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Thread: The season is over, forget the positives, what were the NEGATIVES?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default The season is over, forget the positives, what were the NEGATIVES?

    We have a positive thread, so we need a negative thread.

    The win/loss results and injuries are obvious - I'm not sure that needs to be discussed but if you feel different go ahead!

    But what other negatives do we see moving forward?


    *Any Bargnani comments should go in Bargnani thread*

    *EDIT*

    Actually, Bargnani comments are good here but if the thread gets overrun they will be moved to Everything Bargnani.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue May 1st, 2012 at 02:03 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Overall, I was expecting much more improvement from Davis and DeMar. Although they both seemed to have salvaged their seasons late, they still have a lot of work ahead of them before they can be relied on to contribute big minutes on a playoff-calibre team.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    For me:

    1) DeRozan's supposed progress defensively was not enough to justify optimism, in my opinion.

    2) With a more structured offense, Amir seemed to struggle (this could have also been due to Bargnani's absence and less room to operate).

    3) Bayless did not prove to be starter material.

    4) JJ showed much progress but I wonder if he thinks he is better than he really is.

    5) ED regressed in my opinion.

    6) Bargnani did little to eliminate the his 'enigma' status.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Biggest Negatives from the season:

    -Bargnani's injury
    -Bayless: lack of progression, plus injuries
    -Ed Davis NOT showing up with the new bulky frame that was promised
    -Demar's inability to hit 3's at a more consistent rate
    -Winning enough to lose out on a higher shot at top lottery picks!
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    1) Definitely Bargnani not getting a large enough sample-size to show whether his improved play was legitimate change or just a hot streak.
    2) None of DeRozan, Bayless, or ED taking a real step forward.
    3) Not doing poorly enough for a high draft pick.
    4) Johnson raising some questions about his maturity and coachability despite playing at a decent level.
    5) The fact that we actually had Butler on this team for a half season!
    6) Alibi not getting enough time against NBA-level competition for anyone to say whether he's worth continuing as a project (the fact that Casey didn't give him the court time shows which way they're leaning, but I would have liked to get a better look as a fan).
    7) Losing to the worst team in NBA history twice... doesn't really have any implications for future years, but man does it piss me off.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Biggest Negatives from the season:

    -Bargnani's injury
    -Bayless: lack of progression, plus injuries
    -Ed Davis NOT showing up with the new bulky frame that was promised
    -Demar's inability to hit 3's at a more consistent rate
    -Winning enough to lose out on a higher shot at top lottery picks!
    Thank you for stealing my post before I could type it. What am I supposed to do now? jk

    Bargs, Ed and DeMar are my primary concerns though. While Bargnani played well those first 14 games, he did nothing when he came back. I know, let's give him ANOTHER season to bring us hope! :-| I'm not opposed to trading he or DeMar in the right deal.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    The last 3 wins meant nothing in determining the quality of the team, its heart and the obvious effect Casey had on it. This has cost us at least 5 spots. This was supposed to be the "payback" to fans of the team who knew it was going to be a trying season and yet supported it. Most disappointing. I know I know #2-3 is no guarantee before the lottery but....

    Everything else negative pales in comparison because it was all in drip drip form while the last 2 weeks just happened and we end up picking 8th.

    Sigh

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    For me:
    3) Bayless did not prove to be starter material.
    On the other hand though, I'm not sure he played himself out of a Starting Role in the Future.


    But I'd say Ed Davis was the biggest Let down for me personally. Expected much, much more.
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. Thatís nice." Terrence Ross

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    The last 3 wins meant nothing in determining the quality of the team, its heart and the obvious effect Casey had on it. This has cost us at least 5 spots. This was supposed to be the "payback" to fans of the team who knew it was going to be a trying season and yet supported it. Most disappointing. I know I know #2-3 is no guarantee before the lottery but....

    Everything else negative pales in comparison because it was all in drip drip form while the last 2 weeks just happened and we end up picking 8th.

    Sigh
    Payback to the fans would have been half-assing it and throwing away games?

    As a fan, I'm not sure I would have appreciated that any more than our Lottery position.
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. Thatís nice." Terrence Ross

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Payback to the fans would have been half-assing it and throwing away games?

    As a fan, I'm not sure I would have appreciated that any more than our Lottery position.
    It is a tough situation to be in. I can understand the tankers perspective and also the posters feeling unless a superstar is drafted, there is no hope.

    I can only hope that some sort of karma exists and rewards Casey and the players for playing balls out 98% of the time this season.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    1) Lack of individual development:
    - DeRozan (3pt shooting, dribbling, defense and just taking control of games on offense)
    - Davis (help defense seemed to regress, didn't bulk up and that shot is Fugly)
    - Bayless (another year, some extended time starting, and no improvements as the floor general type of PG)
    - Amir (seriously, what the hell was wrong with him? not sure if it's his heart, head or both, but he just wasn't right)
    - JJ (the guy hustles and love him some help defense, but he still thinks he's LeBron-lite or something when he gets the ball)
    - Alabi (the NJ D-league game aside, the guy hustles and his height/reach pulls down rebounds, but he looks new to basketball)

    2) Bargnani's calf injury appearing to be a potentially chronic injury

    3) The draft - what happened to a top-5, franchise changing talent being the reward to the team and its fans for yet another hopeless rebuilding/building season? The Raps can't even tank/build properly! May 30th can change this, but I'm not holding my breath...

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Payback to the fans would have been half-assing it and throwing away games?

    As a fan, I'm not sure I would have appreciated that any more than our Lottery position.
    It depends on how the fans view the situation. Short term (regular season wins in a non-playoff season), versus long-term rewards (enhancing the odds of drafting "elite" talent, and thus improving the team for many years to come).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    1. Demar and Ed
    2. Low draft pick ( not saying they should of tanked, but they do deserve a higher draft pick )

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Dwayne Casey gave an interview on the FAN yesterday with McCown and was asked something along the lines of "who developed this year into something you didn't think they would be". The first two players Casey talked about were: Barganini (27 yrs old) and Jose Calderon (30 yrs old). Derozan was mentioned last and - you can listen to the interview and correct me if I'm wrong - I didn't actually hear Casey talk about any improvement but rather what needed to improve.

    This highlights the single biggest negative to me and the reason I think this team is not near as close as some think: in a development year, you can't name one young player who blossomed, overachieved, stood out or excelled. That tells you everything you need to know about the lack of talent on this roster and the dearth of any young potential stars. That bodes ill for the future.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Payback to the fans would have been half-assing it and throwing away games?

    As a fan, I'm not sure I would have appreciated that any more than our Lottery position.
    I have never advocated for the team to throw games and dont expect them to. They dont give a rats ass as self respecting pros. I was trying to respond to the "negatives" of the season question in the op. And payback (in quotes) was used as a euphemism for a gift unintended. After all the team was built to lose.

    Did u seriously expect the Raptors with the injuries to beat the Celtics & Hawks. The Nets threw that last game. This is what happened re the 3 games I referred to. Would u have thought less of the team if Boston and Atlanta had beaten the Raps? Wouldn't you rather be in a position to draft Davis rather than Sullinger or PJ3 or Lillard at #8 if the stars were aligned right for those games? It didnt happen and it is disappointing/the negative for me. That is all I was expressing...not that the Raptors should have thrown any games.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    The last 3 wins meant nothing in determining the quality of the team, its heart and the obvious effect Casey had on it. This has cost us at least 5 spots.
    Winning Culture!!!! When the Raps are in the playoffs 3 years from now and they are 2 down with 9 secs left, Jonas Valanciunas and the other 4 guys on the floor (none of whom play for the Raptors right now) will recall that win against Boston in April 2012 and use the experience gained on that day to execute the out-of-bounds play to get a clean look.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Winning Culture!!!! When the Raps are in the playoffs 3 years from now and they are 2 down with 9 secs left, Jonas Valanciunas and the other 4 guys on the floor (none of whom play for the Raptors right now) will recall that win against Boston in April 2012 and use the experience gained on that day to execute the out-of-bounds play to get a clean look.
    Thanks, now I have to clean coffee off my monitor! lol priceless

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Winning Culture!!!! When the Raps are in the playoffs 3 years from now and they are 2 down with 9 secs left, Jonas Valanciunas and the other 4 guys on the floor (none of whom play for the Raptors right now) will recall that win against Boston in April 2012 and use the experience gained on that day to execute the out-of-bounds play to get a clean look.
    +1

    Not one of them.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    ...This highlights the single biggest negative to me and the reason I think this team is not near as close as some think: in a development year, you can't name one young player who blossomed, overachieved, stood out or excelled. That tells you everything you need to know about the lack of talent on this roster and the dearth of any young potential stars. That bodes ill for the future.
    Soooo, from a completely Pollyanna-ish perspective (look it up on Wikipedia kids) you could say that the players actually showed some progression at the end of the season despite being forced to go the whole off-season without contact from any of the coaching or training staff, and despite the almost complete lack of practice time during the season to correct team problems. And even though there was increased risk of (and actual) injuries, improvement occurred.

    Imagine how they are going to shoot forward in their development with a regular off-season, coaches attention, recovery time between conditioning and strengthening sessions and a proper training camp.

    So their lack of improvement showing is hardly a disappointment.

    Can't really think of anything that disappointed me this season. In fact it was the first season I have enjoyed watching games in the last 2 or 3 years.
    Last edited by Puffer; Tue May 1st, 2012 at 04:37 PM.

  20. #20
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    It didnt happen and it is disappointing/the negative for me. That is all I was expressing...not that the Raptors should have thrown any games.
    Apologies. Misinterpreted your post.

    In this case, I absolutely agree.
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. Thatís nice." Terrence Ross

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