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Thread: Jose Watch 2012: Colangelo hints Jose will not be amnestied (#46)

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Jose Watch 2012: Colangelo hints Jose will not be amnestied (#46)

    I always thought Mo Pete was going to be a "Raptors Lifer", as in playing his entire career with the Raptors but then he plateaued, then he regressed, then he couldn't accept his new reality, then he no longer fit the team and then he was moved. Fans have been on again, off again about their loyaty to Calderon for years now but honestly, he has the best shot at being the first Raptors Lifer and here's why.


    • He's still got a lot left in the tank.
    • He's humble and a team player.
    • He likes being a leader.
    • He wants to win and the Raptors could be on the dawn of a golden era.
    • The Raptors are in need of a solid veteran PG and no legit successor to Calderon is in view.


    Just like Mo Pete, things could change for Calderon and the Raptors, making them incompatible going forward. They also need to get over the hurdle of 2013 free agency if he's here then but I think he will be. As for the 2012-13 season, this puts it into perspective:
    Calderon’s future is a topic of debate among fans, but no one connected with the team has suggested they’re looking to move him. He’ll be 32 years old when the 2012-13 season opens with one year and just over $10 million left on his deal. With no successor on the roster, and coach Casey not enthralled with the thought of a rookie point guard for his team even if one could be found in a guard-thin draft, there’s no reason to think Calderon won’t play out his deal.
    Source: thestar.com

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    The other thing going for Jose is that instead of holding on for and extra couple of years in the NBA and bouncing from team to team, he can go back to Spain and play out the twilight of his career when ready.

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    There is one difference between Mo & Jose....the contract...Mo never had the "big" contract and as I remember it the Raps were not prepared to pay the asking price for his extension. When F/agency came he got money he couldnt pass up...cannot blame him and frankly the Raptors as well. It was an amicable parting.

    It would be terrific if Jose stayed but his current contract is a bit onerous considering what the team is doing and the new reality of a stiffer cap. This has probably been the big negative with fans who wouldnt mind to see him traded etc. If he is able to temper his money needs in the next deal we should seriously consider keeping him...at least for a couple of years say on a 3 yr extension. Or, if it is possible maybe it could be arranged to get him off the books sometime next year and get something for him in a trade to a deep playoff team and then resign him as a f/a. AFter that he would probably ready to go back to Spain when he is in the 35-36 age area and the Raps in a good place

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I think/hope that Calderon could very well become the first Raptors lifer. If the Raps can draft/sign a young pass-first PG-of-the-future, Calderon would be a fantastic mentor and eventual backup. I could see him signing a 2-3 year extension in the $4-6M range. If the Raps couldn't get enough value for him at the trade deadline, I doubt they'd get significantly more this year.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    There is one difference between Mo & Jose....the contract...Mo never had the "big" contract and as I remember it the Raps were not prepared to pay the asking price for his extension. When F/agency came he got money he couldnt pass up...cannot blame him and frankly the Raptors as well. It was an amicable parting.
    Mo Pete had a worse contract than Jose Calderon when you consider level of play in the back ends of their deals. Calderon's contract is a non-issue. He has one year left.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Mo Pete had a worse contract than Jose Calderon when you consider level of play in the back ends of their deals. Calderon's contract is a non-issue. He has one year left.
    Mo Pete's contract in Toronto or New Orleans?

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Toronto. It all comes down to what do you value more, paying someone to do nothing or overpaying someone to do one of the most important jobs on the floor.

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    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    It would be pretty cool. It'll all depend on what kind of contract he's looking for for the last 5 years of his career.

    But more importantly: how about big Val as a lifer -- la Tim Duncan.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Lets see him play in the NBA first.

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    Calderone may like being a leader but I question his leadership ability. He may want to win[who doesn't?] but has he ever won an individual award, gone to the all-star game or won anything besides his Spanish medal? His game on both ends of the court has been analyzed in great detail with some fans loving it some hating it but most are ambivalent and would accept a trade involving him. If the Raptors are on the dawn of a "golden era" I assume it will involve winning, something Jose in seven years of trying knows little about.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Calderone may like being a leader but I question his leadership ability. He may want to win[who doesn't?] but has he ever won an individual award, gone to the all-star game or won anything besides his Spanish medal? His game on both ends of the court has been analyzed in great detail with some fans loving it some hating it but most are ambivalent and would accept a trade involving him. If the Raptors are on the dawn of a "golden era" I assume it will involve winning, something Jose in seven years of trying knows little about.
    What do you question about his leadership ability in particular?

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    If Calderon would take a pay cut at the end of this next season...do maybe 4 - 6 million a year, I would have no issue keeping him around. Because in that range you can justify him mentoring someone, starting when needed but also being a really solid backup. I don't think we can continue with him at 10 - 11 million though. If Calderon could accept and hold on to being the backup it would really add a lot of depth to our bench.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Calderon is a leader and a class act. There are two things I question about Calderon (look for his own shot a bit more and defense) but leadership doesn't even factor on the list.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What do you question about his leadership ability in particular?
    I think hes implying that you have to go to an allstar game or have prestigious awards to be a leader... you know, kinda like Vince, Tmac and Bosh...

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote themasao wrote: View Post
    It would be pretty cool. It'll all depend on what kind of contract he's looking for for the last 5 years of his career.

    But more importantly: how about big Val as a lifer -- la Tim Duncan.
    JV is gonna be a really good player, but Apollo is right. You are only ever one injury or temper tantrum away from washing out. Let's see him play with the best in the world before we start any Tim Duncan comparisons

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote SitnonDfence wrote: View Post
    I think hes implying that you have to go to an allstar game or have prestigious awards to be a leader... you know, kinda like Vince, Tmac and Bosh...
    So true but often your leader isn't your star. Mike Bibby (Atlanta) Derek Fisher (LA although Kobe would be co-captain there) Battier in Miami. Magloire in Toronto

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Toronto. It all comes down to what do you value more, paying someone to do nothing or overpaying someone to do one of the most important jobs on the floor.
    Oh I am not so sure that Mo was doing "nothing". He was the primary 3pt option especially after Carter left and we had to replace him at the mid level price (which is what Mo got from the Hornets) with that great success story Kapono. Now if there was ever an overpaid player for doing nothing! And I am not advocating MO was worth those dollars...but he got it. Yes Jose has a more important role as the starting PG but this has been his best yr and I would say the only one that matches imo the monetary value of his contract. The previous two yrs. he was much overpaid (yes he had injuries and a shit team/coach).

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    If Calderon would take a pay cut at the end of this next season...do maybe 4 - 6 million a year, I would have no issue keeping him around. Because in that range you can justify him mentoring someone, starting when needed but also being a really solid backup. I don't think we can continue with him at 10 - 11 million though. If Calderon could accept and hold on to being the backup it would really add a lot of depth to our bench.
    You're going to have an issue then because he has another season left on contract. I'm not sure what the big deal is about that final year. We're not talking about an Eddy Curry type player being owed $40M or anything. After that he's going to get paid what the market demands. My guess is full MLE on the low end.

    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Yes Jose has a more important role as the starting PG but this has been his best yr and I would say the only one that matches imo the monetary value of his contract. The previous two yrs. he was much overpaid (yes he had injuries and a shit team/coach).
    What is the criteria you're basing this statement on?

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    Mostly his credibility. At one time I believed he had a promising career but he has failed to deliver the goods. A real leader brings with him the ability to bring about change for the better. Jose doesn't make those around him better as you can see the teams winning% is the same with him or without him. As a leader on a young team they have to trust that he understands their individual abilities and will compliment and reinforce their skills. The tandem of JC and AB doesn't instill the problems for opposing teams that their most optimistic fans think and a change has to be made.

    Sorry forgot to click reply with quote but this is in reply to Apollo at 12:22.
    Last edited by j bean; Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 at 02:03 PM.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Mostly his credibility. At one time I believed he had a promising career but he has failed to deliver the goods. A real leader brings with him the ability to bring about change for the better. Jose doesn't make those around him better as you can see the teams winning% is the same with him or without him. As a leader on a young team they have to trust that he understands their individual abilities and will compliment and reinforce their skills. The tandem of JC and AB doesn't instill the problems for opposing teams that their most optimistic fans think and a change has to be made.

    Sorry forgot to click reply with quote but this is in reply to Apollo at 12:22.

    Jose makes everyone around him a lot better. A lot of them just aren't very good to begin with.

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