Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Are we really Rebuilding?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    LBF wrote: View Post
    so, what you're saying is we're underachieving when clearly we've done a bit better than most people's beggining of the season expectations.

    you're saying that out of all the teams in the lottery, we're the most talented, and the worst underachiever.

    i think alot of people would disagree with you.

    What I'm saying is The Raptors were likely the most hurt of all teams in the NBA by the lockout/shortened camp/limited practice time PERIOD I can't think of a team that has suffered worse for it (that does not mean has a worse record)
    For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

    Comment


    • #62
      thead wrote: View Post
      What I'm saying is The Raptors were likely the most hurt of all teams in the NBA by the lockout/shortened camp/limited practice time PERIOD I can't think of a team that has suffered worse for it (that does not mean has a worse record)
      I don't believe that. I don't believe you truly think that
      If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

      Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

      Comment


      • #63
        LBF wrote: View Post
        I don't believe that. I don't believe you truly think that
        I guess we're done here then
        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

        Comment


        • #64
          draftedraptor wrote: View Post
          No and No. Kenyon martin will another Marion.
          What do you mean by that?

          Comment


          • #65
            thead wrote: View Post
            What I'm saying is The Raptors were likely the most hurt of all teams in the NBA by the lockout/shortened camp/limited practice time PERIOD I can't think of a team that has suffered worse for it (that does not mean has a worse record)
            They were certainly hurt bad but this lockout shortened season, and more importantly PRE-season preparation ... any teams that entered this year with a new coach are on the top of the list, because the coach would have never truly had a chance to run good practices and training camp with his guys. That would also include Scott in CLE and Frank in DET.
            The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

            Comment


            • #66
              I kind of agree with LBF regarding the lockout excuse.

              Even if we had a full training camp, any team with a new coach would be at a disadvantage compared to established coaches (who already have familiarity with their teams). The lockout might exaggerate that disadvantage a bit, but I don't like the idea of using it as an excuse either.

              Comment


              • #67
                Apollo wrote: View Post
                Attempting to justify your point by explaining your own ignorance at the time is a new tactic I'm unfamiliar with. You win I guess? Colangelo had been scouting Bargnani for a couple years. I assure you Colangelo was very familiar with Bargnani.
                Lol, I was commenting in regards to my 'hindsight'.

                Quite often if we look at the facts now we argue it as "it's easy to say in hindsight".

                Maybe that is true but if you believed it at the time can it still be considered hindsight?

                My point is that Colangelo's foresight hurt this franchise because as we know now he considers Andrea to be a 4. Could the draftin of Andrea still be considered "building around Bosh" when as a GM you drafted an inferior player at the same position as your best player? Can you consider it the best option to draft him when most scouts would have probably indicated that Aldride was a better 4 prospect than Andrea?

                Colangelo had been scouting Andrea for a couple of years and was familiar with him I agree. That doesn't mean he didn't make a mistake in drafting him if he was indeed building around Bosh like he has said.

                Comment


                • #68
                  sleepz wrote: View Post
                  My point is that Colangelo's foresight hurt this franchise because as we know now he considers Andrea to be a 4. Could the draftin of Andrea still be considered "building around Bosh"
                  Yes it should be considering the fact that Colangelo built around Bosh because he said it many, many times. Scouting is about finding out who the player is now and speculating about what he can be later. Obviously they missed the mark on who they felt Bargnani would become. Again, you can't question the motives of Colangelo in 2006 based on what we know now. That doesn't make any sense.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    thead wrote: View Post
                    I guess we're done here then
                    pretty much.

                    you win... even though you're crazy.
                    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      What do you mean by that?

                      past his expiry date and ineffective in our system.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        LBF wrote: View Post
                        one thing cut it out with this fuckin bullshit excuse about no camp.

                        i'll tell you why because the 16 god damn teams making the playoffs, their coaches had no camp either. so, don't feed me this bullshit like it's some disadvantage they have over the other 29 teams and that's why they're shit.

                        please, just stop... JUST FUCKING STOP!!!
                        FWIW, Dallas, the most veteran team out there, last years Champions, were definitely hurt by the lack of a camp. Dirk has said more than once how deeply it affected his ability to prepare/get in shape for the season. But it wasn't only Dirk getting into shape but having to figure out how to integrate one head case while losing 2 key players and a key coach. Their team was a mess early on with little to no chemistry and that is a direct result of no camp. Fortunately they are vets and very talented overall and the system wasn't radically changed (beyond player turn over) so they were able to tread water until the gelled.

                        The Raps, on the other hand, 180'ed the system by replacing Jay with DC and definitely have been changing the "culture" in the locker room. On top of that they added 4 or 5 new players at the beginning of the year (2 new starters on opening night) moved AB to the 4 and then tell me that this young, talent deprived squad wasn't adversely effected by a lack of a camp.

                        The bottom line is they just aren't talented or experienced enough regardless of a TC but that does not negate the fact that camp (and summer league to a lesser degree) is extremely important.
                        LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          minks77 wrote: View Post
                          FWIW, Dallas, the most veteran team out there, last years Champions, were definitely hurt by the lack of a camp. Dirk has said more than once how deeply it affected his ability to prepare/get in shape for the season. But it wasn't only Dirk getting into shape but having to figure out how to integrate one head case while losing 2 key players and a key coach. Their team was a mess early on with little to no chemistry and that is a direct result of no camp. Fortunately they are vets and very talented overall and the system wasn't radically changed (beyond player turn over) so they were able to tread water until the gelled.

                          The Raps, on the other hand, 180'ed the system by replacing Jay with DC and definitely have been changing the "culture" in the locker room. On top of that they added 4 or 5 new players at the beginning of the year (2 new starters on opening night) moved AB to the 4 and then tell me that this young, talent deprived squad wasn't adversely effected by a lack of a camp.

                          The bottom line is they just aren't talented or experienced enough regardless of a TC but that does not negate the fact that camp (and summer league to a lesser degree) is extremely important.
                          Great post.

                          Don't forget with the compact schedule, there was limited time to practice. Early in the season they had full practices in between back to backs or after back to backs. However as the season wore on this was no longer feasible without running the risk of guys dropping like flies. The opportunities to teach were limited and video sessions or shoot arounds are not the same from my experience and in my opinion.

                          Systems and rotations that should have been taught in training camp and honed in season were introduced pre season, taught during season, and honed towards the end of season. Unfortunately, now there are 3 guys playing significant minutes on 10 day contracts so I don't know where this leaves the Raptors now.

                          Anyways, I'm babbling now..... great post.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            Yes it should be considering the fact that Colangelo built around Bosh because he said it many, many times. Scouting is about finding out who the player is now and speculating about what he can be later. Obviously they missed the mark on who they felt Bargnani would become. Again, you can't question the motives of Colangelo in 2006 based on what we know now. That doesn't make any sense.
                            I don't always agree with you but I certainly respect your opinion.

                            I think Colangelo saying this was relative to saying "I can't draft or acquire franchise changing talent so I'm going to call Bosh a franchise player and see where this goes".

                            How can we honestly believe this (building around Bosh) when after he left he suddenly is saying that he is indeed not a franchise player, not the type of player to build around and he's thankful he didn't shackle the team with max handcuffs? Every team is going to have some kind of player turnover every year. Just because he signs a free agent or trades for someone doesn't necessarily mean it is done with an effort to building around Bosh because what players did he acquire (Jose doesn't count as he was here before BC) that actually complimented his game? His draft picks in the Bosh era weren't moves focused on complimenting Bosh's skills and game. I'm sure you'll disagree with this but I know you follow the game, when reviewing his player acquisitions does the list of players appear to be players that complimented his best player?

                            If Bosh had taken the extension Colangelo would be saying the opposite. I don't trust anything Colangelo says and the more he says something doesn't bring anymore truth to it.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              sleepz wrote: View Post

                              If Bosh had taken the extension Colangelo would be saying the opposite. I don't trust anything Colangelo says and the more he says something doesn't bring anymore truth to it.
                              I have questioned several of BC's decisions including handling of Bosh's transfer and even the barbosa trade. I can see where you are coming from. But I have to ask - Are other GMs any better?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Nilanka wrote: View Post
                                I kind of agree with LBF regarding the lockout excuse.

                                Even if we had a full training camp, any team with a new coach would be at a disadvantage compared to established coaches (who already have familiarity with their teams). The lockout might exaggerate that disadvantage a bit, but I don't like the idea of using it as an excuse either.
                                I agree. i'm not disagreeing with the disadvantage, but the disadvantage of the lockout is equal to all 30 teams.

                                A new coach is always at a disadvantage. But, even if we were at the biggest disadvantage due to the lockout. That's no longer valid in mid-april.

                                Also, even if there was no lockout we still wouldn't make the playoffs. Nor will we make the playoffs next year at least it's very unlikely.
                                If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                                Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X