills compared to last season. Not only that but Nash will make LeBron and Wade improve even more when it comes to off-ball situations. I think you're forgetting exactly how good Nash can make other players and how much he improves them and not to be rude but i dont get your point about magic you do know that both him and Nash are pg?.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    This is an either / or for me. Great if he chases a ring, awesome if he plays here too. Either way.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote bounty wrote: View Post
    LeBron and Wade have vastly improved their off-ball skills compared to last season. Not only that but Nash will make LeBron and Wade improve even more when it comes to off-ball situations. I think you're forgetting exactly how good Nash can make other players and how much he improves them and not to be rude but i dont get your point about magic you do know that both him and Nash are pg?.
    no, i am not forgetting how good nash makes other players. you are not remembering the scrubs that lebron dragged to the nba finals. lebron is magic 2.0. you know when magic first entered the league he was a 4 right? magic like lebron are 1 through 5 ers. it seems like i am trying to take away from your points but i am not. try and name 1 player at any position, literally any, that lebron with the ball in his hands doesnt have an advantage over? you cant do it. he is better than every single person on earth at basketball. to say he is getting better off the ball, is pointless. you never want him off the ball. never ever ever. i can wait for anyone to go through the entire roster of every team and try to find any player who can match up with lebron at the top of the 3 point line like a point guard would start a play. it cant be done.

    if nash went to miami he would actually be a detriment to them winning the championship. if he wants to chase a ring dallas for a last hurrah is a better choice. even the lakers would be better. might even be the best option because sessions off the bench would be great for them too.

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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    no, i am not forgetting how good nash makes other players. you are not remembering the scrubs that lebron dragged to the nba finals. lebron is magic 2.0. you know when magic first entered the league he was a 4 right? magic like lebron are 1 through 5 ers. it seems like i am trying to take away from your points but i am not. try and name 1 player at any position, literally any, that lebron with the ball in his hands doesnt have an advantage over? you cant do it. he is better than every single person on earth at basketball. to say he is getting better off the ball, is pointless. you never want him off the ball. never ever ever. i can wait for anyone to go through the entire roster of every team and try to find any player who can match up with lebron at the top of the 3 point line like a point guard would start a play. it cant be done.

    if nash went to miami he would actually be a detriment to them winning the championship. if he wants to chase a ring dallas for a last hurrah is a better choice. even the lakers would be better. might even be the best option because sessions off the bench would be great for them too.
    My point is that all off them can play off-ball very well lebron can have the ball if he wants Nash is not a ball-dominant guard. Nash plays off-ball very well. Shoots the open gaps and is a terrific player off screens. He doesn't do it because he's better off setting up his teammates but if he played with Wade/LeBron, two good passers, he would need to change his game, not the Miami Heat. Nash wouldn't change their offensive system, he would change his game to fit their needs and would add more of a variety on offense.

  13. #33
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    I think that the probability of Nash-to-Miami might hinge on whether the Heat win the NBA championship this year. If so, then it might look like Nash is just trying to cash in on their successful team to get himself a ring, rather than being the final piece in a championship team. Also, if they win without Nash, LeBron and Co. might decide that they don't need to share any more limelight and/or stats with Nash.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    I think that the probability of Nash-to-Miami might hinge on whether the Heat win the NBA championship this year. If so, then it might look like Nash is just trying to cash in on their successful team to get himself a ring, rather than being the final piece in a championship team. Also, if they win without Nash, LeBron and Co. might decide that they don't need to share any more limelight and/or stats with Nash.
    I don't think Nash will even consider Miami. I heard Bill Simmons' pod cast with Nash a week or so ago, and Bill asked him that same question. Nash didn't reject it and indicated that he would definitely consider it. But I think he just gave a politically correct answer. Why would he say no? To consider Miami he would have to take a serious pay cut (I believe Miami can only afford the mini-MLE which is about $2.5M a year). When he has 3 years left in his tank, I don't think he takes that gamble.

    I think it will come down to six teams - Toronto, Phoenix, Indiana, Dallas, NY and Portland. Phoenix I think has the best chance to get him because he's close with the owner there and the city loves him. Indiana, Portland and Toronto will all have cap space to entice him, and each with different reasons. Toronto is obvious. Portland since they have a rich owner and are always a playoff threat (and heard that they may even consider bringing in D'Antoni to help entice Nash), and Indiana since they have all the primary pieces except for a true PG to contend now.

    Dallas and NY are long shots. Dallas have the cap space and they have one of his best buds in Nowitski playing there.. but from what I hear they will be going all in on DWill. NY on the other hand won't have the cap space, and have Lin on their radar. Giving up on Lin would be a basketball decision and when has Dolan ever made a decision that is good for the ball club?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    ...Phoenix I think has the best chance to get him because he's close with the owner there and the city loves him...
    Nash has straight out said that Phoenix will have to make significant improvements, which will be tougher for them to do if they re-up Nash for what he is worth. I think they are out of the picture because they won't want to spend the dollars it would take to improve significantly. They get a decent pick maybe, but everything else will have to come from free agents/trades that include bad contracts.

  16. #36
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    The arguments against Nash for his D seem kinda pointless. System matters a lot, as the Raptors and Casey have proven all season. There are very few guys in the league who can do a good job on star PGs 1-on-1. As long as Nash is healthy, it's hard to imagine him being worse than Calderon, and given his stronger leadership qualities, it shouldn't be a huge impact.
    So far what it seems like is not everyone buys him chasing a ring in the obvious destinations.
    -MIA may not need him if they win this year. He may not want to beg them to be a possible bit player.
    -NYK D'Antoni gone. Melo running the team at least for now. Melo a winner, but never been able to buy into a team concept. Will Nash want to play with him?
    -CHI - Doesn't need him and probably can't afford him
    -OKC, SAS, BOS, LAC - See above. Memphis could use him as a solid backup maybe, but probably can't afford him.
    -LAL -Might be a possibility depending on what the team decides to do in the offseason. Does anyone know what to expect from them after all the rumors this year?
    -I doubt he'd go to a team like Dallas after the way things happened with Cuban, and they might want to invest in a young PG after sending Kidd off to retirement.
    -Atlanta seems unlikely given their historically cheap and/or stupid management.
    -Minny could use a solid backup, and he could probably keep a large role there where they need to take the next step and may just have the pieces to make a huge jump next year. He'd be a gigantic upgrade on Ridnour, basically.

    -The most likely scenarios for going to a team with the promise to contend or be a lock for the playoffs seem with teams like Miami(if they don't win) and Indy in the East, and Portland, LAL, and maybe a backup role in Minny(great mentor and insurance for a Rubio injury). Toronto would probably be propelled to the playoffs with his addition and other solid moves this year, but a chance at a title?......Not happening. And probably not the year after either. They may still have an outside shot, if for no other reason than his history with BC, which may be the biggest factor in our favor.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I don't think Nash will even consider Miami. I heard Bill Simmons' pod cast with Nash a week or so ago, and Bill asked him that same question. Nash didn't reject it and indicated that he would definitely consider it. But I think he just gave a politically correct answer. Why would he say no? To consider Miami he would have to take a serious pay cut (I believe Miami can only afford the mini-MLE which is about $2.5M a year). When he has 3 years left in his tank, I don't think he takes that gamble.

    I think it will come down to six teams - Toronto, Phoenix, Indiana, Dallas, NY and Portland. Phoenix I think has the best chance to get him because he's close with the owner there and the city loves him. Indiana, Portland and Toronto will all have cap space to entice him, and each with different reasons. Toronto is obvious. Portland since they have a rich owner and are always a playoff threat (and heard that they may even consider bringing in D'Antoni to help entice Nash), and Indiana since they have all the primary pieces except for a true PG to contend now.

    Dallas and NY are long shots. Dallas have the cap space and they have one of his best buds in Nowitski playing there.. but from what I hear they will be going all in on DWill. NY on the other hand won't have the cap space, and have Lin on their radar. Giving up on Lin would be a basketball decision and when has Dolan ever made a decision that is good for the ball club?
    I had not heard about D'Antoni in Portland but that would be really interesting. They have Aldridge, Matthews, and Batum. All those players would thrive in D'Antoni's system*.


    * with the right PG.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    they have the chubster ray felton to run the point

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Nash has straight out said that Phoenix will have to make significant improvements, which will be tougher for them to do if they re-up Nash for what he is worth. I think they are out of the picture because they won't want to spend the dollars it would take to improve significantly. They get a decent pick maybe, but everything else will have to come from free agents/trades that include bad contracts.
    Yes I heard that too... but I still think Phoenix has a leg up on all the other teams. We know he loves that city and that organization. But, they also have one of the best training staffs in the league - even if we have McKechnie, he's not the same as what Phoenix has (and he's comfortable with them).

    Phoenix can offer him the same money that any other team with cap space can. With regards to getting better - there is always that possibility. They still have their amnesty card available to them - which they can use on a guy like Childress for example. They can become players in free agency - and a lot of guys may want to play with a guy like Nash (who has always made guys around him better). They have never really had problems acquiring guys through free agency either. I mean they are in a warm weather climate after all.

    They also have some tradeable assets. Like Robin Lopez, Aaron Brooks, Channing Frye, Hakim Warrick, etc.

    I wouldn't discount Phoenix as a suitor.. I still think they are the favourites to get him back. Unlike Bosh, Howard, etc.. when Nash says there is a chance he could go back, I believe him. The bigger question is does Phoenix want him back. And I would think they'd be stupid not to bring him back despite his age. Nash helps fill the Suns' arena. Without him, you lose fans and that means less money. For a cheap owner that would be a tough pill to swallow.

    I would absolutely love for Nash to come to the Raptors. I'm just trying to be real though.. there is a better chance of Nash going back to Phoenix then there is for him to come to Toronto despite all the positives our organization can bring him.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I had not heard about D'Antoni in Portland but that would be really interesting. They have Aldridge, Matthews, and Batum. All those players would thrive in D'Antoni's system*.


    * with the right PG.
    I heard this from a fan asking a question to some ESPN reporter (Chad Ford I think but don't quote me on that).. and it made sense to me as well. So this is mostly a made up rumour by me, not something tangible. However if Portland does go after D'Antoni, and we all know they want to dump Felton to get a real PG - Portland acquiring Nash makes a lot of sense for both sides.

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