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Thread: Change is needed.

  1. #21
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    In other words Okafor and the pick.
    I wouldn't be upset with that.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Alright, now we have our two final offers.
    Trade #1:
    Hornets get Andrea Bargnani.
    Raptors get Emeka Okafor and a 2012 first round pick.

    Trade #2:
    Jazz get Jose Calderon, Amir Johnson and two 2012 second round picks.
    Raptors get Devin Harris and Trade Exception.

    Valanciunas/Gray/Magloire
    Okafor/Davis/Kleiza
    Barnes/Johnson
    DeRozan/Forbes/Weems
    Harris/Dragic/Rookie

  3. #23
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't be upset with that.
    Yeah, I wouldn't touch Okafor. Not at that contract. And the pick would absolutely have to be 1 or 2. Then again, if the Hornets get the #1 pick, there's no way they're trading it.

  4. #24
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    Alright, now we have our two final offers.
    Trade #1:
    Hornets get Andrea Bargnani.
    Raptors get Emeka Okafor and a 2012 first round pick.

    Trade #2:
    Jazz get Jose Calderon, Amir Johnson and two 2012 second round picks.
    Raptors get Devin Harris and Trade Exception.

    Valanciunas/Gray/Magloire
    Okafor/Davis/Kleiza
    Barnes/Johnson
    DeRozan/Forbes/Weems
    Harris/Dragic/Rookie
    I don't really see how those moves makes Toronto better. Sorry.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Well, this is certainly not making them worse.
    1. Defense improved
    2. Better draft pick
    3. Change

  6. #26
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Let's dissect the first trade:

    Bargnani for Okafor and the Hornet's first pick.
    If the pick is indeed the #1 pick, there's no way the Hornets do that deal. If it's 4,5,6, I could see the Hornets making that deal, but I don't see why Toronto does it. Okafor is a slow, plodding big man who's offensive game is declining, but still remains a good rebounder. But at 27-28 mil over the next 2 years isn't really exciting. And he's not an upgrade over Bargnani in any way. I wonder how Okafor will come back from a knee injury. I'd pass on it.

    Trade #2
    Jose Calderon and Amir Johnson plus 2 second rounders for Devin Harris
    The Jazz would do Calderon for Harris straight up. But why would we want Harris? He's not that same guy that played in Dallas and New Jersey. I can't see Utah wanting Amir with the plethora of big men they have.

    And are we spending our cap room on Weems and Dragic? Hmm.. Okafor, Weems, Dragic and Harris doesn't really scream ' hitting the ground running'. It;s changing the team alright, but I'm not sure for the better.

  7. #27
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    Well, this is certainly not making them worse.
    1. Defense improved
    2. Better draft pick
    3. Change
    Those moves actually do make this team worse - at least in my opinion.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Those moves actually do make this team worse - at least in my opinion.
    As you said, it's your opinion, and I think it is shared with a lot of others. You have yours, I have mine, and I don't think any of us will convince the other one tonight. I would do those trades and you would not, I think we can close the topic. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts! But... We should do those trades!

  9. #29
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    As you said, it's your opinion, and I think it is shared with a lot of others. You have yours, I have mine, and I don't think any of us will convince the other one tonight. I would do those trades and you would not, I think we can close the topic. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts! But... We should do those trades!
    I agree that this team needs 'change' (in the sense that we need better talent next season)...however..if we're trading 2 of our3 best players, we have to be getting talent in return. In trading Bargnani, you're trading a 7 foot big man who has a very sold inside out game, and was finding his stride defensively under Casey..all of this for Emeka Okafor - a slowfooted bigman who is on the decline and earning a LOT more money than Bargnani.
    In dealing Calderon, you're dealing him for someone (Devin Harris) who's even MORE injury prone than Calderon, is not a very good point guard and has more years on his contract than Jose. I'd rather re-up Bayless and have him run the point as opposed to acquiring Harris.

    That's why those deals you proposed, I feel don't make this team better. They make them worse.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Here's what I'll answer you.

    First of all, you said you wouldn't trade Bargs for Okafor and a number 4, 5 or 6 pick. I'd trade Bargs for one of those picks alone anyday of the week! At 4, 5 or 6, we could still get guys like Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond and Jeremy Lamb! http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

    And, yes, we are spending our cap room on Weems and Dragic. In Dragic, you get a lot of insurance in case Harris get injured, as you seem to say that he's injury prone. Look at what he does right now in Houston. Western Conference player of the week. Try to get better free agents out there, you won't. A championship team isn't build in a year, and this fact is even more of a fact when your team is the Toronto Raptors.

    Last but not least, Devin Harris ain't that much more of an injury prone player than Jose. Plus he's two years younger, he's quicker, he's a better scorer, better defender. He's been an NBA All Star not that long ago, and he played in the NBA Finals. No brainer for me.
    Last edited by charlesnba23; Tue Apr 10th, 2012 at 12:28 AM.

  11. #31
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Let's dissect the first trade:

    Bargnani for Okafor and the Hornet's first pick.
    If the pick is indeed the #1 pick, there's no way the Hornets do that deal. If it's 4,5,6, I could see the Hornets making that deal, but I don't see why Toronto does it. Okafor is a slow, plodding big man who's offensive game is declining, but still remains a good rebounder. But at 27-28 mil over the next 2 years isn't really exciting. And he's not an upgrade over Bargnani in any way. I wonder how Okafor will come back from a knee injury. I'd pass on it.

    Trade #2
    Jose Calderon and Amir Johnson plus 2 second rounders for Devin Harris
    The Jazz would do Calderon for Harris straight up. But why would we want Harris? He's not that same guy that played in Dallas and New Jersey. I can't see Utah wanting Amir with the plethora of big men they have.

    And are we spending our cap room on Weems and Dragic? Hmm.. Okafor, Weems, Dragic and Harris doesn't really scream ' hitting the ground running'. It;s changing the team alright, but I'm not sure for the better.
    +1 We can get MUCH better talent than Okafor.

  12. #32
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    Here's what I'll answer you.

    First of all, you said you wouldn't trade Bargs for Okafor and a number 4, 5 or 6 pick. I'd trade Bargs for one of those picks alone anyday of the week! At 4, 5 or 6, we could still get guys like Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond and Jeremy Lamb! http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

    And, yes, we are spending our cap room on Weems and Dragic. In Dragic, you get a lot of insurance in case Harris get injured, as you seem to say that he's injury prone. Look at what he does right now in Houston. Western Conference player of the week. Try to get better free agents out there, you won't. A championship team isn't build in a year, and this fact is even more of a fact when your team is the Toronto Raptors.

    Last but not least, Devin Harris ain't that much more of an injury prone player than Jose. Plus he's two years younger, he's quicker, he's a better scorer, better defender. He's been an NBA All Star not that long ago, and he played in the NBA Finals. No brainer for me.
    Devin Harris I like. Dragic I like. Everything else is a no no. You listed Lamb, Barnes and Drummond in the draft, these are particular guys we don't want our first options to be, unless we drop. You want Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Thomas Robinson, Bradley Beal. And at this point not knowing who is going when, nothing is "realistic" in terms of drafting. Once we know where the balls drop, than we can speculate who players are at the spot. IMO, we need a wing player, Bradley Beal and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist are guys we want over Lamb and Barnes. Unless we trade Bargnani and land number 1 or even 2, wing players are what we need.

    I don't believe we will be a much better team with Harris, Derozan, Barnes, Okafor, and Valanciunas. Not one bit would I be as excited compared to something like Calderon, Derozan, Gilchrist, Bargnani, and Valanciunas.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Let's dissect the first trade:

    Bargnani for Okafor and the Hornet's first pick.
    If the pick is indeed the #1 pick, there's no way the Hornets do that deal. If it's 4,5,6, I could see the Hornets making that deal, but I don't see why Toronto does it. Okafor is a slow, plodding big man who's offensive game is declining, but still remains a good rebounder. But at 27-28 mil over the next 2 years isn't really exciting. And he's not an upgrade over Bargnani in any way. I wonder how Okafor will come back from a knee injury. I'd pass on it.
    Would you do it if toronto had the 1 pick and Hornets ended up with 4?

  14. #34
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    Would you do it if toronto had the 1 pick and Hornets ended up with 4?
    If someone else was in the deal, say, Ariza, as opposed to Okafor, then I'd seriously consider it.

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