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Thread: Damian Lillard an Option if we Fall

  1. #21
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't be angry if we dropped and drafted Marshall. Like you said, he's a pure point guard and has a special passing ability.
    Marshall can't shoot or get to the rim and has to pass the ball before the defence sets up. Why would a defence even bother to cover him? He passes the ball immediately because it's a hot potato with diminishing returns in his hands. With so few skills his options are limited! Not very impressed with passing point guards that can't shoot and have loads of talent around them to help make them look like they are making the right decisions. That said, he must have a high b-ball IQ because he usually gets the hot potato into the right hands.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    If the Raptors were considering drafting Lillard, I'd rather see them trade the pick outright to Philly for Holiday.

    Holiday is one month younger and NBA proven. He still has a long way to go to reach his potential.

    Lillard reminds me of Charlie Jenkins and Reggie Jackson. Great college numbers but they were seniors as is Lillard (injury gave him a 2nd sophomore season). There doesn't seem to be anything that sets Lillard apart as a prospective top draft pick. In the year of no point guards, his value is artificially inflated.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors were considering drafting Lillard, I'd rather see them trade the pick outright to Philly for Holiday.

    Holiday is one month younger and NBA proven. He still has a long way to go to reach his potential.

    Lillard reminds me of Charlie Jenkins and Reggie Jackson. Great college numbers but they were seniors as is Lillard (injury gave him a 2nd sophomore season). There doesn't seem to be anything that sets Lillard apart as a prospective top draft pick. In the year of no point guards, his value is artificially inflated.
    I really don't see why Philly would give up such a young talent though. I just don't see it, unless they want Lillard for some reason.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    I really don't see why Philly would give up such a young talent though. I just don't see it, unless they want Lillard for some reason.
    Maybe they make another trade. Maybe the Raptors take Elton Brand in any deal. Maybe with cap space Philly addresses the PG in free agency (Dragic?). Maybe Philly is high on a player in the 6-9 range. Maybe Philly feels to reach full potential both Turner and Holiday need the ball in their hands and chooses to go with Turner.

    I don't know why Philly would give him up either. While I think Holiday is a really good, defensive PG I don't see him as a Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook.

    The Sixers are built for mediocrity as currently assembled. You have to give a little to get a little. Holiday might be the piece they have to give to create financial flexibility and obtain more overall talent and depth.

  5. #25
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    Quote Draft wrote: View Post
    Marshall can't shoot or get to the rim and has to pass the ball before the defence sets up. Why would a defence even bother to cover him? He passes the ball immediately because it's a hot potato with diminishing returns in his hands. With so few skills his options are limited! Not very impressed with passing point guards that can't shoot and have loads of talent around them to help make them look like they are making the right decisions. That said, he must have a high b-ball IQ because he usually gets the hot potato into the right hands.
    His passing ability is incredible. It really is. That by itself makes him a huge asset. And if you watched him, didn't you notice him improving areas where people said he was weak? He was supposed to be a bad scorer w/an ugly shot, but he became a very good deep shooter by the end of the season. He also improved his ability to slash to the bucket and score for himself. Kendall strikes me as being the kind of player that will come back every season with a new skill. His athleticism is not so bad that he can't develop some defensive ability. I think he's well worth a late lotto pick.

  6. #26
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    Quote bounty wrote: View Post
    His passing ability is incredible. It really is. That by itself makes him a huge asset. And if you watched him, didn't you notice him improving areas where people said he was weak? He was supposed to be a bad scorer w/an ugly shot, but he became a very good deep shooter by the end of the season. He also improved his ability to slash to the bucket and score for himself. Kendall strikes me as being the kind of player that will come back every season with a new skill. His athleticism is not so bad that he can't develop some defensive ability. I think he's well worth a late lotto pick.
    Good hot of the press info - means he will have to be covered on offence! Going by what's written about him, but the update definitely makes him a more valuable prospect!!

  7. #27
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors were considering drafting Lillard, I'd rather see them trade the pick outright to Philly for Holiday.

    Holiday is one month younger and NBA proven. He still has a long way to go to reach his potential.

    Lillard reminds me of Charlie Jenkins and Reggie Jackson. Great college numbers but they were seniors as is Lillard (injury gave him a 2nd sophomore season). There doesn't seem to be anything that sets Lillard apart as a prospective top draft pick. In the year of no point guards, his value is artificially inflated.
    Seconded...mostly about the trading part, although I'd also be more than happy with Holliday. Basically I'm not sold on either Lillard or Marshall. Now either one may be a player, but this is not a draft like most others recently that at least had 1 legit all-star PG prospect.
    Trading straight up for Holliday, or another young PG (maybe Bledsoe? any other suggestions?), would be a great idea. I think both those 2 guys would fit Casey's system and are closer to real PGs than fake ones. Neither may be a star in the making, but I've seen them both run their teams effectively and play great D, and I'll take that.
    The other option is using the pick in tandem with other assets if we drop...We have so many guys who could easily be gone depending on how the draft shapes up, and given the team's flexibility, we should know a lot early in the draft/FA period if they make a big splash. Guys like Ed, Amir, Linas, JJ, JB...Really just about anybody. I think they'll hang on to a fair amount of pieces from this year, but probably only Bargs is untouchable, and probably only to see if he comes back strong next year and fits next to Jonas.
    Really I don't see how we could drop anyway. I think the lowest we could be slotted at is 8th(quickly looking at standings)...and that leaves the 10th pick as our worst case I think? Lillard looks like he might be a reach there. Marshall too. The top 3 wings will probably be gone (MKG, Beal, Barnes), and we don't want any of the bigs who'll be available, in all likelihood. I really don't see how BC keeps this pick if we drop, and we aren't surprisingly impressed by someone else in the workouts (maybe Rivers or Lamb jumps up the ladder a bit, who knows). I also have a hard time seeing SAC and NOH win their last 3 games each...so I think 5th slot might be our best case, which actually is not too bad, although it would be nice if one of those teams finishes strong(I also have no clue what happens with ties for lottery slots).

  8. #28
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Right. And look at Lillard's competition. Lots of inferior competition. A lot will depend on his workouts, but as for right now, I'm not high on him like some of you are. Low assist totals coupled with not so impressive turnover rates in a very weak and unproven conference makes me not impressed. In my opinion, at this moment, he's not worth a top-10 pick and I don't believe he's an upgrade over Calderon or Bayless
    There's been many players that have come from smaller schools with inferior competition that have done well in the NBA. Competition shouldn't be the deciding factor. He does have NBA talent which has bee the reason why a number of NBA scouts have come to watch him play. It's like people last year with Jonas, because they didn't know much about him and because he played in Europe people thought he wouldn't amount to anything special, because he played in an inferior league. Now everyone thinks he's our saviour. You don't make a judgement on a prospect based solely on his competition. You look at his physical attributes, his skill set and his mindset and you see if he possesses those qualities that would show in the NBA.

  9. #29
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    Quote DG88 wrote: View Post
    There's been many players that have come from smaller schools with inferior competition that have done well in the NBA. Competition shouldn't be the deciding factor. He does have NBA talent which has bee the reason why a number of NBA scouts have come to watch him play. It's like people last year with Jonas, because they didn't know much about him and because he played in Europe people thought he wouldn't amount to anything special, because he played in an inferior league. Now everyone thinks he's our saviour. You don't make a judgement on a prospect based solely on his competition. You look at his physical attributes, his skill set and his mindset and you see if he possesses those qualities that would show in the NBA.
    +1

  10. #30
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    Quote DG88 wrote: View Post
    There's been many players that have come from smaller schools with inferior competition that have done well in the NBA. Competition shouldn't be the deciding factor. He does have NBA talent which has bee the reason why a number of NBA scouts have come to watch him play. It's like people last year with Jonas, because they didn't know much about him and because he played in Europe people thought he wouldn't amount to anything special, because he played in an inferior league. Now everyone thinks he's our saviour. You don't make a judgement on a prospect based solely on his competition. You look at his physical attributes, his skill set and his mindset and you see if he possesses those qualities that would show in the NBA.
    Like I said in a previous post, a lot depends on how is workouts go. The kid put up some serious stats, unfortunately, his competition does play a part in deciding whether or not he should be in this team. The Valancuinas comparison you used is not a good one - Valanciunas played against men. He also got a chance to play against some of the best in the Euro league. Lillard plays against other kids in an unknown conference. He might as well have played in the CIS. I believe it plays a massive part in being a deciding factor. There's a difference playing in a tough conference like the ACC or Big East, playing against big time compeition and playing in the Big Sky Conference against Northern Arizona, Portland State, Eastern Washington, and the ever popular hotbed for producing bigtime NBA players, Idaho State. I'm sure there are countless guys in that conference that produce big numbers year end and year out that don't get mentioned as being lottery selections, and there's a reason why. I think Lillard will be a solid pro, maybe a Rodney Stuckey lite, but I believe we have better options on our team than Lillard.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    didn't Steph curry play in a division with not much competition?

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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    didn't Steph curry play in a division with not much competition?
    Steph Curry played against much better competition. He also played against non-conference schools with big time programs like Michigan, UNC, UCLA, Georgetown. He also took his team to the Elite 8 in his sophmore year. When did Lillard do something like that? I'll wait for a bit while you to dig up that information.

  13. #33
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    when did i say anything about Lillard? I'm just askin

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    When I think of Holiday, all I see is him getting owned by D12 last season.

    dumbest play of his short career so far, was him trying to out rebound D12.



  15. #35
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    who cares? everyone gets dunked on. So you don't want Holiday cause he got dunked on by D12? thats the stupidest reason one could ever have

  16. #36
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    who cares? everyone gets dunked on. So you don't want Holiday cause he got dunked on by D12? thats the stupidest reason one could ever have
    Who the fuck said I didn't want him, learn to read, he's obviously a good player but not very memorable one. The only thing I remember of him was that play, it was the only one to my memory of bad play from him, so that must mean he's good right......
    Last edited by e2thed; Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 at 01:35 PM.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Steph Curry played against much better competition. He also played against non-conference schools with big time programs like Michigan, UNC, UCLA, Georgetown. He also took his team to the Elite 8 in his sophmore year. When did Lillard do something like that? I'll wait for a bit while you to dig up that information.
    At the end of the day competition doesn't really matter. It's all about how your game translate to the NBA. Westbrook and Jrue Holiday both had sub-par careers in a big conference but still got drafted fairly high and contribute at the next level. Enes Kanter didn't even play a game but, scout knew his game would translate. Damian Lillard has three things that translate to automatically to the NBA quickness, shooting, and work ethic.

    Once again I'd rather keep Jerryd Bayless but, what if he want too much money? Damian Lillard would come in and fill in that scoring punch off the bench at a cheaper cost than Bayless and Dragic.
    Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 at 02:58 PM.
    @Chr1st1anL

  18. #38
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    At the end of the day competition doesn't really matter. It's all about how your game translate to the NBA. Westbrook and Jrue Holiday both had sub-par careers in a big conference but still got drafted fairly high and contribute at the next level. Enes Kanter didn't even play a game but, scout knew his game would translate. Damian Lillard has three things that translate to automatically to the NBA quickness, shooting, and work ethic.

    Once again I'd rather keep Jerryd Bayless but, what if he want too much money? Damian Lillard would come in and fill in that scoring punch off the bench at a cheaper cost than Bayless and Dragic.
    Exactly Lillard has NBA qualities that will translate to the NBA game if you can't see this because of the competition he face then you can say the same thing for George Hill and Paul George. Yet almost all of you would want them.

  19. #39
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    At the end of the day competition doesn't really matter. It's all about how your game translate to the NBA. Westbrook and Jrue Holiday both had sub-par careers in a big conference but still got drafted fairly high and contribute at the next level. Enes Kanter didn't even play a game but, scout knew his game would translate. Damian Lillard has three things that translate to automatically to the NBA quickness, shooting, and work ethic.
    So my opinion is that I'm not sold on him because he played against inferior competition. For me, that plays a major role in deciding if this guy is right for us. You want to have a guy who has played against solid competition - or else his skills and numbers seem somewhat skewed. In regards to Westbrook, he put up some decent numbers as a sophmore and garnered PAC-10 DPOY. As for Holiday, he only played 1 season at UCLA, and his point guard skills weren't put up on display because UCLA used Darren Collison at the 1.
    My opinion on Lillard could change when workouts transpire (but I doubt it). You're right that he's got good work ethic and that he can shoot - both things going for him, but we're not looking for a shoot-first PG.

    You know how stongly opposed I am to having this team choosing Lillard? I would seriously consider following some other team if it happens. That goes for Perry Jones too.

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    Quote DG88 wrote: View Post
    Exactly Lillard has NBA qualities that will translate to the NBA game if you can't see this because of the competition he face then you can say the same thing for George Hill and Paul George. Yet almost all of you would want them.
    Did I ever say that Lillard wouldn't be a good pro? Hill is a sold player. Would I want him on this team? Perhaps..and over Calderon? No. His point guard skills leave a lot to be desired. As it stands, he's an undersized 2. We have one of those. His name is Jerryd Bayless. As for George, he has talent, but he's yet to put it together. Let's wait for that before annointing him as a fantastic player.

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